Tripwire, the core gameplay of RO2 is fine

[Leopardi]

Only thing wrong is map design which is CQB based. I find RO2 most enjoyable at long range rifle combat. That's really where the design excels, dialing in the sights etc. then scoring an awesome headshot followed by a satisfying metallic clinc and the guy falling down like a sack of potatoes.

 

[Grobut]

Grobut says it better than I did.

I do think that map design has a lot to do with it. At close quarters the things that just aren't quite right come together and are much more noticeable.

On a larger map (like Ogledow) the gameplay is a bit more realistic and for me, much more enjoyable.

Map sizes do not excuse it, ever played the origional R6 or SWAT games? Older realism mods like Infiltration or D-Day Q2? Thease games where all about the CQB, either because of technical limitations of their time, or because of their setting, they had no choice but to go small and cramped, but they made it work and were amazing realism games for their time.

I could even mention Ofp or ARMA, yes thouse games do huge maps, but when the combat on thouse maps revolve around clearing out a tiny village, a fraction of the size of any HoS map, do thouse games suddenly start sucking or lose all their realism? No, no they do not.

CQB is not the enemy of realism, whilst it is true that it's easier to obtain realistic play on a larger map than a small one, a good tactical shooter with solid mechanics should be capable of doing both.

 

[Apos]

Again with the healing. Amidst your larger argument this may sound like a nitpick, but bandages do not heal. Not fully, not partially. Impairment from wounds will be another issue (If added, it would be great, and based on the official poll it seems likely) to look at. But you gain no hit points back from bandaging a wound, so it is not a heal. When you get a bleeding wound you lose some hit points immediately and some over time. Bandaging just cancels further hit point loss from bleeding (and in one vid I saw, it also cancels any further hit point loss to that hitbox whatsoever! an unfortunate glitch), but there is no way to gain back already lost hit points.

If you get hit in:
- leg you shouldn't be able to sprint
- hand/arm you shouldn't be able to aim steady
- other parts you should be simply dead or unable to continue fight
After you use bandages you still can sprint (and accelerate in 0.1 second), jump, zig-zag and kill a guy with SMG at 200 meters...play w/o any drawbacks like a fresh soldier (even if you got hit in torso). That game mechanic is simple copy-paste from BF/CoD games. I miss advanced wounding system from RO:O...

 

[DiedTrying]

Again with the healing. Amidst your larger argument this may sound like a nitpick, but bandages do not heal. Not fully, not partially. Impairment from wounds will be another issue (If added, it would be great, and based on the official poll it seems likely) to look at. But you gain no hit points back from bandaging a wound, so it is not a heal. When you get a bleeding wound you lose some hit points immediately and some over time. Bandaging just cancels further hit point loss from bleeding (and in one vid I saw, it also cancels any further hit point loss to that hitbox whatsoever! an unfortunate glitch), but there is no way to gain back already lost hit points.

You are right, you don't heal. You just get impenetrable body armor on the segment of body that was hit....

 

[LugNut]

I don't agree with your assesment that "HoS went for realism", because there are two sides to that coin when talking gameplay design, how it looks and presents itself, and how it actually works and interacts with the rest of the gameworld, and TWI has only succeeded with the first one (for the most part), HoS has many realistic looking features that you'd think would make for a super realistic game, but they don't, because they haven't succeeded at the second part, duplicating real world results.
HoS realism is only skin deep, it's all "features" that we could list, and it would look very impressive on a bullet-point list, but it doesen't play realistic, it plays like.. an FPS game, any generic WWII themed FPS game, just with shorter life expectancies, all thouse features never come togeather to form realistic and tactical play, hell it doesen't even form something i find unique, it just feels so very bland and mediocre to me.

Grobut FTW!

Agreed. Large maps like Olgendow play better IMO, but they simply mask the problems that are so silly on the stock maps behind distance. Snap to ADS from a dead sprint? Still can, but you'll probably miss at that range anyway. ZigZag like a hip shooting maniac with a SMG? Have at it dude, you'll still be dead in the middle of field anyhow. Etc.

The problems still need to go away in whatever Realism mode we end up with.

 

[MarioBava]

You are right, you don't heal. You just get impenetrable body armor on the segment of body that was hit....

That's almost worse, but you'd have to admit that's a glitch and not an intentional design choice.

 

[DiedTrying]

That's almost worse, but you'd have to admit that's a glitch and not an intentional design choice.

You know what...I didn't even notice the part where you mentioned the "body armor"

Sorry for being redundant

 

[The_Cook]

I'd like to think I'm speaking for the silent majority here. This is because those that are dissatisfied are the most vocal ones; the rest of us are busy playing the game. So here goes: RO2 doesn't need slower sprinting, it doesn't need less stamina and it sure as hell doesn't need disabling of strafing while sprinting, which is the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a long while (it was suggested in the 'Project Realism Changes' thread). Strafe-sprinting requires performing the expert feat of gymnastics called 'turning your head'.

Now I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about the people I respect the least here: the nostalgics. This forum is plagued by nostalgia. There are always people who are whining about 'the good old days' and how much better everything was in the past, whether they be old indignant farts or young indignant gamers. Never have I seen a clearer case of nostalgia epidemic than in one thread comparing gun sounds from Ostfront, RO:CA and RO2. Needless to say, RO2, which I think has the most realistic and immersive gun sounds I've heard in any game (though I haven't played BF3 yet and it supposedly has good sound effects), was faring quite poorly in that thread.

I like Ostfront but I can see it's flaws. Take the class limits, which many people were rightly upset by. It's good that the number of assault and elite rifleman classes got lowered but the problem was even bigger in Ostfront; six assault slots on a 50 player server (the Wild bunch server). Or take the fact that FOV is locked at 85

 

[Poerisija]

claiming silent majority is claiming nothing. Either way let's see running is fine, sprinting is fine. penalty for low stamina or no stamina does not exist. I can run my *** off on no stamina and still hit things i see 100% like an Olympic shooter on crack. Long range shooting in this game is unrealistically easy. The guns are modeled pretty much right. What isn't modeled correctly is the player character who has steel forearms and lungs that suck in 110% oxygen. 300meter shot rested on a bench is difficult enough irl. try doing a 200meter shot after 8 laps around the parking lot in a standing unsupported position. you do that and you can go try out for the winter Olympics. Recoil is fine as is, close enough.

You just have played to much COD BF CS HALO UNREAL DOOm and have never used a firearm in real life. so your perceptions are understandable.

Ps BANDAGE is bull****. never should have had that feature. Would be less angry with a medic class that could bandage rather than everyone having bandages

Like I've said before, the biggest problem is how holding breath is implemented, IE, instant perfect shot-button.

Stamina DOES affect sway but it doesn't essentially do anything because you can still press the "instant perfect shot"-button that is hold breath.

If you guys actually test it there's a pretty huge sway from having no stamina, it just doesn't even show because people can just press shift to cancel it.

It's just plain stupid design.

 

[DiedTrying]

Like I've said before, the biggest problem is how holding breath is implemented, IE, instant perfect shot-button.

I've argued this since the game came out...If I may extol...I believe I was the first to point this out (and messaged devs)

It's not as noticeable with lower rank, but it's there. Higher the rank the longer the perfect aim.

 

[affenjunge]

Infiltration

Oh boy I loved that mod. I even bought 2 copies of UT just for it. Good old days.

But whats up with RO2? To put it simply, it's badly designed. That's the reason why so many people left. We all can live with a few shortcomings but not with a game that displeases it's former hardcore fans and is too realistic/unforgiving for most people. TWI shot itself in both legs with RO2 and the only reason why I'm still here is the lack of alternatives.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Machete234]

I think the gameplay would become more tactical with the mechanics as they are now if the bullet reg became better.
When you can hit somebody who runs easily this kind of behaviour wont work anymore.

You dont fix the game by making it less responsive like more time to bring the sites up.
But by making it really easy to mow the runners down.
This is hard because it means making the netcode better.

Apart from that the bandaging should change so that the bleeding takes your health away and is not restored so with the next wound you will continue where you stopped before (dying faster).
Also bandaging should take 10sec or so

 

[Colt .45 killer]

One only need play with a pistol to understand how F**cked parts of this game are.

Pull out a pistol, shoot a guy at 50M and hit him, then get killed while you try and get hits two and three ( even though this went sideways through his chest ).



Im hoping for a damage scale close to the original Ost. I know it is overkill and that people can surive things that killed them in Ost. But the knowledge that you were NOT superman, and that you did NOT have magi-band-aids (FYRJ) made players a little bit more hesitant...

 

[Nezzer]

One only need play with a pistol to understand how F**cked parts of this game are.

Pull out a pistol, shoot a guy at 50M and hit him, then get killed while you try and get hits two and three ( even though this went sideways through his chest ).



Im hoping for a damage scale close to the original Ost. I know it is overkill and that people can surive things that killed them in Ost. But the knowledge that you were NOT superman, and that you did NOT have magi-band-aids (FYRJ) made players a little bit more hesitant...

I think pistols are something they improved in RO2 as they are a lot deadlier than in RO1. Sometimes it would take 5 hits to kill someone in RO1 and I have even survived headshots. I don't think I've ever had a one shot kill in the chest in RO1, while in RO2 it's not uncommon.

 

[Aurien]

I'll say that the OP has some good points, mainly that the movement is a huge improvement over Ostfront. The problem isn't that you run faster, it's that you can run until exhausted and then raise your rifle for a crack shot at 150m. Go put on your thickest winter coat and boots, grab a pellet/airsoft gun, sprint 150m through thick snow and then try and hit something in a split second. It ain't easy, and there is no reason it should be in RO2 either.

You're just talking out your ***. I loved to see videos of this being done regularly by someone. What you just stated is not how the game plays or works. Have you even played RO2?

 

[+SturmSoldat+]

Me too. It's ok but not great and not as fun as DH was.

This!
I found myself last week getting back to DH and RO1.
Huge maps, lots of time, lots of vehicles, no lock down mode.
Hopefully this is where HoS is heading to also...

 

[HLudwig]

Darkest hour focused on balanced gameplay over realism

Now you are just trolling.

Everyone knows that the DH team, now called Jackboot Games, has always stayed true to realism as much as the current engine allows. Not only is DH all about realism, its actually damn fun to play because of the tactical shooter/combine arms elements along some great maps that make you feel as if you are in Western Europe.

 

[gimpy117]

I agree pistol bullets, Mainly PPSH and Tokarev / Nagant.
9mm actually seems to do the trick pretty well, and has more stopping power IMO, but I'd need to get more play time. The problem is that Russian pistol rounds seem to do a lot less damage even though 7.62 torarev is in the same class as 9mm and wartime nagant rounds are very near .32 H&R Magnum

but yes, I think the character is way to ramboesque, bullets need to slow you down, weapons being dropped, hurt legs etc. Right now, the person who hits first has no advantage, and there's no negative or risk for running around all willy nilly

 

[MrGoat]

Honestly i just love WW2 shooters and games. I eat up any WW2 game there is. I only have to choose between this and DOD source, since the others are dead.

Its kind of arcadey. But Call of Duty: United offensive, is one of the best ww2 shooters with some of the most fun gunplay i've seen. There are still servers up too. Big maps and vehicles too.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

RO2 is far more realistic than RO1

Incorrect. See the rambo MG34, bandaging, killcam, etc...

RO2 has focused on realism over balanced gameplay

Incorrect. See the PTRS 784(r) vs the T34's frontal turret, the addition of MkB 42 / MP 40 II to balance out the PPSH which itself is balanced with magazines instead of a drum as default, etc...

RO2 has been a failure

Correct.

Darkest hour was an amazing success

Correct.

Darkest hour focused on balanced gameplay over realism

Incorrect. You have it backwards and a mere glimpse of their forum discussions throughout the years would disprove your claim.

Our only hope now is...darkest hour 2

Incorrect. Apperently the Darkest Hour team has nothing to do with RO II as they have left the Red Orchestra series in order to make their own standalone Normandy game. Look here:

When one door closes, another opens...This post also serves as the first official public announcement of our team's transition to the Jackboot Games, LLC banner. You might notice some BIG changes to the place over the coming weeks. We hope that you will continue to share your thoughts and ideas with us as we embark on our next journey. Development is already underway on our new project - a standalone release built using Epic Games' UDK featuring the British/Commonwealth sector of operations in Normandy from the D-Day landings until the closing of the Falaise Pocket. Our pledge to you is to stay engaged and remain true to the type of gaming experience you have come to want and expect from us

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