Tripwire, the core gameplay of RO2 is fine

[MarioBava]

Yeah, what's with all these foot assassins anyway? Jokes aside, this is quite a surprising turn of events.

Maybe a nice solution when feet run out of hitpoints, would be to force the player into a crouch? That way, foot assassins everywhere have something new to shoot at in the same target location Doesn't really work for hands, so I suppose it needs to be, as already suggested, a case of game over when any limb loses all of its hitpoints? Any kind of immunity completely breaks all kinds of rules, before you even start talking about realism.

Sounds like an Anvil song hehe: "Foooooooot! Assassins!!" But, good idea.

Maybe just fix it so the second shot to the affected area is a bleedout (with bandage chance). This way its not insta death like RO1 nor immunity like RO2.

Both of these are good ideas. I like the 2nd shot bleedout idea especially as a compromise. Bandaging would let you survive the process twice, since you only get 2 of them, but it wouldn't be infinite like now.

 

[Fidelius]

We already have several levels of damage in most parts of the body (i've seen yellow and red injuries), why dont we get penalties when in yellow (limping, weapon been drop, aiming been harder) and incapatitation or slow death for red ones?

Half of the system is already done, it just needs good implementation.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Agreed.

And even if they would make this game exactly like the first RO there would still be people who complain. You can't do right for everyone.

The most important things to me is that gamebreaking bugs are fixed (like hits not registering and wounds suddenly vanishing)

I'm not against changing the realism mode though, but even than I'm sure people would still complain.

 

[MrHello]

that is correct, and what the system was intended to address.

why yoshiro?

Why will you not address the issue of having to compensate shots for piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Regarding the shot ping, or 'lag compensation:' Disregarding any bugs that might be present (unknown), RAMM has stated that the game will not feature any sort of lag compensation. There were lengthy discussions about this before release as to why, and I do know at least one other person posted a link to his statement.

I personally HATE HATE HATE lag compensation in games and when I play on a higher pinging server (even in Russia from here in the US), I don't need to lead my target much more, if at all, than I would if I were firing at a pheasant or a deer going across my path.

I am aware that others do, or at least feel they have to lead a target alot. That just leads me to think there may be a few bugs in the system still.

 

[Zetsumei]

Personally I hate predictive lag compensation, but like lag compensation that looks back in time. But anyway lag compensation should always be optional.

 

[LordSteve]

I hate how works the bandage system at the moment. If you shoot at an enemy and your hit it isnt deadly he can shoot you down and bandage quickly himself. Maybe TWI should handle the wounding system like in Darkest Hour, where an hitted enemy falls to the ground, and the movements are much slower. I dont like how quick it works now with the bandage system, hitted enemys run too fast. I hope TWI add the feature that you can shoot at an enemy and he drops again his weapons like in good old Roost. And if not they should remove the bandage system.

 

[Grobut]

On the one hand you have a system where two shots to an extremity will kill you and on the other hand you have a system where no number of shots to a limb, however high, will kill you. Neither one is realistic in terms of immediate life and death, but like everyone is saying in terms of what is being called "combat effectiveness," the former is clearly more realistic.

In Ost it wasen't ment to simulate death, it was there because respawning with a fresh soldier was more fun than lying on the ground helpless for 20 minutes waiting to bleed out.

Combat ineffectiveness is a very real thing, not every soldier who is shot dies instantly, nor is it common for them to shrug off the damage and keep going as if nothing happened (unless it's just a superficial fleshwound of course, and whilst soldiers have been fatally wounded without noticing it, they wheren't fine, they died a few minutes later, and no bandage would have stopped that), walking normally on a broken leg or foot is not really possible, and broken hands and arms would definately prevent you from using a gun.

Things is, this doesen't translate well to a videogame, who want's to spend 20 minutes lying helplessly in a ditch waiting to bleed out? Who wants to keep playing if they can't shoot? who wants to play an FPS game where they can't move? Thouse are the realistic options, that's what would actually happen to you, but does it make for a fun videogame? No, it really doesen't..

This is why Ost just took you out of the action and spawned you with a fresh dude if you got to badly injured to keep fighting, that was the whole idea behind it, and it did work.


The HoS system is just broken though, how do you put a bandaid over a sucking chest-wound and come out of it fit as a fiddle, still able to jump and sprint around? How do you sprint around on a leg that's been shot several times, and where every bone must be broken or shattered? How do you fire a gun with an arm that should just be a bloody stump?
And yet, jumping out of a window that's just 1cm too high will insta kill you..

The Ost system had it's quirks, i woulden't call it perfect, but it did work, both as a videogame mechanic and for the sake of immersion, it was a solid and fair system.
But what we have in HoS does neither, it's just... broken.

 

[Poerisija]

How do you indeed? You don't, you can only bandage the non-fatal, non-incapacitating wounds.

If I've hit someone where I aimed at, they're always down. When I miss a bit and hit a non-fatal hit they can bandage it. Non fatal being a shot not hitting an artery, bone, major muscle or anything that would kill or incapacitate.

I agree there should be penalties, but IMO the basic principle of combat ineffective/incapacitated/dead = you're in respawn queue still applies for RO2 as it did for RO1. Except in RO1 you had temporary penalties that went away after a few seconds. Those penalties should be back and they should affect the player till the next respawn. Bandaging (IN THEORY) is a massive improvement over the magic nanobots of RO:Ost. I just wish it took more time (and bleedout took more time) than it takes to tie shoelaces AND that there were penalties.

Because lives are short in general in RO, it doesn't matter so much and if someone suicides to get a new, fresh soldier it's always a reinforcement ticket less. That should make people consider it, especially when you're low on reinforcements and let's face it - most hardcore OST fans wouldn't suicide because you've been wounded, would you?

 

[MarioBava]

In Ost it wasen't ment to simulate death, it was there because respawning with a fresh soldier was more fun than lying on the ground helpless for 20 minutes waiting to bleed out.

Combat ineffectiveness is a very real thing, not every soldier who is shot dies instantly, nor is it common for them to shrug off the damage and keep going as if nothing happened (unless it's just a superficial fleshwound of course, and whilst soldiers have been fatally wounded without noticing it, they wheren't fine, they died a few minutes later, and no bandage would have stopped that), walking normally on a broken leg or foot is not really possible, and broken hands and arms would definately prevent you from using a gun.

Things is, this doesen't translate well to a videogame, who want's to spend 20 minutes lying helplessly in a ditch waiting to bleed out? Who wants to keep playing if they can't shoot? who wants to play an FPS game where they can't move? Thouse are the realistic options, that's what would actually happen to you, but does it make for a fun videogame? No, it really doesen't..

This is why Ost just took you out of the action and spawned you with a fresh dude if you got to badly injured to keep fighting, that was the whole idea behind it, and it did work.


The HoS system is just broken though, how do you put a bandaid over a sucking chest-wound and come out of it fit as a fiddle, still able to jump and sprint around? How do you sprint around on a leg that's been shot several times, and where every bone must be broken or shattered? How do you fire a gun with an arm that should just be a bloody stump?
And yet, jumping out of a window that's just 1cm too high will insta kill you..

The Ost system had it's quirks, i woulden't call it perfect, but it did work, both as a videogame mechanic and for the sake of immersion, it was a solid and fair system.
But what we have in HoS does neither, it's just... broken.

Good points. I think some compromise or combination between HoS system and Ostfront system is best. What I would want is both the bleeding/bandage system and the idea of lasting impairment from wounds whether they get bandaged or not, and "death"/combat ineffectiveness from too much injury to the same place. I feel like your example of the "sucking chest wound" would probably in actuality be treated by the game as it is now as a case of "slow death" rather than bleedout, but I could be way wrong and that would have to be tested to confirm...probably not hard to do: get a buddy on an otherwise empty server and shoot him in his right chest; see what happens.