Seriously guys: tanks are a mess

[Nenjin]

Having actually talked to my crew members, I agree. It's really fun and the extra set of eyes are invaluable.

 

[DiedTrying]

Played as T34 on Red October yesterday...I did well, a few tank kills before their team apparently gave up on that class slot.

But good lord it was awful. If my right track was sitting on top of a brick and I tried to shoot the cannon, the shell would be a good 50% off target. I kept getting stuck on the dumbest things (Large spindles of steel cable for instance...had to blow the spindles up to free myself) and I had a "shootout" with a Pz4....His gun was aiming right at me. But when he fired the shell actually originated a good 10 yards to his left and it kept striking a railroad car! All the while I was trying to adjust my sights to compensate for my shell firing about 2 inches down and 2 inches to the left of the gun sight...all at about 80 yards range...

This must surely be fixed in the final release; but it still amazes me that they spent all this time on 2 tanks and they are barely playable in the beta.

 

[Hypno Toad]

My main concern is that TW doesn't understand how bad it is when a shell pentrates armor. You get molten metal, spalling and a shockwave pass through the tank if a shell penetrates the armor. In RO2 your guy just says "oh no, we're hit" and then you resume as if nothing happened.

With the fully modeled interior, I was hoping that if a shell penetrated, you'd be momentarily switched to a first person view of the interior if a shell penetrated and see the crew covering themselves from the shrapnel and smoke.

 

[DiedTrying]

honestly, I can never tell when I get hit.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Besides fixing some of the bugs, I personally think that penetration/spalling should result in more crew deaths on average, thus 'disabling' the tank faster.

 

[Nezzer]

My main concern is that TW doesn't understand how bad it is when a shell pentrates armor. You get molten metal, spalling and a shockwave pass through the tank if a shell penetrates the armor. In RO2 your guy just says "oh no, we're hit" and then you resume as if nothing happened.

With the fully modeled interior, I was hoping that if a shell penetrated, you'd be momentarily switched to a first person view of the interior if a shell penetrated and see the crew covering themselves from the shrapnel and smoke.

Pretty much this :IS2:

 

[sgtlongbow]

my take on the tanks is this-
tanks get stuck too easy and have very little power to move

co axle gunner is short sighted and cant hit anywhere near as good as a real player

hit boxes for tanks need work

open hates don't have effects on crewman or tank.

unable to direct living crewman to take x spot in tank.

direction of fire incorrect on tank damage hud

he switched to ap when you move to other position.

sad really sad =:IS2:

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

There's also no indication that T-34s need to try and move as much as possible. Therefore, players who don't know better sit and go head to head against the PZ IVs, which is suicide. Then they complain that the Russian tank sucks. There needs to be SOMETHING in game that tells you to try to flank the Germans. Rather than it be an annoyed person who knows better, which half the people won't even read his messages in chat anyway.

First. The T-34 can perfectly handle the Pz IV also at long ranges. Maybe even better, cosindering that at long ranges T-34's glacis is an hard target. I do not like when people say that the other players don't know how to play, when those people do NOT know how to play.

The damage system doesn't seem to be working right. It feels like Ostfront on day 1 when the code somehow got broken - that is, it plays like CoD: UO tanks with HP system instead of a damage model.

Yeah. Some (many) bugs. Yep.

I can understand needing multiple shots to the front to destroy a tank, as its not as easy to hit the right spot.

Pz IV has 50mm of armour all along the front, that, except uber-long ranges, it isn't really an hard target for F-34 (angulation of course makes it much more harder or almost impossible to pierce).

How does that work? And why does the commander in the T-34 get killed so often? I know those early T-34 models had a shot trap between the hull and the turret, so why would it kill the commander 10x as often as jamming the turret or blowing the turret off completely?

I noted that the commander dies MUCH MUCH more than the loader.

Balance is a dirty word around these parts. But there's easily balanceable problem right now, and that is the number of AP shells each tank gets. Panzers get 34, T-34s get 19. Why? The T-34s get about 50 HE shells. What's the reason for having so few AP rounds? Its obviously not due to a small ammunition cache if you can fit FIFTY HE shells along with the 19 AP ones. The T-34s have to fire more shots per kill than the Germans, and yet they get less ammunition. I thought it was because teh T-34s couldn't hold a lot of ammo, but when I saw all the HE rounds in there, it made me wonder what was going on. The game doesn't account for poor quality Soviet armor, or ammunition shortages, so why would it account for AP round shortages?

Maybe it's the realistic load out.

Here's another problem that is kind of a balance issue: The T-34 has zero commander vision slits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Tank_Periscope_MK.IVhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Tank_Periscope_MK.IV

But i dunno if it was on the 1942 model.

There is also, as far as I know, no way to move the turret while unhatched.

Left click of the mouse in the wanted direction.

 

[dogbadger]

Maybe the devs would be smart in hiring Amizaur (AB) or Shurek (DH) to rip everything out and start over again with the tanks.

Why would they do that? they can easily do anything those 2 have done themselves.

I understand that if you like the DH/AB systems why you would suggest Twi do something similar, the reason they haven't is presumably because they don't want to - or at least didn't think it was worth it - as if they wanted to they surely would have done.

 

[Frostedfire]

(...skip 80 posts of discussion, replying directly to the OP)

Maybe it's the realistic load out.

it's an enemy at the gates loadout on the tanking map though - one of the tanks gets a gun, the other just carries a spare 20 ap shells and transfers to the first tank when all the crew gets killed . You'd think they knew they'd be fighting mostly panzers and change the ammo loadout accordingly...

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

it's an enemy at the gates loadout on the tanking map though - one of the tanks gets a gun, the other just carries a spare 20 ap shells and transfers to the first tank when all the crew gets killed . You'd think they knew they'd be fighting mostly panzers and change the ammo loadout accordingly...

Eheh yeah, i skipped all the answers because i had no time to read all, sry

Btw, lot of answers come from people that have no idea of what they're talking about....

Just look at the thousands threads about tanks.......i'm forced to be constantly in "facepalm mode"....

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

You do have the periscope. Scroll off the gunsight, and right click. It'll look almost exactly like the gunsight, except the gun won't be on the right, and your view will be higher. You'll be able to look around 360 without moving the turret. If you hit USE, you'll link to the turret, and can aim and fire the F-34 cannon directly from that position. You can't fire the coaxial MG though.

Wow you serious? I had no idea. I've seen that thing when you are changing your view from the gun to unhatch, its an optic thing that has an eye floating in front of it but I figured that was just the gunsight. This is another reason why I think there needs to be more developer to player contact about how the tanks work. Maybe people should have to use gameplay experience to learn to flank the panzers. But really why should we have to be completely oblivious to this periscope? I don't think even conscripts would be thrown into tanks without being told how to use their periscope, especially during stalingrad in urban settings where tanks are hella vulnerable...and that goes for the other controls. Clicking to turn the cannon to the desired spot included. Maybe they will release manuals like they did for Ostfront on release. That way at least people who take five minutes maybe will be able to see how to use various tank controls.

Just got done with a session on redoktober. The map is near impossible for the Allies it seems...I played some tank commander before I forgot, the fact that we're expected to do ANYTHING in the horrible terrain on that map is a joke really...maybe the tank gameplay gets better the further back the Axis get pushed but really now, how many times has anyone seen the russians get the 2nd objective? I did maybe once, the one time I played as German on that map. But yea. The extreme zoom of the tank cannon and the periscope makes that map impossible to traverse around really. by the time I find my way, the German tank has respawned and gets a nice flank shot at me and I'm already damaged from our last fight. There's about two places the Russians can use their AT guns and get a flank shot on the Panzer on that first objective, and the German tank has to really move pretty far up before they can have a chance at blowing it up with their PTRS.

 

[Graphic]

T-34 is officially a POS in this game. When I'm in the PzIV I feel unstoppable unless I'm reckless.

No one on allies should even bother picking the Tank Commander class on Fallen Heroes. Better off just throwing smoke in front of the PzIV.

Which is ridiculous. The tanks were pretty much equal in a general sense.

Also, it bears repeating: WHY DOES THE T-34 ONLY HAVE A COUPLE AP SHELLS AND 6,000 HE SHELLS? If its the historical load-out, I don't care the slightest bit. Change it. It's a PPSh drum mag moment.

 

[Ambient]

Tank combat in this game is no better then that in World of Tanks.

And for a game thats claiming its all about realism...well its quite gross.

The detail to the tank itself is nice, but the combat part such as hit detection, tak warping, and dmg values need some serious overhaul.

 

[Boz]

They had to make a compromise because you also have to drive the tank if no other players are in the tank with you. You can't use WASD for driving and shooting at the same time.
I also agree that it was more "real" to use WASD for shooting but that's the price you pay for "being" a tank



Yes, round bouncing was fun and real. Maybe they will give it back to us.
Anyway that map has bigger issues now.

Eh, I would prefer it the way it was in RO1. Using the mouse to control the turret just plain sucks. They have to find another way to make it all work. I would like to see it go back to how it was in RO1 rather than this at the moment.

 

[PGD03]

You and the other guy who mentioned this have a fair point but, I'm worried people may not stick around long enough to learn to flank. Maybe that's a good thing though. Probably better to have a few servers with vets throughout the lineups rather than a bunch of new people sitting on a hill with an inferior tank wondering why their invincible T-34 is getting destroyed so much. Its still annoying when you see the Russians sitting doing nothing and there's only a few people attempting to flank and cap objectives.

Where did you get that T-34 is inferior compared to PzIV. Only later versions of PzIV had more frontal armor then T-34. But in '42 armor of T-34 was still good. In this game T-34 gets one hit even by AT rifles and that's load of BS.

The reason T-34/76 did so bad against germans irl was probably bad view from turret and inexperienced crewmembers.

 

[Nenjin]

Well, in this game, they've got about half the armor of Panzers it feels like. When playing Panzers, I will get an enemy crew kill with almost every shot on the front armor of a T34. It literally only takes between 2 to 3 shots to kill a T34's crew, and there for the tank, from the front.

It's almost double that to see results on a Panzer, firing on its flank. You can kill a Panzer with a T34 but it feels like David vs. Goliath, and the T34 getting the drop on the Panzer is only slightly evening things out.

PS- I really wish that periscope information had been covered in the tanking tutorial.

 

[Graphic]

You can kill a Panzer with a T34 but it feels like David vs. Goliath

Exactly. Or to put it into tank terms, it feels like the T-34 is a T-34, but the PzIV is a Tiger.

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

Every shot to the T-34 turret still kills the gunner. I'm getting tired of that, I'm getting tired of shooting tanks fifteen times until they explode. I'm tired of not being able to scuttle my tank when the gunner is the only one alive and my engine is destroyed. And not being able to type suicide in console and die and be respawned. I'm also tired of AT gunners just being able to spam their rifle magazine over and over. I'm tired of this game being a lagfest in which hitting a moving target is near impossible, which translates over to tanks when you try to kill infantry sprinting horizontally. I guess I'm tried of tanks. Yet there are those times when I get kills in the T-34 and the axis go HOW DID A T-34 JUST TAKE ON TWO PANZERS when I actually have fun. The games coding just needs to be fixed it seems like. But the lagfest that this game is, I don't know that will ever be fixed and I hope it doesn't frustrate me so much in tank and infantry combat that I just uninstall.

 

[Major_Day]

You think the tank lag is bad just now? just wait til they introduce the troop carriers with 6/8 ppl. in them, one minute they'll be over here, next minute they'll be over.............................................................................................................................................there:IS2:.................................................or maybe there.:IS2: