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Beta Map [Beta 2] RO-Berezina

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#41
While playing I did notice a lot of the Russian side complaining of lag while I experianced none. While I did not exeperiance the lag, beta 2 does seem to run a little more rough than beta 1.

Not really sure what you can do about that other toning down the details and dealing with people ***** or leave it as is and deal with people *****. Either way I don't envy you. ;)

Specs
2.8GHz Opteron 146
2GB DDR520
6800GT
1024*768 w/ 4XAA/16XAF
 
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#42
thank you for making this map. it is deffinetely my favorite. pretty much my dream map.
i love playing as either side. tho preferably russianso i can use the PTRD. which thanks to your map im getting very good at.
and ive seen both teams win, so i know its possible. all it takes, like you said, is a little teamwork.
thanks again for making the best map going.
 
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#43
This map is very nice combined arms map.

Few flaws that could be improved:

-Performance - it runs in not-so-high fps and artillery barrages often kill weaker servers (pings go up to 250 if they are normally 60-80).

- "You are behind fronline"-stupidy. If axis capture omnipoint and you are keeping defence farther from point x, you will be get killed instanly with most unrealistic way. I say remove it, Id rather risk it, that there would be spawn killing than magical deaths.
 
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#44
Drude said:
- "You are behind fronline"-stupidy. If axis capture omnipoint and you are keeping defence farther from point x, you will be get killed instanly with most unrealistic way. I say remove it, Id rather risk it, that there would be spawn killing than magical deaths.
Click to expand...

He said he would add a 15 seconds timer so people can get out of the minefield and back to their line. It should be enough.
 
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#45
I must agree with others about Beta2 running with slightly higher pings than Beta1.
I noticed that Beta2 was running with a higher cpu load on The Wild Bunch server and as a result pings did increase overall.
I can only assume that the additional vehicles files may have caused this as Slyk has already stated this version had better optimization than Beta1.

The map is very large with a great deal of detail and this will impact on a players FPS, when you add this to a large scale event like an artillery barrage i can see why this may cause problems for some players but none the less this is one of the finest maps I ever seen for the World war 2 genre.
It is a bold attempt to realise a real-time advance upon fixed positions and does succeed magnificently especially if you are lucky enough to get two teams who really know how the map should be played and try to use realistic tactics to outwit each other.
I have only seen this happen twice and was lucky enough to be part of it both times.
Both times were probably the best gaming experiences I have ever had while playing a World War 2 First Person Shooter.
So I tip my hat to Slyk as Berezina in my opinion has raised the bar with regards to tactical gameplay in RO.
 
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#46
Very strange on the FPS drops. To summarize what I changed:
- Removed the deco layer wheat around the farm areas. Replaced this with static mesh wheat. Resized them to fit the terrain/available area.
- Added MANY more static mesh objects inside the main barn and worker houses. These buildings all have zone portals in windows/doors.
- Also added MANY statics to the trench system.
- Broke the map into three main zones. One from the Outpost ridge to the 2nd Line seems to be the problem area.
- Reduced the sight distance from 18,000 units to 16,000. This bumped my FPS about 20 points looking south from the north road area over the farm/2nd Line.

I also run at 1600x1200 all out. I hate to say 'dial back' but that would be interesting too. The issue is strange in that it comes and goes with different rounds.

Is anyone having round after round/consistantly lower FPS etc?? Right now my reaction is to start ripping non-essential statics. I will begin that on a testing version and start a baseline.

I am unsure of the BTs impact. Very possible. Just don't know enough about the engine. Perhaps our coder can streamline something as it may be a case of scripts running in the background??? Just reaching here.

The 'behind the line' volumes are set for 15 seconds in beta 2. I did not find a way to make them WAIT to turn on after a cap zone activates them... I think I could do this with trigger events but they may in turn cause more lag. I'll look into any fixes.

The final question... are PINGS higher, that you may have noticed????
 
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#48
Slyk said:
I have to wonder if you were playing Beta 1 or 2. Beta 2 has working spawn protections for the Germans nearly all the way down the map. The Russians do not and I did find a few cases where it is needed and I will apply that.
Click to expand...

Beta 2 definitely has no German spawn protection for the initial spawn point.

Some of 'em are moving, for sure. I and a few Russian teammates got killed
when the Germans capped something. =)
 
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#49
I have finally gotten to play a bit with this Beta 2 version.

- I did not notice a drop in FPS or in PINGS. I will watch this more closely.

- I did notice on more than one occasion four or five Russians die everytime when the spawns move up. Good to hear there is/will be a delay with a notice on this. This is a toss up with me. It is a shame it happens, but at the same time it may give the Russians the idea that they have to fall back to defend. As long as it doesn't interfere with retaking the Village/AT guns on the East side of the map.

- The line of sight distance in some areas is rather short. For example, depending on the angle I was looking from, while at the second line in a PZIII looking towards the village, a Russian KV adjacent to the village was either there, or it disappeared. It was probably between 200 - 300 meters away.

- The hull down positions seem a bit high for the BT-7, so the Russians will have to find a better way to use those tanks.

- That roof 'thing' is still there.....

- I didn't notice the problem with the bushes (extending from impassible woods) as far as firing, but they still appear to hinder movement a bit.

-----------

On another note, the addition of additional halftracks and the BT-7 seems to have altered gameplay a bit. This is based only on the games I was playing. The Russian tankers have to use the BT-7s more wisely than the KVs, they cannot take the punishment that the heavier tanks can. The Russians must use hit and run tactics with these to take out the halftracks and other German Tanks and leave the KVs to a more static defense holding the line, taking out infantry and the occasional armored vehicle that jumps on their sites. These new additions seemed to have favored the Germans more, their advances seemed to be a bit quicker than on Beta 1. Will have to see how this plays out when the Russians learn to use the BT-7s better.

And please don't raise the Russian reinforcement levels higher.

As a suggestion, don't worry about bots at all until maybe the final, and then only if you really want them in.

Looking forward to playing some more. I will have to be a Russian tanker to get a better handle on the new tank. :)
 
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#50
A couple thoughts:
- After talking over the T60/BT7 with Teufelhund, we decided that it is not the cause of any additional (significant) resources related lag.
- Tank Pits: Not going to change them. They are defensive in nature and best suited to the KVs. What I tried to do with Beta2 is set the stage for more maneuver warfare for the Russians in the front half of the map. A balance of KVs and BTs where the BTs can use their speed to run from flank to flank, if necessary, and they should be able to conduct some local counter-attacks in the farm and 1st line valleys. Once the fight moves to the middle and end ground I was focusing more on KVs, as I would think a commander would do...hold the heaviest tanks for the most vital defenses especially when the ground is not as easy to use in your favor..ie narrow and mostly up-hill. Best advice for BT drivers... DO NOT STOP MOVING UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO FIRE...Gunners: LEARN TO FIRE ON THE MOVE!
- Spawn Protections: There is none at the German start position and I see no need for it. If the Germans can't get out and cap both the Outpost and Crossroads in the two +/- minutes it takes a BT or KV to roll up there, they deserve the fight. If this shows to be a HUGE issue, I'll do something about it. People need to get their crap together and work as a unit and they will enjoy this map much more.
-- Also will add some deep protections for the Russians to prevent the 'end around' German tankers from camping the deeper sections of the map...flanking is one thing but running to the river and coming up the map in reverse to camp spawns is lame...personally I would ban these bastards from my server.
- Spawn Protection Timers: Currently upon ENTERING the zones, you should get a 15 second warning at 3 second intervals. I do not know what happens if you are IN a zone when it activates...sounds like insta-death. I will try to install script-event timers. I think I can implement a timer where you will get a message and delay of say 30 to 60 seconds before the volume activates. That will give the Russians a chance to get out alive.

All in all I think the gameplay issues are a learning curve. What I am most worried about are the performance issues due to modfications from Beta1 and the gameplay itself due to adding the BT prototype and reducing the front half of KVs. I think adding AT guns down the road may re-balance the map but I would rather not rely on those to fix an armor dis-balance that felt 'right' in Beta1.

I think Beta 3 maybe this coming weekend, if it will contain a lot of gameplay fixes that we can improve.

Your thoughts on these points??
 
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#51
=GG= Mr Moe said:
- The hull down positions seem a bit high for the BT-7, so the Russians will have to find a better way to use those tanks.

-----------

On another note, the addition of additional halftracks and the BT-7 seems to have altered gameplay a bit. This is based only on the games I was playing. The Russian tankers have to use the BT-7s more wisely than the KVs, they cannot take the punishment that the heavier tanks can. The Russians must use hit and run tactics with these to take out the halftracks and other German Tanks and leave the KVs to a more static defense holding the line, taking out infantry and the occasional armored vehicle that jumps on their sites. These new additions seemed to have favored the Germans more, their advances seemed to be a bit quicker than on Beta 1. Will have to see how this plays out when the Russians learn to use the BT-7s better.
Click to expand...

I agree the hull down position for the current incarnation of the BT-7 is low for the tank pit. Once we get the actual model in, the BT-7 "should" (I'll say this with all hope that it will, :) ) fit nicely into them for those brave enough to use them with the BT-7. For comparision, the T-60's height was 1.8m, the Bt-7 was 2.28m, and the KV-1 was 2.71m.

The BT-7 definately changes gameplay. The BT-7 was designed as a cavalry tank, so hit and run is the right tatic. It will be interesting to see how this evolves. Again, we have options on the BT-7 though. If gameplay and people think it would be better to increase the armor or even add HE, we can do that. I'll be the first to admit that I do not have all the answers. My wife will confirm this. :D

On the performance issue, after talking with Slyk, we don't think it is BT-7 related. Though it is another model / package and that's memory and processor load. It could be the proverbial "staw" that breaks the elephant's back. We're going to test with and with out it just to make sure.

I will be heart broken if in the end it is the BT-7, but it's better to know the problem so it can be fixed. :( Slyk will give me a rash of crap, but I'll just have to figure it out then. Especially since we're starting to make some progress on the AT Gun which would be another item that would be loaded into the map.

Cheers!
 
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#53
EvilHobo said:
Oh, one of the things I was considering is:

Why not add the StuG? I think it would be a nice addition to the German tank force to help with that final push across the river by serving as the assault gun it is, also would work as a nice tank destroyer to take out those entrenched KVs.
Click to expand...

not sure if the StuG modeled in the game was available in June/July 1941.
 
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#56
The in-game Stug is a later war variant and inappropriate for 1941. Reference material can be found here: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/stug.htm

There is a great link out there with Panzer type by division on June 22nd and at a later time after attrition. I can't find the link any longer and can't find it via Google at the moment. The StugIII was disperesed as infantry support guns and to supplement the Panzer platoons etc. as necessary. They all had the short 75mm gun at the time portrayed in the map.
 
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#60
Thanks for the comments guys. Although for every thing I improved, I seem to have created another issue. ;)

Working on it and trying some new ideas. I really am most worried about performance. This version *should* be smoother than the first. Back to looking at other ideas like dropping solid bsp under the ridge lines, although I don't expect much improvement there from the anti-portals I have now.
 
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