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The KF Community Beta

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#21
Regarding the demo spawn kit:

I had a similar idea to the demo kits, but it was give the demo 6 frags at level 5, then 6 frags + m69 at level 6

Aze said:
And now this is something weird, but gotta ask if its possible:
Is it possible to somehow swap out the Lasersight and the Aimpoint scope between the SCAR and M14? Changing the weapons entirely, while keeping their numerical (and further suggested) stats? :D
Why? To make them more fitting for their perks: Sharpshooter snipes better with a scope, Commando sweeps better with a lasersight
Click to expand...

That would require redoing the weapon models. Sadly, I am not a modeler so I have no idea how to do it.
 
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#22
scary ghost said:
Regarding the demo spawn kit:

I had a similar idea to the demo kits, but it was give the demo 6 frags at level 5, then 6 frags + m69 at level 6
Click to expand...
You mean M79 right? ^^

Rethinking my idea with yours as well, then how about:
Lvl 5 = 6 frags + 1 Pipebomb (so you have SOMETHING you can sell)
Lvl 6 = 6 frags + M79

Giving extra handgrenades is a good idea, because while you do get more firepower (or indirect money in terms of having to buy less stuff), it's not something you can sell, thus not an overpriced starting bonus imo :)

scary ghost said:
That would require redoing the weapon models. Sadly, I am not a modeler so I have no idea how to do it.
Click to expand...
Well, that's ok, i think what you guys are doing is great, making such an efforrt at rebalancing things. I hope at least some of my ideas are of any use and balanced enough :/
 
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#23
DDC1234 said:
I like all your suggestions but to ad one more thing the flamethrower needs penetration or ground flame that isn't just a extra animation with no real purpose.
Click to expand...

Well, while the FT doesn't have penetration, it actually does have a minor AoE, but it really is tiny though. With some penetration + clinging fire i think it would be even more awesome and versatile :)
 
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#24
I know this is strange but can you add a +15% damage bonus to all weapons at level 6 medic?

Unlike other perks, medics have to use other guns from other perks to be effective. This works well in normal and hard, when using base damage is still effective, but upon reaching suicidal and HOE, its use diminishes.

I want to see how effective would a medic perk be in helping the team combat the zeds with 15% damage bonus to all guns (even the medic gun, with the exception of course being grenades).
 
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#25
The question, though, would be for what reason? The Medic is a the healer and the last-minute tank to take a FP hit if things go down the toilet.

Is the team is buttoned up pretty well, a Medic can take a crossbow and take out medium-danger enemies, like Sirens and Husks, saving the Sharpshooters their valuable ammo. With an LAR he can combat Crawlers and save the Supports and their ammo. With a grenade launcher he can implode the trash mobs while the Demo saves up for the FP.

All that unperked.

I might agree on some buff to the medic gun, but not for anything else.
 
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#26
ChairmanMurder[Forge] said:
The question, though, would be for what reason? The Medic is a the healer and the last-minute tank to take a FP hit if things go down the toilet.

Is the team is buttoned up pretty well, a Medic can take a crossbow and take out medium-danger enemies, like Sirens and Husks, saving the Sharpshooters their valuable ammo. With an LAR he can combat Crawlers and save the Supports and their ammo. With a grenade launcher he can implode the trash mobs while the Demo saves up for the FP.

All that unperked.

I might agree on some buff to the medic gun, but not for anything else.
Click to expand...

The only time a medic would need to heal constantly if the team is not good, the "hole up" area isn't smart (Happens a lot in custom maps), or there was a mistake by someone in the team.

With a competent team, most of the medic's time is fighting rather than healing, so I would like to see them be able to deal a bit more damage on harder difficulties.

If not damage increase for all guns, there could be a fix for higher level medics. Higher damage for the medic gun or faster reload, or even less recoil with the medic gun would help a long way in higher difficulties for high level medics.
 
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#27
Kenero said:
With a competent team, most of the medic's time is fighting rather than healing, so I would like to see them be able to deal a bit more damage on harder difficulties.
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Like ChairmanMurder[Forge] said, unperked lar, xbow, and m79 are enough to take out husks and below, even on 6 man HoE. Add to that list: katana, axe, hand cannon, ak, and m32. Medic doesn't need a damage boost for any weapon when there are at least 8 weapons that do more than enough damage unperked.
 
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#28
Kenero said:
With a competent team, most of the medic's time is fighting rather than healing, so I would like to see them be able to deal a bit more damage on harder difficulties.
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Then my counter argument would be nix the medic entirely and make him another damage-dealer perk. A competent team, theoretically, wouldn't need a medic. But a good Medic is there to tank or do some rapid heals when the Siren slips through and yodels at you.

My argument isn't that the Medic shouldn't chip in on kills at all. Far from that. On Suicidal and HoE, it's practically essential that he scores some kills of his own.

What I'm disagreeing with is some supposed need for a damage boost. There are plenty of weapons that deal plenty of damage and have their niche for a squad's tactics.
 
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#32
Hmmm some good ones there Scary. I've had a toy around wiht them all except the Demo one :)

The Berserker is an interesting case cause he has had loads done to him. Impressins I got from him are: -
- By and large the fuel counter for the Chainsaw felt unneccesary and awkward. Given the lack of movement speed already applied when carrying the Chainsaw, coupled with its high weight, I feel the addition of fuel kinda makes the chainsaw rather pointless really. Axe and Katana beat it any day. I dunno, having ammo for the chainsaw just seems odd and out of place to me.
The alt fire headshot multiplyer I'm fne with though. No concerns there for me :)
- Damage resistance being dropped to 30% resistance I think I'm ok with, although I think I liked him having the larger 40% resistance to melee and nothing against ranged attacks better. It makes sense that a melee fighter would be using some kind of knife resistant armour and therefore be good at taking a hit, but its a little wierd to think he is also resistant to flames, bulelts and sonic weaponry.
Gameplay wise the Husk and Siren are the only things really that pose a threat to teh Berserker, but his damage resistance and speed negates taht somewhat. If however he has no resistance to then then when he gets caught by 1 of these 2 specimens, he is toast. That gives him a weakness that encourages him to play with his team.
Both gameplay wise and realism wise I think I liked the 40% melee resistance better :)

The support change really does make a huge difference, but its actually rather hard to detect. You don't really feel that much slower, but it is surprising how easy you can be overpowered if you are badly prepared. Crawlers and Gorefasts are suddenly a pain for the the support, once again requiring help form his team to really perform well, and it something I'm happy to see in the Support class finally.
With the removal of his nades, and this change, I'd be perfectly happy to say Support is adequetly balanced, even with all his tricks available to him :)

Firebug... Personally I am glad to get the Flamethrower back on level 6, although it is the main Firebug weapon, so I'm a little unsure as to whetehr or not its fair. I kick *** with the thing, and I'm not too hot with the Mac-10 even with armour, so I'm happy, but I'm unsure if its the correct move. :)

Commando has a great buff to the Scar. Although it isn't that noticable when going for headshots, or firing into general crowds, it really does give the Commando a cool little extra tool to do his job.
Key note in point, I tried fighting against a bloat and a siren. The Bloat has alot of body HP, and was in front completely protecting the Siren. However in I stepped with teh Scar and shot through the Bloat to kill the Siren with relative ease. The bloat was actually still alive after I had done it.
Its situations like that where this kind of change will excel, and I can't think of any class that would benefit more in their role than the Commmando. If nothing else, I hope TWI adds this change :)

Sadly the Stalker attack doesn't work, I just kept stepping back over and over to avoid her. Unless of course I was meant to install something else that I missed while skimming through :)

Overall though, very insightful changes there Scary. Nice work mate :)
 
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#33
Fuel was something Hateme suggested back in the beta. We were playing on foundry and Devante sat in a stairwell afk a wave with m1 down and we took turns healing him throughout the wave, lol.

Undedd Jester said:
Sadly the Stalker attack doesn't work, I just kept stepping back over and over to avoid her. Unless of course I was meant to install something else that I missed while skimming through :)
Click to expand...

Were you trying it on testmap? They don't spawn there because the map is scripted to spawn the default specimens. Instead, you should play a regular game and check them out on wave 2.
 
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#34
I actually got intrigued and tested this for a few maps LAN'ing with my friends. My tests were on Hard and Suicidal, not HoE because I didn't feel like being the last one alive every single wave (My buddies kinda suck...), but so far...


I actually like a lot of the changes. Ones I really liked:
-Support is actually slowed down, which makes them vulnerable if they don't have teammate assistance. Gorefasts, Crawlers, and Stalkers can actually catch a weighted-down supporter, so they tend to be a "Rear Guard" when the squad moves.
-Berserker damage resistance seems about right. Spawning with weapons besides the craptastic Chainsaw is a huge boost. Movespeed reduction and bile resistance reduction aren't very noticeable.
-Commando SCAR buff lets it feel like a legitimately powerful weapon, and less like "Bullpup 2.0!".
-Firebug weapon spawns seem correct now. Mac10 at 6 and Flamethrower at 5 seemed backwards.


A few parts I didn't like:
-Fuel for the Chainsaw felt utterly pointless. No one really used it anyway, and those that did just spammed Alt-Fire, which didn't use Fuel anyway...
-Sharpshooter didn't feel changed enough. EBR still sucks, spawning with the Handcannon at Level 6 was a let-down, and overall, the class just feels like it lacks punch using anything but the Crossbow.
-LAW still seems like a joke weapon, considering it has very little ammo and limits you to only the 9mm/machete.
-The game is pretty newbie-unfriendly with the changes. I mean, it wasn't newbie-friendly before with it's steep learning curve, but with things like Support having reduced speed and such, newbies get absolutely demolished.


No offense to the guys at TWI, because I know they're working on HoS, but...this is the kinda stuff they should be doing right now... Good to see that the community is trying to fix the balance problems that are otherwise being left untouched.
 
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#35
Nanostrike said:
Sharpshooter didn't feel changed enough. EBR still sucks, spawning with the Handcannon at Level 6 was a let-down, and overall, the class just feels like it lacks punch using anything but the Crossbow.
Click to expand...

Just gonna make a few notes about this part:
The EBR with the new 2.3 hs multiplier makes it awesome! You can oneshot (with headshot obviously) Husks and Sirens now even on 6-man HoE! Before, that was only possible on 5-man HoE, so its good statwise with HEADSHOTS.

Speaking of the "lacks punch" (i presume you mean bodyshot?) I have 2 things which i would love to test out, the first one being related to that issue:


1) A small rebalance in Sharpshooter damage bonuses:

Current bonus looks like this:
Perked weapons headshot bonus: 5/10/15/20/30/50/60%
General headshot bonus: 5/10/20/30/40/50/50%
Total perked headshot bonus: 10/20/38/56/82/125/140%

What i am proposing is a tiny bodyshot bonus to the Sharpie weapons, with these stats:
Perkweapon damage bonus (head and body!): 0/5/5/10/15/20/25%
Perkweapon headshot bonus: 5/10/14/18/22/25/28%
General headshot bonus: 5/10/20/30/40/50/50%
Total perked headshot bonus: 10/27/44/69/96/125/140%

As you can see, level 0, 5 and 6 remain untouched in power (meaning maximum power is the same for headshots at level 6), but the midlevels are changed a tad. But for the better, as they are now a bit more smoothly gained :)

So in essence, at level 6, you gain 25% more bodyshot damage with all Sharpshooter weapons, but the headshot damage remains unchanged!


2) A change of curiousity

Is it possible for you to do this:
Swap the SCAR and M14 between the Commando and Sharpshooter, and swap their stats too.
The SCAR would be a Sharpie weapon, 8 weight, 160 shots etc (with the stats of the M14)
The M14 would be a Commando weapon, 5 weight, 300 shots, the current SCAR-proposed penetrative bullets etc (aka with the stats of the SCAR)

The reason: To try a "Aimpoint-scoped M14" in the form of the SCAR for the Sharpie and to try a "Non-scoped, lasersighted SCAR" in the form of the M14 for the Commando. Yes, there will be the problem that the SCAR will be fullauto for the Sharpie, and yes, the M14 will only be semi-auto. But it would be cool to test out the theoretical idea of swapping the laser and scope and see how they "feel" for their respective perks, don't you think? :)
 
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#36
Aze said:
Commando
- Bullpup weight reduced to 5, from 6
- Bullpup headshot multiplier increased from 1.1 to 1.25
Why? Because the Bullpup is quite weak, almost too weak, especially for HoE.
- SCAR can pierce once, with a 50% damage on the 2nd target
- SCAR weight increased to 7, from 5
Why? To make the SCAR a more powerful "crowdcleanser", giving it some more oomph to its supposed tier 3 status
- Maybe increase the bonus damage to 60% level 6 (this is the only perk staying at 50% at level 6, all others have 60%)
Click to expand...

I agree with these. I have around 65M dmg with commando, and anyone who has played with me will say I am fairly decent at it. The bullpup is way too weak on HoE. I have no problem with aiming, I can wipe out a whole hall with one AK mag, usually, but I am hitting zeds in the head constantly and it basically does nothing. On suicidal and below, it is a head destroying laserbeam. On HoE, I usually use it exclusively wave 2 because I can make a lot of money off it, but it can't hang past wave 3 or so.

As for the M14, I have always been able to OSK the husk and siren on 6 man HoE, not sure about that.

I'll have to test the SCAR penetration stuff out sometime as well. As for the swap, get a good set of irons on the M14 and it might be ok, I have learned to use them, but they could definitely improve.
 
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#38
Rainydaykid said:
As for the M14, I have always been able to OSK the husk and siren on 6 man HoE, not sure about that.
Click to expand...
That might be cuz of several things:
1) Other have shoot their head as well (they only have about 5 health left on the head after the M14 shoots at the head on a 6-man HoE game. I'm 100% sure of this. Which means, even an offperk 9mm to the head is enough to decap it after that)
2) Are you sure all your teammates were alive? Because, if they weren't, if a Siren or Husk spawns with 5 or less people alive, they will have their health lowered and adjusted to the current amount of people alive.

I'll have to test the SCAR penetration stuff out sometime as well. As for the swap, get a good set of irons on the M14 and it might be ok, I have learned to use them, but they could definitely improve.
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Scary (afaik and from what he said previously), doesn't know how to animate and such, he is "only" extremely good with coding, thus why i suggested that as a workaround.
Oh, and it doesn't have to be part of this beta-thingy, i'd just like to try it out as a seperate little mutator :)

EDIT:
C_Gibby said:
I honestly think the best thing to do would be to give the Sharpie the SCAR scope on his M14 and have an unscoped SCAR with the laser sight... It'll require model edits of course, which I dunno if Jester/Scaryghost are up for, but I'm sure someone around here is. :p
Click to expand...
I 100% agreed, but like Scary said: He doesn't know how to do that. If someone else is up for it though, that would be awesome! :)
 
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#39
C_Gibby said:
I honestly think the best thing to do would be to give the Sharpie the SCAR scope on his M14 and have an unscoped SCAR with the laser sight... It'll require model edits of course, which I dunno if Jester/Scaryghost are up for, but I'm sure someone around here is. :p
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd point out this is all Scary's work, I take no credit for anything :)
 
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