[Beta 5 Release] RO-Berezina

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Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Slyk: Bang up job! I'm very happy to see the AT guns added. They work pretty well.

I have one question though. The traverse on them is pretty limited. Was the traverse on these guns really limited to only like 20 degrees? (It won't go beyond 1 or 11 o'clock) This makes them difficult to use in certain respects because the other players know where they can go to get outside of their arcs.

I would also like to add that perhaps you should consider dropping the Russian tanks from this map and giving the Russians a lot of ATGs to use. I know you're working on the BA7 and that would be a shame to not put it in, but you can use it for other maps instead. The reason why I suggest this is that I would LOVE to see an infantry vs armor map where the infantry have a defensive position with lots of ATGs to protect and the armor must assault them. That seems to be the standard of WWII battles (armor besieging entrenched infantry).

If not this map, perhaps another then.

Have you considered cloning yourself (and your team) so that you can really start pumping these maps out? As far as I'm concerned, between these two maps, you've raised RO to a whole new level of gameplay.

Large assault maps with really long time limits and combined arms = teh win.
 

Britney Federline

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
1,174
123
0
Yeah, I was wondering myself if the AT guns could move past 11 or 1 o'clock, but the movement would be super duper slow. As in so slow you wonder if it's worth it, but if you guess right it'll really pay off.

Perhaps the coding is either impossible, or really hard, to do this, since you'd have to program for varying turn rates at different angles of rotation away from a "home" alignment, which would be dependent on the map maker's placement of the model.
 

Slyk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
1,277
10
0
www.after-hourz.com
The AT guns are set at their historically correct 30 degrees. We have discussed making them go to 40 but decided not too in lieu of the outcry that would ensue. We'll stick to the 30 degrees. It would be up to the mappers to locate them in advantageous positions to make the most of their arc and to put them in positions where they could mutually support eachother.

A tank-less map would be murder for the Russians. The AT guns are easily knocked out once you locate and range them. One hit and they are toast. It would require a lot of them and respawns to keep the map active. I think they are better in a supporting role, at least on Berezina. Other mappers may come up with cool scenarios where they are the focal defense weapon. We expect to see some neat search-and-destroy maps as well where they will be objectives to destroy...especially on infantry-centric maps with only transports and no tanks or limited tanks. Make the infantry work hard to protect their armor. This would present a nice alternative to the typical map.
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
The AT guns are set at their historically correct 30 degrees. We have discussed making them go to 40 but decided not too in lieu of the outcry that would ensue. We'll stick to the 30 degrees. It would be up to the mappers to locate them in advantageous positions to make the most of their arc and to put them in positions where they could mutually support eachother.

I didn't realize that they went all the way to 30 degrees. My bad. That's a 60 degree arc and that is probably ok. I agree that using the historical arcs is the right way to go. I'm curious how IRL they would have addressed this issue (a tank outside an ATG's arc), but that's a discussion for another thread.

A tank-less map would be murder for the Russians. The AT guns are easily knocked out once you locate and range them. One hit and they are toast. It would require a lot of them and respawns to keep the map active.

Exactly! :D That's what I was thinking. Quite a few ATG's at each line that respawn after a couple of minutes when destroyed. After all, the tanks (and everything else) respawns indefinately, why not ATGs? Just a thought...



I think they are better in a supporting role, at least on Berezina. Other mappers may come up with cool scenarios where they are the focal defense weapon. We expect to see some neat search-and-destroy maps as well where they will be objectives to destroy...especially on infantry-centric maps with only transports and no tanks or limited tanks. Make the infantry work hard to protect their armor. This would present a nice alternative to the typical map.

Well, you're in the final phases of this map and it would require a lot of rework to change that (not to mention playbalance testing), so I don't begrudge your decision. Perhaps something for the future maybe? ;)

PS- I sincerely wish I had some mapping skills so I could contribute to your team's efforts. I attempted to learn how to make custom maps, and watched a ton of training videos, but unfortunately it just wasn't something I could get my head around. :(
 

Slyk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
1,277
10
0
www.after-hourz.com
To move the gun to cover another/wider angle, they could literally pick up the trails and turn it. It would take a few men to move but could be done rather quickly if needed. Generally though you would pick your spot carefully for the best angle any way knowing that once your position is known, your life expectancy goes down rather quickly.

However, through more testing, evaluation and some ultra-secret high-tech mathematics, we realized we might be short on the arc afterall. Screenshots and protractors! ;) Update/final coming soon along with TractorWorks 'final'.
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
However, through more testing, evaluation and some ultra-secret high-tech mathematics, we realized we might be short on the arc afterall. Screenshots and protractors! ;) Update/final coming soon along with TractorWorks 'final'.

LOL... I was going to dispute your 30 degree statement because the gun never actually get's to the 1 or 11 o'clock positions, but I held back. Glad to see you caught it.

Nice work and I look forward to your improvements. Sorry to hear the AT guns are giving you guys such headaches...
 

Slyk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
1,277
10
0
www.after-hourz.com
We are still figuring out some quirks of the engine and code. The guys are literally learning something new every day if not by the hour at times! One more reason we want to keep a uniform base line of control on the development/distribution of the gun going forward. The next update will have a lot of cool features, trust me. It might be almost as much fun to watch it in action as use it.
 

Slyk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
1,277
10
0
www.after-hourz.com
We are not implementing AT grenades. Just a series of AT guns. The BT is coming along as well and should be ready very soon. It has been in testing the last week and we are tweaking a few things to get it 'right'. It's a quick little tank and should be fun to operate, as at least one TW employee can comment on. ;)

I'll post a little teaser:

 

Ricky(SCO)

FNG / Fresh Meat
Hi Slyk,

Spawn protection minefields is definately something that needs adjusted.

I was on the Tripwire Server last night, carrying out full server tests of the map for the TW competition, and there was one flaw which an allied player exploited. I think the Germans had captured 1st Line at this point. An allied player in a T60 managed to get all the way behind the starting spawn point for the Germans and killed every German as they came out of the spawn hut. Eventually I came back from 1st Line and killed the guy in the T60.

I really enjoy Berezina, and Tractorworks too for that matter, and cannot believe that someone carried out that exploit during the judging. This guys actions didnt go down well at all.

You have an excellent map. I cant wait to see your next creation.

<RTR>Sgt.Ricky.EU
 

[TW]Ramm-Jaeger

Tripwire Interactive President
Oct 11, 2005
1,887
3,113
0
www.redorchestragame.com
Hi Slyk,

Spawn protection minefields is definately something that needs adjusted.

I was on the Tripwire Server last night, carrying out full server tests of the map for the TW competition, and there was one flaw which an allied player exploited. I think the Germans had captured 1st Line at this point. An allied player in a T60 managed to get all the way behind the starting spawn point for the Germans and killed every German as they came out of the spawn hut. Eventually I came back from 1st Line and killed the guy in the T60.

I really enjoy Berezina, and Tractorworks too for that matter, and cannot believe that someone carried out that exploit during the judging. This guys actions didnt go down well at all.

You have an excellent map. I cant wait to see your next creation.

<RTR>Sgt.Ricky.EU

I can attest to this as well because I was one of the poeple there getting spawn raped :) The guy was killing all the tanks just as they appear, parked about 10 meters away from them. You should really have a mine volume for that rear German tank spawn. Although, I actually didn't mind too much that the guy did it during judging, because its actually good to see when maps have possible exploits so we can give feedback to the mappers.
 

Slyk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
1,277
10
0
www.after-hourz.com
Sad to see that happen, but this is NOT a map error. This is an RO issue. I have had many many reports of it and present my case:
- With large maps that are dynamic and feature large moves of spawns and zones, you are going to have people get caught "behind enemy lines".
- What I have found through testing and gameplay is that if you are on FOOT, and inside a 'minefield zone' when it activates due to a capture, you die instantly. This happens on a few larger or more dynamic custom maps.
- If you are in a VEHICLE and are caught in the zone, you do not die and can wreck havoc as a spawn camper. I have done so on Bonderova, for instance. On that map you can run your T34 along the Russian left flank, get into some trees on the back side of the large hill with the windmill, and when the Germans cap the farm, they have a spawn area right in front of you by the stream. You can rape the crap out of them... I have done it, by mistake but nonetheless, the same instance.
- If you are in a vehicle and LEAVE the zone and re-enter, you will get a warning.

Try this off-line. Spawn as German and cap the Outpost, Crossroads, and 1st Line. Switch to Russian and run up the right/north flank and you will see what I have pictures of below...minus the BT7, of course ;)

The first shot is entering the spawn zone and the second is with the map up showing the capped locations. I believe I did have a bug in beta1 and maybe 2 but it was fixed by b3.

None of this excuses the abuse, and especially during a valued testing period. I hope the judges will experiment off-line to verify this. Thanks for pointing it out.



 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,797
890
0
55
Newton, NJ
I for one never ever get tired of this map. When I open up RO's browser, 'Berezina' is one of those magnets my eye is immediately drawn too. The recent addition of the AT Guns was great and of course everything will be better yet when the BT-7 is added in with its extras.

---eagerly anticipating the final--- :D