• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

What We Are Up To - Workshop

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
#22
I suppose the other side of the coin is how will it effect server hosting? A whitelist of servers? Reliance on more peer to peer?

Sure, being able to download an up to date version of a map or mod for single player is great. But server side management is going to be a nightmare in it's current state.

I don't mean to rain on any ones parade here, continued support and development for KF is amazing, I just want to avoid opening Pandora's box here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lacedaemonius
Upvote 0
#23
slavek said:
Same questions I have highlighted. I love the idea of the workshop as it will help us distribute out community content; However how will we "protect" our work? By protect I mean:


  • People lifting stuff off servers or lifting test/incomplete versions of mods that are not ready for full public download and uploading it to the workshop.
  • People making modifications to one's work and passing it off as their own.
  • Downright stealing ones work and passing it off as their own/ uploading it to the workshop.
  • People making proper modifications when allowed but not renaming the packages thus creating version mismatches.
  • A lesser problem: People uploading duplicate mods/maps.


It would be great to get some more info on how the above will be handled.
Click to expand...
Don't forget it will be visible to everyone, including us. It won't be hard for us to figure out who the originator of any work is - we know most of you anyway and so does the community at large. Only the originator should be uploading anything. Any "lifted" versions will be immediately apparent. Anyone claiming it as their own risks a permanent account ban on Steam. To be honest, we feel this will make these things both more visible to us - and more actionable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spicy
Upvote 0
#24
Although the issue of copyright and stuff will be a big thing, my question is, what will be added in the workshop? Heres all I can think of:

  • Maps
  • Weapon Reskins
  • Character/trader/zed reskins
  • Weapon sound mods
  • Zed sound mods
  • HUD or GUI (I forget which is which) mods
  • Main menu layout
  • Music mods
  • Weapons balanced
  • Server searching layout
  • Max performance setup
  • Max quality setup
  • Vehicles & other objects, reskins
  • Bug fixes (like glitches, bugs, and exploits that are well known)


Now, as much as I would love to see these things available, many of these things are already available to players, but they arent whitelisted. IMO, the things that I have selected in bold, should be available as whitelisted unless that certain mod is made as a way to cheat. Maps will always need testing before releasing, weapon abilities and stats will need to be tested too, and bug fixes should be checked, just to make sure they arent "fixed" to make them actually easier to exploit.

Either way, I am really happy to see kf in the steam workshop. I just hope no one tries to abuse it, and that the comunity is able to keep track on things.
 
Upvote 0
#25
The problem with reskins is you cant perform it client side only. Not unless you bypass the current security system.

And given the nature of the Unreal Engine as I know it it doesn't matter what you have installed, the server you join needs to be running it for it to work.

Which leads onto will there be further development in the server browser and listen server control? Because this kind of thing is going to have to rely on a lot more peer to peer gameplay rather than dedicated servers.

Although one idea would be a host could designate the server to be 'hijackable' like some L4D servers in where a party could join it with selected muts and they'd become active. But then you are looking at one hell of a job on the server/networking side of things. I'm just throwing ideas out there now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spicy
Upvote 0
#26
Left 4 Dinner said:
  • Weapon Reskins
  • Character/trader/zed reskins
  • Weapon sound mods
  • Zed sound mods
  • HUD or GUI (I forget which is which) mods
  • Main menu layout
  • Music mods
  • Vehicles & other objects, reskins
Click to expand...
Not 100% on this but if it overwrites base packages (like most of these do) I don't think it can be included because of it's potential to break the game so badly either immediately or if updated. Despite having the lowest risk of causing conflicts, obvious infringement may prevent most (all?) music mods from submission.
 
Upvote 0
#27
zYnthetic said:
[/LIST]Not 100% on this but if it overwrites base packages (like most of these do) I don't think it can be included because of it's potential to break the game so badly either immediately or if updated. Despite having the lowest risk of causing conflicts, obvious infringement may prevent most (all?) music mods from submission.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but then my question still stands at what will be added, or atleast what can be added to the game, period. Right now, the only things that can work, are character skins, all sound/music waves, and custom initial starting game picture. Oh, and the max performance/quality could work too if that were added.
 
Upvote 0
#28
  • Maps - Easy and probably going to be the most common.
  • Weapon Reskins - Can't be done without by passing engine's version control *
  • Character/trader/zed reskins - Can't be done without by passing engine's version control */**
  • Weapon sound mods - Can't be done without by passing engine's version control *
  • Zed sound mods - Can't be done without by passing engine's version control *
  • HUD or GUI (I forget which is which) mods - HUD is feedback, GUI you interact with. Can't be edited unless using a Mutator.
  • Main menu layout - Hardcoded into base game.
  • Music mods - You can only overwrite the existing music, not a very good way of doing it.
  • Weapons balanced - Has to be a mutator
  • Server searching layout - Hardcoded into base game.
  • Max performance setup - See comment below
  • Max quality setup - Not sure what you are after here. Game runs from really simple to as high as the art assets and engine allow as far as I can tell unless there is something specific you mean.
  • Vehicles & other objects, reskins - Mods and muts, server side implementation
  • Bug fixes (like glitches, bugs, and exploits that are well known) - Mutators

* There are mutator versions of these around but they have to be ran by the server.
** Player Character reskins are easier to do but require overwriting base packages.

The problem with a lot of these is that the aesthetic control a lot of people might be interested in. ie the weapon reskins can only be achieved by a mutator which has to be ran by a server. The only other way is by essentially bypassing the engine's version control and overwriting base packages. Not a good way of doing things.

I'm interested in how this is going to be implemented server side more that what is going to be implemented. Workshop will amazing for solo and listen servers (provided any user joining a listen server downloads the mods from the workshop upon joining) Otherwise it's going to be very bloody hard finding a server running your specific mix of mods/muts. And lets face it. Even with the improvements of the net dedicated servers are still the way forward.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#29
I think some of us may have been spoiled by Source client-side modifications. Bypassing version control isn't really the issue so much as most of these of mod types not utilizing the intended modification system for Unreal Engine games. It's nice to have these things but it's a shame to see most of them only make it halfway. I'm hoping that the workshop will provide extra incentive to drive authors to completion, integrating these kinds of mods with this engine's mod system.
 
Upvote 0
#30
Gartley said:
  • Max performance setup - See comment below
  • Max quality setup - Not sure what you are after here. Game runs from really simple to as high as the art assets and engine allow as far as I can tell unless there is something specific you mean.
Click to expand...

Those can be set to a key in your user.ini, an alias setup for high details, one for low details and a key to toggle. I dont think i'd want anything touching my user.ini
 
Upvote 0
#31
Gartley said:
The problem with a lot of these is that the aesthetic control a lot of people might be interested in. ie the weapon reskins can only be achieved by a mutator which has to be ran by a server. The only other way is by essentially bypassing the engine's version control and overwriting base packages. Not a good way of doing things.
Click to expand...
So there are two ways of achieving a custom texture in Killing Floor: the first involves creating a cumbersome mutator (coding is typically not one of an artist's skills), waiting a year for it to be whitelisted (if Tripwire whitelists it), and then finally desperately hoping some server will choose to adopt a mutator that does nothing but alter one texture and forces the change (and the download time!) on everyone who joins. If this series of improbable events occur, you're then forever pigeonholed into this one (I sincerely you'd find more than one) server if you want to enjoy the fruits of your labor which, to reiterate, it just a simple custom texture.

On the other hand, the sole alternate method takes literally seconds to do and allows you to use your custom texture in any server in the here and now. It's not forced upon anyone, so every client is free to enjoy the game as they please. Everyone's happy all around. It's hard to find a more ideal solution.

But for some reason, the latter method is the bad way of doing things, is it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spicy
Upvote 0
#32
I can see where you pulled that I think it's 'bad'. I simply stand on the principle that bypassing an engine's version control that is in place to enforce compatibility is not the right way forward. It opens a WHOLE world of problems if misused or badly implemented. And a texture replacement mutator is one line of code that has been pasted all over the net so it's not much of an excuse. Maybe not the correct way of doing things is better.

On the subject of the white list. I personally think the white list needs to be revised. Despite TWI best efforts it's far to easy to still bump skills up to level 6 and these days I feel is now more of a hindrance than help despite TWIs best efforts.

I'm all up for seeing what people can produce and promoting modders. But it has to be done properly.

EDIT
It might be worth pointing out that there was a thread detailing how to do reskins in this manner but it was not long before it was removed (3or4 days?). That shows TWIs current stance on editing the base packages and bypassing version control. If there was someway to work around it I'd be all for making it easier.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#34
slavek said:
I think we all know what I meant out of context, no need to argue over semantics. Some of us have legit concerns over this topic and we don't need crap like this started.
Click to expand...

Just because I know and you know the difference between theft and copyright infringement doesn't mean everyone knows, and incorrectly referring to it as something it is not only encourages those that do not understand the difference to make that mistake in the future, but in earnest. The difference between "then" and "than" is semantics. The difference between a civil and criminal offense is not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#35
Gartley said:
Spoiler!
Click to expand...


False about trader/character/zed skins. I have about 5 custom skins for 5 of the characters in the game, and I was able to use a custom trader skin (made her lok and sound like Zoey from L4D), AND there is a custom file set that replaces the zeds, including patty, with things from L4D. All of these things are playable on most servers, and I do not have to run any mutators.

As for the weapons, its a shame they have to have a mutator for them, but theres a few of the weapon reskins that I would love to see added. The biggest one IMO, is the Lever Action Rifle because someone here made a beautiful custom skin to it, and it gave it a really nice vintage touch to it.

Either way, I too am interested in seeing where this change takes KF. I truly hope its for the better, because this will easily motivate players into working into making new stuff
 
Upvote 0
#36
Correction, TRUE.

I mentioned that player skins were easier to do, because you can just edit the CharacterName.upl with a text editor to change what it uses. Although the client either has to keep backups or verify cache to revert.

The others you are using have had the created new packages edited using a hex editor to change their GUID to match that of existing packages. Which is bypassing the UE's version control. Which is the biggest 'problem' when it comes to implementing half of these mods. Remember; KF is Unreal, not Source and we have to work within those limitations.

A agree about the Retro Lar. But that's why I made the mutator for it. So people could run it.
 
Upvote 0
#37
zYnthetic said:
I find it hard to believe you see nothing at all wrong with this. In that KF is a coop game serves as no argument to accept the obvious exploit it represents.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that you're referring to "texture hacks?" [I always forget if the question mark goes inside or outside the quotation. -_- ] Something like (for example CS or COD or whatever) making one team's player models blue and the other's red or green? Sort of a cracked-out color-blind assist mode.

I remember seeing one a year or two ago that made the zed bodies red and the heads green. I don't know if it did anything to the Stalker/ Patriarch cloak (I assume it did). However I was under the impression that red and green looked the same to a color-blind person (friends' high school woes about driving). And other games tend to use a nice cyan to replace green.

Out of that, breaking cloak would be the most troubling change. Stalkers get in the way of everything and always die horrible deaths, so I'm only really concerned about the Pat fight. :3

But at the same time I really enjoy the MW3 weapon models that half-dead made, mainly because of the iron and red-dot sights on them. Same goes for slappy_cromwell's film-grain removal texture.
 
Upvote 0
#40
Gartley said:
Correction, TRUE.

I mentioned that player skins were easier to do, because you can just edit the CharacterName.upl with a text editor to change what it uses. Although the client either has to keep backups or verify cache to revert.

The others you are using have had the created new packages edited using a hex editor to change their GUID to match that of existing packages. Which is bypassing the UE's version control. Which is the biggest 'problem' when it comes to implementing half of these mods. Remember; KF is Unreal, not Source and we have to work within those limitations.

A agree about the Retro Lar. But that's why I made the mutator for it. So people could run it.
Click to expand...

Agree. With Unreal, thigns are difficult to change. Also, since you were the one to make that retro LAR, I have to say that I really liked it. I just felt right. Too bad it isnt whitelisted. And I think it was black listed or something, because my perks were removed when I had that mutator running. Anyhow, TWI must have some sort reason for this, or else they wouldnt have done something like this lol
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Community News
Forums
Merch
Menu