Seriously guys: tanks are a mess

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EvilAmericanMan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 27, 2005
1,331
168
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29
Palm Coast, FL
I hate to say it, but I'm not impressed at all by the tanks. First of all, there's no communication to the players as to whats going on behind the scenes with tanks. What happens when x gets damaged for example. There's also no indication that T-34s need to try and move as much as possible. Therefore, players who don't know better sit and go head to head against the PZ IVs, which is suicide. Then they complain that the Russian tank sucks. There needs to be SOMETHING in game that tells you to try to flank the Germans. Rather than it be an annoyed person who knows better, which half the people won't even read his messages in chat anyway.

The damage system doesn't seem to be working right. It feels like Ostfront on day 1 when the code somehow got broken - that is, it plays like CoD: UO tanks with HP system instead of a damage model. Why can't a T-34 destroy a Panzer in one hit to the side? Especially when aiming at the part in between the track rollers that you are supposed to hit to destroy the ammo cache. I can understand needing multiple shots to the front to destroy a tank, as its not as easy to hit the right spot. But when I shoot the engine of a PZ IV in the side ten times, hear penetration sounds every time and it doesn't get blown up, something is wrong. I've even been in a point blank cluster**** against a PZ IV, and I was the one that survived even though we got about an even amount of shots on each other. How does that work? And why does the commander in the T-34 get killed so often? I know those early T-34 models had a shot trap between the hull and the turret, so why would it kill the commander 10x as often as jamming the turret or blowing the turret off completely?

Balance is a dirty word around these parts. But there's easily balanceable problem right now, and that is the number of AP shells each tank gets. Panzers get 34, T-34s get 19. Why? The T-34s get about 50 HE shells. What's the reason for having so few AP rounds? Its obviously not due to a small ammunition cache if you can fit FIFTY HE shells along with the 19 AP ones. The T-34s have to fire more shots per kill than the Germans, and yet they get less ammunition. I thought it was because teh T-34s couldn't hold a lot of ammo, but when I saw all the HE rounds in there, it made me wonder what was going on. The game doesn't account for poor quality Soviet armor, or ammunition shortages, so why would it account for AP round shortages?

Here's another problem that is kind of a balance issue: The T-34 has zero commander vision slits. That's how it was, and thats how it is in the game. That's good. Whats not good is the amount of bobbling there is when you're using binoculars while unhatched. I suppose this problem is in both tanks. Its almost impossible to get a reading on that long range target to see if its a tank or not when its bobbling so much. There is also, as far as I know, no way to move the turret while unhatched. I don't get this either. I'm not saying i know how to figure out what buttons you need to key to rotate it, I'm just saying I think there needs to be a way to rotate while unhatched, especially in the T-34. Another problem I have with the turret is that its really sensitive. Its hard to get your gun on target on a stupid enemy tank that decides to rush you and your two teammates. I don't see why we are basically rewarding stupid tactics. Yes its hard for the enemy tank to aim as well, but because its mapped to the mouse now so that you can move while gunning, it makes it really hard to aim the gun and swing it around at a target at anything but long range.

Basically I'm not happy with the way the tanks work right now, but naturally this game has immense potential to be really fun based on TWI's track record. :IS2: Anyone else unhappy? Wehrmacht fanbois who only play with the PZ IVs need not apply here please, thank you :p
 

Bowcaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
186
32
0
Why can't a T-34 destroy a Panzer in one hit to the side? Especially when aiming at the part in between the track rollers that you are supposed to hit to destroy the ammo cache. I can understand needing multiple shots to the front to destroy a tank, as its not as easy to hit the right spot.

It is actually a lo easier to kill a tank from the front than from the side. Don't ask me why, but I just aim for the driver every time. Boom, insta-kill. I always play as the Russians and it works for me against the PZIV, and they have done the same thing against me in my T-34. The side on the other hand... Aim for the ammo cash and you might get lucky after 7-8 shots :p.

BTW: Is there any reason to ever use HE instead of AP rounds? I know what each stands for, but I don't which situations one would choose HE over AP.
 
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Darkseed

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2005
458
82
0
Sweden
There needs to be SOMETHING in game that tells you to try to flank the Germans.

How about experience? In the real war there were less experienced tankers as well, if they survived long enough they'd learn these things first hand. Same thing will happen in the game, except they'll learn from their mistakes without actually dying.

Balance is a dirty word around these parts. But there's easily balanceable problem right now, and that is the number of AP shells each tank gets. Panzers get 34, T-34s get 19. Why? The T-34s get about 50 HE shells. What's the reason for having so few AP rounds? Its obviously not due to a small ammunition cache if you can fit FIFTY HE shells along with the 19 AP ones. The T-34s have to fire more shots per kill than the Germans, and yet they get less ammunition. I thought it was because teh T-34s couldn't hold a lot of ammo, but when I saw all the HE rounds in there, it made me wonder what was going on. The game doesn't account for poor quality Soviet armor, or ammunition shortages, so why would it account for AP round shortages?

Probably because it's a historical ammo loadout. The tank duels we see in gumrak were fairly rare and tanks were mostly used to support infantry vs other infantry. However, if a major tank confrontation was expected they would replace a lot of the HE shells with AP instead. I wish this was the case in the game as well.
 
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dweeb

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 31, 2006
182
90
0
How about selecting your loadout yourself, at ammo-supply?

In soviet Russia ammo supply select you.

Edit: but I do agree tanks are easily the roughest around the edges part of the game right now.
 
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Bowcaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
186
32
0
HE is superb on infantry. I used it on fallen fighters....rips them to pieces

That makes sense, thanks. I actually remember HE working well for me once in RO1. Me and a lot of team mates were hammering an enemy but every round kept deflecting. I was running low on AP, so I switched to HE. Hit... BOOM. All those AP hits must have softened up the armor for me.
 

Lucan946

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
636
84
0
I agree with 95% of the OP (I think people should learn how to flank on their own). Tanks are the glitchiest part of the game right now, and Gumrak has the most problems of any maps I've played so far.
 

AmazingMilto

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 20, 2011
357
144
0
England
BTW: Is there any reason to ever use HE instead of AP rounds? I know what each stands for, but I don't which situations one would choose HE over AP.

AP means armour piercing, its good against armour.


HE means high explosive, its good against infantry, especially groups of infantry.
 

EvilAmericanMan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 27, 2005
1,331
168
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Palm Coast, FL
I agree with 95% of the OP (I think people should learn how to flank on their own). Tanks are the glitchiest part of the game right now, and Gumrak has the most problems of any maps I've played so far.

You and the other guy who mentioned this have a fair point but, I'm worried people may not stick around long enough to learn to flank. Maybe that's a good thing though. Probably better to have a few servers with vets throughout the lineups rather than a bunch of new people sitting on a hill with an inferior tank wondering why their invincible T-34 is getting destroyed so much. Its still annoying when you see the Russians sitting doing nothing and there's only a few people attempting to flank and cap objectives.
 

Nezzer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 3, 2010
2,334
1,021
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Porto Alegre, RS
I haven't play much on Russian tanks, but as a Panzer IV I'm easily recording one hit kills. The tank will only blow up if the round penetrates and hit the ammo cache, just like in real life. Once you find the weak spot, it's pretty easy to record one hit kills. It may take a while to find it. Tip for the Germans: when facing the T-34 frontal armour aim for the MG gunner sit and have fun :D
 

UsF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2010
347
44
0
Munich, Germany
On long ranges, you might want to consider HE shells, since they do not loose their effectiveness after range and might even dislodge the turret or damage vision slots. I do not know if the HE shells have that effect ingame though. They should help kill the crew through shock or damage the tank through sheer explosive force.
 

Prof

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 7, 2010
124
12
0
I once got 4 PzKpfwIV with 4 shots from my T-34. You just have to hit the ammo (under that wooden stuff on the tank's right side)
 

Centory

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 5, 2011
142
80
0
The Ammo inside is where you want to aim, so drivers seat is best way to kill
 

HLudwig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2011
227
212
0
I know it has been said a thousand times, but moving a turret with only the mouse sucks! I hate moving my mouse back and forth multiple times just to move the bloody thing. Why can't I just use the WASD to do that?

Also, why can't I see rounds bounce off tanks like we used to see in RO and DH? Now the tanks are like sponges, absorbing everything thrown at them. It feels like it's RO: BF2 instead of RO2.
 
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Bowcaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
186
32
0
On long ranges, you might want to consider HE shells, since they do not loose their effectiveness after range and might even dislodge the turret or damage vision slots. I do not know if the HE shells have that effect ingame though. They should help kill the crew through shock or damage the tank through sheer explosive force.

That's interesting... I wonder if this is implemented in the game.