Tripwire, the core gameplay of RO2 is fine

[DiscoCat]

I'd like to think I'm speaking for the silent majority here. This is because those that are dissatisfied are the most vocal ones; the rest of us are busy playing the game. So here goes: RO2 doesn't need slower sprinting, it doesn't need less stamina and it sure as hell doesn't need disabling of strafing while sprinting, which is the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a long while (it was suggested in the 'Project Realism Changes' thread). Strafe-sprinting requires performing the expert feat of gymnastics called 'turning your head'.

Now I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about the people I respect the least here: the nostalgics. This forum is plagued by nostalgia. There are always people who are whining about 'the good old days' and how much better everything was in the past, whether they be old indignant farts or young indignant gamers. Never have I seen a clearer case of nostalgia epidemic than in one thread comparing gun sounds from Ostfront, RO:CA and RO2. Needless to say, RO2, which I think has the most realistic and immersive gun sounds I've heard in any game (though I haven't played BF3 yet and it supposedly has good sound effects), was faring quite poorly in that thread.

I like Ostfront but I can see it's flaws. Take the class limits, which many people were rightly upset by. It's good that the number of assault and elite rifleman classes got lowered but the problem was even bigger in Ostfront; six assault slots on a 50 player server (the Wild bunch server). Or take the fact that FOV is locked at 85

 

[Alperce]

+1, totally agree.

 

[ARMY guy]

Honestly i just love WW2 shooters and games. I eat up any WW2 game there is. I only have to choose between this and DOD source, since the others are dead. I like ROOST. I Like Ro2. I even Like DOD S in some ways. I just wish we as a small community could find a good common ground so that everyone could enjoy the game, so we could have a larger community. I see no huge problems with all the games, they are all fun in their own ways.

I believe there were many nice additions to ro2, but we all agree there were some problems. I just hope we can get these things ironed out, and have a game everyone can agree with being awesome. My Personal opinion is that ro2 is not far from this goal.

 

[Nikita]

While it's certainly true that Ostfront was far from perfect, and that some people go too far in their pursuit of realism, I'm not sure if you're in the majority for saying that the core gameplay is largely fine as-is. At the most fundamental level, people aren't playing actively as a team much of the time, long-range combat is far too lethal, the bandaging/wound system is cursory, and tanks most certainly need a lot of work.

I agree though that a lot of the "super list of realism changes" threads often are quite radical in some regards. I think Tripwire has a fairly good idea about which gameplay changes are supported by a larger amount of people and which ones are the pet passions of a select few.

 

[griffner]

I completely agree. RO2 doesn't need major changes not does it need a massive realism rehaul : I believe it's near perfect as it is. It is accessible, fun and immersive. It needs : more content, more maps and more players, and perhaps a better general interface (HUD, menus, etcs). Of course, its gameplay needs to be tweaked, but not to the extent of making it a feat to simply play the game. When this is implemented, those that want an uber-realist game (which is not what TWI presented : rather an accessible realist game) will be able to go on and create their own mod.

 

[Hicks]

Completely agree. The SMG recoil is about perfect now; it seems they buffed the ppsh to match the mp40 and that is a good thing. I think RO2 is what RO:CA was meant to be in its right form and use of technology. The sounds are also as heavy and 'boomy' as they were in the mod days. I love it.

They just need to fix the footstep sounds issue now. It was working in the beta version (at least for me) but now it seems like I can only hear my own and not that of other players

 

[Vyllis]

-1.

Its like the TWI politics to attract a new more "casual" community start to be successful.
Welcome new community.
Ah, and we the nostalgics, don't think you will just drop us in your garbage bin so easily.

 

[Andrew Blake]

I'd like to think I'm speaking for the silent majority here. This is because those that are dissatisfied are the most vocal ones; the rest of us are busy playing the game. So here goes: RO2 doesn't need slower sprinting, it doesn't need less stamina and it sure as hell doesn't need disabling of strafing while sprinting, which is the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a long while (it was suggested in the 'Project Realism Changes' thread). Strafe-sprinting requires performing the expert feat of gymnastics called 'turning your head'.

Now I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about the people I respect the least here: the nostalgics. This forum is plagued by nostalgia. There are always people who are whining about 'the good old days' and how much better everything was in the past, whether they be old indignant farts or young indignant gamers. Never have I seen a clearer case of nostalgia epidemic than in one thread comparing gun sounds from Ostfront, RO:CA and RO2. Needless to say, RO2, which I think has the most realistic and immersive gun sounds I've heard in any game (though I haven't played BF3 yet and it supposedly has good sound effects), was faring quite poorly in that thread.

I like Ostfront but I can see it's flaws. Take the class limits, which many people were rightly upset by. It's good that the number of assault and elite rifleman classes got lowered but the problem was even bigger in Ostfront; six assault slots on a 50 player server (the Wild bunch server). Or take the fact that FOV is locked at 85

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Keep in mind that the Majority of the players requesting realism changes are not asking that the gameplay be changed for those that currently enjoy it the way it is. They are asking for either an improved, more realistic Realism mode or another mode altogether.

Unfortunately most, or at least some of the players that seem to think things are fine the way they are don't see that and think that we want to change the way everyone plays which simply is not true.

Its fine that you also express your opinion as I'm sure others do share it, but I must say, thanks for calling us Whiners. You really add to the discussion that way. Did I miss where you tell us to join the army for more realism?

 

[Cyper]

This is a tactical shooter. In terms of tactical shooters you're not going in the right direction when you increase the arcade gameplay. If you can't live with the fact that the people here want to improve, and remain RO in that way, play another game. There's plenty of games for you out there while there is only one RO. It's only good for you because you like it the way it is. The hardcore mode has to be changed and if you doesn't agree with that go away. It wont affect you anyway. People like you seems to have a grudge agianst tactical shooters yet the first thing you do is to buy one.

 

[MarioBava]

Bugs aside, you mean the game is fine?
Twi doesn't need to balance it?
It's fine if you can rambo with LMG with 250 round belt?
it's fine if half of the team chooses they enemy's weapons?
That You can't choose unlocks?

I could continue, but I think you got the point.

He spoke for himself, you're changing what he said. Please note:

To clarify and sum up: I'm not saying that every criticism of the game is the result of nostalgia or is invalid. This post is just my long-winded way of saying that RO2 is a step in the right direction.

 

[MarioBava]

For sake of discussion, please clearly define what is an "arcade gameplay".

I just don't see it with reference to RO2. Because my sense of what an "arcade" genre game is so dissimilar to anything that RO2 is about... Yet. Maybe you can convince me with a good definition of "arcade" and a good argument.

 

[Nikita]

I might add that those who like RO2's gameplay as-is now might LOVE its gameplay with changes. You're presumably here because RO2 is the best World War II tactical shooter of the year, because the maps are beautiful and immersive, because you feel like you're fighting in the most brutal battle in history, because it's more demanding and challenging than any other FPS you've ever played. DiscoCat and Griffner both mentioned "immersive" openly as one of the reasons for their love of the current game.

Well if that's the case, I've got great news for you! Realism changes will improve immersion--you can actually lay down fire with that MG as bullets whiz around you instead of getting picked off instantly with a single shot. :IS2: You won't have to hear the obnoxious chatter of the Mkb in the background.

Bug fixes will mean more tanks in servers--more forlorn-hope Engineer dashes to kill them, more blood spattering the beautiful interiors as AT-rounds punch through weak points in armor. :IS2:

Wound-system changes will provide the potential for epic last stands where you can barely keep your barrel fixed on the target but are nevertheless holding down an entire hallway as grenades explode on the floor below you. :IS2:

Making machine-gun hipfire more difficult will make it more exhilarating when your position is overrun and you hold on for just a few seconds more by spraying the first intruder from the hip before getting riddled by the next three.:IS2:

Less zoom and more sway will make that 150m headshot feel AWESOME instead of just nice.:IS2:

A better squad system will make you feel like you're actually part of a platoon, pushing and fighting tooth and nail through the runs to take that objective.

There was an article in PC Gamer before RO2 was released that said something which struck me as totally accurate. The Red Orchestra series doesn't reward you with ribbons and pop rocks for making a kill (). It feeds you steak and potatoes by making you fight for survival. Some individual kills in RO1 AND RO2 give you more satisfaction than entire rounds of Halo and World at War (I've played both).:IS2:

Face it guys, I'm here for the same immersion you are here for. That's what I'm advocating for along with other guys--and we're not proposing changes with the Relaxed Realism mode. Give the new realism mode a try when it comes out, and you might just be blown away by how much more EPIC it is.:IS2::IS2::IS2:

 

[ARMY guy]

For sake of discussion, please clearly define what is an "arcade gameplay".

I just don't see it with reference to RO2. Because my sense of what an "arcade" genre game is so dissimilar to anything that RO2 is about... Yet. Maybe you can convince me with a good definition of "arcade" and a good argument.

Thats my beef with that whole ro2 is arcade argument. In my opinion, arcade is day of defeat source. If someone tells me that ro2 is in the same realm as DOD i would tell them to play some more to figure out what arcade means. And DOD isn't even the most arcade even, theres CS, COD, BF, etc.

 

[Apos]

Well, TWI wanted to attract "wider audience" = casual players by making RO2 clone of CoD:WaW.

It didn't work because for casuals RO2's graphic isn't as attractive as it is in BF3 or CoD.
Also for them RO is way way way too realistic, slow pased, etc. RO2 is aimed for non existence customers because neither RO fans and casual players are truly happy. What's more: RO will never beats CoD or Battlefield series. It can be only better for realism / tactical / authentic community. Beside that, there are dozens casual fps games: CoD, BF3, Homefront, Brink, MoH, Counter-Strike and so on...

Watch this:

The Salebox - Daily Steam Deals - December 20, 2011 - YouTube

2:45

What can help:
- leave relaxed realism as it is now
- fix gameplay in normal mode

Problem solved!

 

[Nazarov]

Thats my beef with that whole ro2 is arcade argument. In my opinion, arcade is day of defeat source. If someone tells me that ro2 is in the same realm as DOD i would tell them to play some more to figure out what arcade means. And DOD isn't even the most arcade even, theres CS, COD, BF, etc.

Weapon leveling, weapon unlocks, no native language but badly accented voices, choppy running, multiple insta bayonet kills, a lone PPSH wiping out germans (or MkB doing its 30 bullet course of kill streak), whack-a-mole style coverage system, bandaging system (DoD beta 3.1 had this too), lock-downs, carrying 2 main weapons (even DoD source doesn't have this), switching weapons as fas as possible, picking up the gun and long with it an entire belt of ammo, etc.

 

[Nezzer]

If you are pleased with the game as it is now please STAY ON RELAXED REALISM SERVERS and let the ones who want realism have their way on the realism servers with the changes TWI proposed on that poll. Problem solved, both parts of the community satisfied.

 

[Grobut]

Keep in mind that the Majority of the players requesting realism changes are not asking that the gameplay be changed for those that currently enjoy it the way it is. They are asking for either an improved, more realistic Realism mode or another mode altogether.

Unfortunately most, or at least some of the players that seem to think things are fine the way they are don't see that and think that we want to change the way everyone plays which simply is not true.

Its fine that you also express your opinion as I'm sure others do share it, but I must say, thanks for calling us Whiners. You really add to the discussion that way. Did I miss where you tell us to join the army for more realism?

This, and i should gladly give you an upvote had i not spend my allotment for the day.


The RO2 style gameplay isen't going anywhere, it is not changing, the "Standard" mode will continue working as it does now, so you have nothing to fear if you like the way Ro2 plays, it will still play like that.

Infact let me repeat that in bold text and an annoying colour, because you people seem to have trouble reading this simple fact:

The RO2 style gameplay isen't going anywhere, it is not changing, the "Standard" mode will continue working as it does now, so you have nothing to fear if you like the way Ro2 plays, it will still play like that.

Did you read it now? Or do i have to post it again in the largest font-size the forum allows and neon-pink text before you will notice it?


What IS happening is that a new mode of play is getting added, notice how "adding" and "overwriting" is not the same word and doesen't mean the same thing. And if you don't like that mode, you don't have to play it, you don't even need to care about it, you can just continue playing Ro2 as you do now and ignore it entirely, is that so bloody hard to understand?


Yes, i am well aware that i am beeing a hostile and sardonic git in this post, but you know what? Bloody deal with it, because i am at the end of my rope trying to explain this to people..

 

[DiedTrying]

I'd like to think I'm speaking for the silent majority here. This is because those that are dissatisfied are the most vocal ones; the rest of us are busy playing the game.

All 250 of you?

Yea.... Forget about the ~10,000 who stopped playing the game altogether...

But keep telling yourself that you are the majority and that you speak for them.

(quite the big head you have...)

 

[Nazarov]

Infact let me repeat that in bold text and an annoying colour, because you people seem to have trouble reading this simple fact:

The RO2 style gameplay isen't going anywhere, it is not changing, the "Standard" mode will continue working as it does now, so you have nothing to fear if you like the way Ro2 plays, it will still play like that.

Did you read it now? Or do i have to post it again in the largest font-size the forum allows and neon-pink text before you will notice it?

i almost gave a negative point because it was so hostile, but the principle, I agree on. lol
But I can totally foresee that if this mode is implemented, majority of the servers will adopt the more realistic gameplay.
I don't ever see the firefight servers populated, and all 3 servers I played were sporting the realism mode.
It's a pseudo 'addon' because you know we will win this battle over the normal mode. HURRAH!