The KF Community Beta

[Undedd Jester]

So, this has been running in the mod section for a bit now, but hasn't kicked up as much support as perhaps it should. So I, merely the messenger, am posting it here to garner more research for it out of the KF Community.

So balance is a hot topic in Killing Floor, but we rarely have anything concrete to go on with our suggestions. So Scary Ghost has rather awesomely made a little mutator that allows him to alter the stats of perks and test the suggestions that we as a community make.



NOTE: This is primarily a testing tool, not neccesarily complete ideas to put forward as changes to the actual game. The idea is to take a suggestion and give it a run and see how it effects the game. Both nerfs AND buffs will be explored. If you disagree with an idea, share it with teh community and explain why you disagree with it.

So far changes are:

Spoiler!

Wave 1 tweaks:

• Removed support's frag bonuses
• Changed zerker +40% resistance to only affect melee damage.
• Removed the Berseker's 80% Bloat Bile resitsance
• Reduced zerker's max speed back to +25%

Wave 2 tweaks:

• Sharpshooter
  • Gave 70% discount on Winchester
    • Upped Winchester base price to

 

[jd641]

I guess this is intended for people who play this game "hardcore" because with those three changed you've made so far, the average player is going to HATE this.

 

[scary ghost]

I guess this is intended for people who play this game "hardcore" because with those three changed you've made so far, the average player is going to HATE this.

The point of this is to implement ideas that the community puts out. Those 3 changes were just "what ifs" that Jester and I were curious about. I've seen several others thrown around in the Ideas forum such as slight increase in m14 hs multiplier and a new fire DOT mechanic. Everyone is always putting forth ideas, and few of them actually try them out in a real game.

 

[Undedd Jester]

I guess this is intended for people who play this game "hardcore" because with those three changed you've made so far, the average player is going to HATE this.

Well you know what they say.

Opinions are like arseholes... everyone's got one

 

[timur]

Wave 2 officially released.
brings back Bloat resistance, messes around with the Sharpshooter, and more!

The way its currently playing out, it promises to be a little harder, but not exactly a "hardcore" mode; just more of different. There are buffs alongside nerfs, and retierings and reworkings. I'm glad to see that these are being experimented with by the community, it really adds more than just theory to it all.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Updated

Cheers Timur

Interesting bunch of changes. Will be eager to see how the new Xbow buff effects the Sharpie

 

[Undedd Jester]

UK Server is up and running

Its not passworded however there is no redirect so you will need to download the files before hand. (That being said it only takes like a minute or so anyway). I will also have to alter your stats progress manually to give you level 6 perks.


Server IP is 109.70.148.112:8080
Big thanks to -MGS- Sniper for the help


Let us know if you want to join in

 

[C_Gibby]

Heyheyhey, I was wondering, have you thought at all about what could be done for the HC or dualies? (both HC and 9mm)

 

[scary ghost]

Heyheyhey, I was wondering, have you thought at all about what could be done for the HC or dualies? (both HC and 9mm)

I have seen others suggest simple solutions such as giving the medic some of the bonuses (recoil, reload speed) and more sophisticated solutions like holstering. However, I have not actively thought of implementing any of them yet because I don't personally use dual wield. Just let me know which ones you want to see and I'll give it a shot.

 

[scary ghost]

Chainsaw buff is nice, it's back to near Beta status which means insta-melting clots, crawlers, and stalkers. But, having no resistance to sirens and husks and halved resistance to bloats makes a chainsaw zerker completely dependent on the teammates to take them out fast. Perhaps reverting resistances back to the pre-balance batch values would do nicely.

YouTube - ‪Killing Floor - What If - 01‬‏

Also, I was able to implement fuel for the chainsaw, so suggestions for fuel capacity, price, and how much and ammo box would restore are welcome. I'll say right now that 100 units of fuel only lasts you about 10 seconds of continuous use.

 

[Aze]

Is it possible to add more ideas to this? Like:

Berserker
- Fuel the Chainsaw (like you said you can do Scary), maybe 2k ammo or something like that? Dunno what's balanced as it needs testing anyway.
- Ammoboxes give you 200?
- Primary fire uses 1 fuel per attack, Secondary fire uses 10 fuel?
- Increase altfire damage to equal to that of the Fire Axe's altfire (i think they are almost the same anyway, no?)
- Increase headshot multiplier to 1.25 (you should now also be able to stun a Scrake from a frontal altfire to the head!)
^ Why? That way, the Chainsaw becomes a real tier 3 beast, but it is limited, both in ammo and movement speed

Sharpshooter
- Crossbow price increased to 1000 or 1250, from 800
- Crossbow gets the 70% discount as well
- Maybe also reduce the bolts baseprice a tad? Or even by as much as 50%?
- Spawn with Crossbow at level 6 can then be redone again
Why? To make tier 2 weapon costs more similar between the perks.

Commando
- Bullpup weight reduced to 5, from 6
- Bullpup headshot multiplier increased from 1.1 to 1.25
Why? Because the Bullpup is quite weak, almost too weak, especially for HoE.
- SCAR can pierce once, with a 50% damage on the 2nd target
- SCAR weight increased to 7, from 5
Why? To make the SCAR a more powerful "crowdcleanser", giving it some more oomph to its supposed tier 3 status
- Maybe increase the bonus damage to 60% level 6 (this is the only perk staying at 50% at level 6, all others have 60%)

Demolitions
- Give a Handgrenade discount for Demolitions, 25% at level 0 - 2, and a 50% discount at level 3 - 6
Why? Well, Demolitions is quite expensive, this would ease that up a little bit
- Level 5 Demolitions start with 6-10 Handgrenades (instead of 1 pipebomb, or maybe + 1 pipebomb as well?)
Why? The current bonus (a pipebomb) is as good as useless as a spawning weapon. Handgrenades would be generally more useful as the starting weapon.
- Level 6 Demolitions start only with M79
Why? Well, to even out the starting money for all perks, making them all grant more or less equal values.

Firebug
- Reduce the weight of the Flamethrower to 8 or 9
Why? To give the Firebug some more flexibility.
- Level 5 Firebug start with Mac10
- Level 6 Firebug start with Flamethrower
Why? The current one doesnt make sense! Why start with a tier 2 weapon at level 5 and a tier 1 weapon (+armor) at level 6? Above change would make a lot more sense.

And now this is something weird, but gotta ask if its possible:
Is it possible to somehow swap out the Lasersight and the Aimpoint scope between the SCAR and M14? Changing the weapons entirely, while keeping their numerical (and further suggested) stats?
Why? To make them more fitting for their perks: Sharpshooter snipes better with a scope, Commando sweeps better with a lasersight

EDIT: Added explanations WHY i suggest these things.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Have played a couple of games with the new changes.

Berserker: I feel the bloat bile resistance is pretty good now. It rips through your armour like nobody's business, but doesn't kill you all too fast.
The removal of resistances to the Siren Scream and Husk and the reduction in movement speed are cool. It really forces Zerkers to up their game and play carefully if they want to survive. Also the movement speed being reduced makes that Fleshpound trick with the axe much harder to pull off.
I like the swaps around on the weapons too. Axe then Katana makes far more sense

I'm sure things can be tweaked for the Berserker, but overall I rather like the changes madde to him. He actually feels like he has a weakness again.

Sharpshooter: The LAR cost change is cool, does make off perk LARing more of a choice than just a given.
Giving out a Handcannon at level 6 is actually pretty clever, cause on the first round the HC is a beast, the Sharpie can't rely on it to sustain him. And the discount works well too
Haven't really had a chance to test the Xbox damage increase, but number wise it looks good to me

Support: Seems ok without his nades, although for the msot part unaffected. He can still solo FP's jsut fine but he can onl do it maybe once oe twice.
He is still incredibly versatile and will probably will become the new dominant perk over the Berserker, but there is little I can think of that nerfs him appropriately without crippling him.

 

[scary ghost]

Support: Seems ok without his nades, although for the msot part unaffected. He can still solo FP's jsut fine but he can onl do it maybe once oe twice.
He is still incredibly versatile and will probably will become the new dominant perk over the Berserker, but there is little I can think of that nerfs him appropriately without crippling him.

That is why I made the Super Zombies Mutator. The goal was to make the game challenging and different without nerfing the perks, which meant buffing the specimens. My super scrake, for example, is immune to attack interrupts from non-zerkers using melee weapons. It doesn't eliminate the katana+hsg trick, it just makes it harder to pull off because a chainsaw will be in your gut. Or, requires some teamwork, i.e. sharp/zerker stunning the scrake and support finishing it off. It would be interesting to see how they stack up against the new perks.

 

[Salad Snake]

Could more complicated tweaks like switching the Scar & M14's aiming devices or duel-wield tweaks be implemented? I feel like balance is nearly perfect except for those two things (and Zerker somewhat, not sure if giving the chainsaw limited fuel is overdoing it though, it's already not as useful as the katana for simple virtue of speed).

 

[Aze]

Could more complicated tweaks like switching the Scar & M14's aiming devices or duel-wield tweaks be implemented? I feel like balance is nearly perfect except for those two things (and Zerker somewhat, not sure if giving the chainsaw limited fuel is overdoing it though, it's already not as useful as the katana for simple virtue of speed).

While i did quite a lot of suggestions above for puny balancing issues (at least what i think are minor adjustments "needed"), i really agreed with this!

Regarding the Chainsaw though, i think it could be balanced correctly by empowering it further, without any troubles of becoming Overpowered:
Primary fire: 22-27 damage (as already done)
Secondary fire: 275 damage (the same as Axe altfire), maybe even slightly more?
Headshot multiplier: 1,25x (same as Knife, Machete and Axe)
Fuel: 1000? Primary fire costs 1, alt costs 10? Maybe more total fuel capacity?

This would make it equal to the Fire Axe with the Secondary fire, but at a slightly faster attack rate (correct, right?). The primary fire would be great for trash, while the secondary would be great for heavy targets like Siren, Husk and Scrake (and assisting on Fleshies if necessary). It might seem better than the Katana+Axe combo to some (as the Chainsaw's weight is exactly equal to the Katana+Axe as well), but remember: The Chainsaw is slower in movement speed, and it has limitted fuel, and costs more, both the initial purchase and due to having "ammo". It could possibly become the best teamplay weapon for the Zerker, and isn't that a good thing?
So making it an itsy bitsy bit stronger in power than Katana+Axe would not really be a problem

 

[drunkentiger]

In another thread, I saw an idea concerning the chainsaw which I liked. The proposal was to add a heat meter to the chainsaw, to limit its use instead of using fuel.

It may be an interesting way to balance the weapon. As you "fire" the chainsaw, the heat meter would fill up and you'd need to stop firing to let it cool down. Primary and secondary attacks would cause it heat up at different rates, of course.

Any opinions on this type of change?

Edit: to make chainsaw users pay closer attention to the heat meter, the cooldown rate could be variable. The cooldown time would scale in relation to the amount of heat built up prior to releasing the fire button. Less heat build-up = less cooldown time. If the user were to overheat the chainsaw, a time-based penalty would be incurred. Arbitrary example: If it takes 1.0s for the chainsaw to cool down from 100% heat, then overheating would increase that time to 1.5s

 

[Aze]

In another thread, I saw an idea concerning the chainsaw which I liked. The proposal was to add a "heat" meter to the chainsaw, to limit its use instead of using fuel.

It may be an interesting way to balance the weapon. As you "fire" the chainsaw, the heat meter would fill up and you'd need to stop firing to let it cool down. Primary and secondary attacks would cause it heat up at different rates, of course.

Any opinions on this type of change?

Imo, sounds like a good idea too
Further thought: Add a stamina-meter which gets depleted by all other melee weapons? Give Zerker bonus to max stamina?
I guess nutterbutter would love that addition

 

[drunkentiger]

Imo, sounds like a good idea too
Further thought: Add a stamina-meter which gets depleted by all other melee weapons? Give Zerker bonus to max stamina?
I guess nutterbutter would love that addition

Nonono we need trigger-finger stamina for all firearm-wielding perks.

 

[DDC1234]

Is it possible to add more ideas to this? Like:

Berserker
- Fuel the Chainsaw (like you said you can do Scary), maybe 2k ammo or something like that? Dunno what's balanced as it needs testing anyway.
- Ammoboxes give you 200?
- Primary fire uses 1 fuel per attack, Secondary fire uses 10 fuel?
- Increase altfire damage to equal to that of the Fire Axe's altfire (i think they are almost the same anyway, no?)
- Increase headshot multiplier to 1.25 (you should now also be able to stun a Scrake from a frontal altfire to the head!)
^ Why? That way, the Chainsaw becomes a real tier 3 beast, but it is limited, both in ammo and movement speed

Sharpshooter
- Crossbow price increased to 1000 or 1250, from 800
- Crossbow gets the 70% discount as well
- Maybe also reduce the bolts baseprice a tad? Or even by as much as 50%?
- Spawn with Crossbow at level 6 can then be redone again
Why? To make tier 2 weapon costs more similar between the perks.

Commando
- Bullpup weight reduced to 5, from 6
- Bullpup headshot multiplier increased from 1.1 to 1.25
Why? Because the Bullpup is quite weak, almost too weak, especially for HoE.
- SCAR can pierce once, with a 50% damage on the 2nd target
- SCAR weight increased to 7, from 5
Why? To make the SCAR a more powerful "crowdcleanser", giving it some more oomph to its supposed tier 3 status
- Maybe increase the bonus damage to 60% level 6 (this is the only perk staying at 50% at level 6, all others have 60%)

Demolitions
- Give a Handgrenade discount for Demolitions, 25% at level 0 - 2, and a 50% discount at level 3 - 6
Why? Well, Demolitions is quite expensive, this would ease that up a little bit
- Level 5 Demolitions start with 8-10 Handgrenades (instead of 1 pipebomb, or maybe + 1 pipebomb as well?)
Why? The current bonus (a pipebomb) is as good as useless as a spawning weapon. Handgrenades would be generally more useful as the starting weapon.
- Level 6 Demolitions start only with M79
Why? Well, to even out the starting money for all perks, making them all grant more or less equal values.

Firebug
- Reduce the weight of the Flamethrower to 8 or 9
Why? To give the Firebug some more flexibility.
- Level 5 Firebug start with Mac10
- Level 6 Firebug start with Flamethrower
Why? The current one doesnt make sense! Why start with a tier 2 weapon at level 5 and a tier 1 weapon (+armor) at level 6? Above change would make a lot more sense.

And now this is something weird, but gotta ask if its possible:
Is it possible to somehow swap out the Lasersight and the Aimpoint scope between the SCAR and M14? Changing the weapons entirely, while keeping their numerical (and further suggested) stats?
Why? To make them more fitting for their perks: Sharpshooter snipes better with a scope, Commando sweeps better with a lasersight

EDIT: Added explanations WHY i suggest these things.

I like all your suggestions but to ad one more thing the flamethrower needs penetration or ground flame that isn't just a extra animation with no real purpose.

 

[Steeps]

Support: Seems ok without his nades, although for the msot part unaffected. He can still solo FP's jsut fine but he can onl do it maybe once oe twice.
He is still incredibly versatile and will probably will become the new dominant perk over the Berserker, but there is little I can think of that nerfs him appropriately without crippling him.

I was just going to request additional changes to the support specialist because of this. With the demolitions perk the 11 perked grenades seems excessive and unnecessary, but getting rid of it really does not make the perk much less powerful and won't stop 3-4/6 of the squad members from picking it.

I previously suggested re-scaling the support's weight in proportion to the rest of the perks. So with 15/24kg he has the same speed as 15/15kg for the rest of the perks minus medic and zerker. With 24/24kg he is a bit slower than the rest. I'm not sure how this would actually play out and for all I know it could be a terrible idea, but I think it is worth testing.