Tweaking has to end NOW!

[Holy.Death]

Sorry, I do not have to ASSUME anything.

Not exactly true. You HAVE to assume something - if you're not SURE about it - to form some basic ground for any further action. Basing only on what you know (or witness) is really hard. For example: each player in game can possibly be male or female. Most of people just assume they are males as they form majority of the players.

We all know what the word "assume" really means.

Do we? I honestly have no idea what you try to suggest. For me it means what it means, here is an example.

If I suspect someone is using "tweaks" to cheat, you know exactly what's going to happen. Some, if not all, tweaks aimed at changing a game's design can be considered cheats as far as taking an unfair advantage by altering an otherwise level playing field.

Of course, I agree with you on this. Problem is that some can label another player as cheater when he is just good. For some killing shoot from X meters distance when they didn't see the shooter is cheating.

I played with acquaintance of mine once. We were on the opposing teams. He killed me on the ground level (map was Pavlov's House) when I tried to get out of Zab's House. When I respawned I went straight on top of the building and shot him and his companion who were laying flat behind some cover - making easier targets from the above. He was suprised that I managed to do this.

And in game there are much more such situations. Target enters the window you actually cover with your sniper rifle and dies in an instant. You notice enemy's head poping over the wall and prepare yourself when he does that again and so on... There probably are cheats, I met them in some games, but we should separate real cheaters (people using cheats and "tweaking the game" to gain advantage) from people who just adjust their settings to make their game run better on their PC.

 

[Das Bose]

There probably are cheats, I met them in some games, but we should separate real cheaters (people using cheats and "tweaking the game" to gain advantage) from people who just adjust their settings to make their game run better on their PC.

I'm afraid I can't agree. Where do you draw the line?

The game ( games in general ) should check if you are running anything that could be considered cheating and force disable/enable the setting as required.

" Oh but what about me, my pc is 10 years old and I have to run in 16 bit/ disable grass, foliage e.t.c to get a decent fps " Sorry but tough, the world of PC gaming has moved on, and you need to as well, or keep finding games you can't play above a slideshow.

Just my opinion of course but I live my life along the same lines. Can't afford it?

Do without until you can, it won't do you any harm.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Do we? I honestly have no idea what you try to suggest. For me it means what it means, here is an example.

Ask anyone who's "tuned in" what assume means.

No wall of text from me. Exploits are wrong - regardless of the reason or justification. Its just plain WRONG.

End of story.

 

[ightenhill]

"He who has the last word is generally wrong" Frasier Crane

 

[Holy.Death]

I'm afraid I can't agree. Where do you draw the line?

That's the question I keep asking myself.

" Oh but what about me, my pc is 10 years old and I have to run in 16 bit/ disable grass, foliage e.t.c to get a decent fps " Sorry but tough, the world of PC gaming has moved on, and you need to as well, or keep finding games you can't play above a slideshow.

If that were true people would only see recommended system requirements, not minimal and recommended. The message is different: this game can run on any PC from these to these requirements, with various level of details.

Just my opinion of course but I live my life along the same lines. Can't afford it?

Do without until you can, it won't do you any harm.

And why people should follow your rules not the man next to you or anyone else's rules at all? Your rules apply to you. Their rules apply to them.

Ask anyone who's "tuned in" what assume means.

I don't even know what "tuned in" means, let alone whom to ask about it.

P.S. If you think that was a wall of text then you didn't see real wall of text yet.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

I don't even know what "tuned in" means, let alone whom to ask about it.

P.S. If you think that was a wall of text then you didn't see real wall of text yet.

Then I guess you'll never know.

Do that WALL of TEXT - we need a wailing wall.

 

[Oldih]

I haven't touched RO2 gamma settings yet the game is bright enough to give diabetes to someone. Perhaps I need to default my monitor settings and that small colour saturation tweak from my GPU settings just to be extra fair and be blinded by even more bright yet dull lightning the otherwise working monitor would vomit in my face? Do I also need to change my Radeon because even to this day I still say Soviets have odd "sheen" on them even in dark areas, and Germans have funny "outline" for lack of better word. Doesn't matter if it's Pavlov's House or Red October Factory, I can still tell instantly humanoid from another humanoid in game.

So what next, gouge my eyes out or revert back to the factory settings which makes my screen even brighter than it already is?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

... Do I also need to change my Radeon because even to this day I still say Soviets have odd "sheen" on them even in dark areas, and Germans have funny "outline" for lack of better word. Doesn't matter if it's Pavlov's House or Red October Factory, I can still tell instantly humanoid from another humanoid in game...

That is part of the problem (by default), I don't think that avatars absorb/reflect light the same as their surroundings. They really do tend to stand out more more than other objects in darkened surroundings and thus are often easier to see at times. Its not terrible by any means, but its definitely noticeable. Its probably more noticeable on the Russians just because their uniforms aren't as grey as the Germans.

 

[r5cya]

Then I guess you'll never know.

Do that WALL of TEXT - we need a wailing wall.

hell with it. i'll explain it to him.
"when you assume, you make an *** out of u and me". get it now? it's a very old saying.

 

[Holy.Death]

r5scya - Honestly speaking I see no point in this game of words. It's nice saying, but nevertheless meaningless to the topic as I can quote something similar with different results. In the end of the day it's still opinion versus opinion and my question in this regard still demands answer.

 

[melipone]

Some, if not all, tweaks aimed at changing a game's design can be considered cheats as far as taking an unfair advantage by altering an otherwise level playing field.

This is murky as Holy.Death said

Take a game like Counter-Strike. You won't find anyone except complete newbies who don't tweak their ini (.cfg in cs) files. If you don't tweak in CS you will see people a fraction of a second later or damage will apply slightly later. You won't see players when all the other players would see someone. You may think you are concealed but are not (commands like that are now locked I think tho).

What valve did is take certain console commands and lock them so the game is fair for everyone. People will still load custom ini (cfg) files though every time they play, just so they get the things Valve missed or didn't consider were worth locking (they still didn't lock interp I believe)

The longer RO2 is played, the more likely it will be that normal .ini settings materialise that everyone will use just so they don't put themselves at a disadvantage. Whats needed is for any settings that could give someone an advantage to not be kept secret. You need the devs to be aware of this stuff so they can decide which settings are OK for multiplayer and can lock ones that people end up using to stay on a level playing field.

Its a bit different with RO2 though ofc, its a different type of game. Need to be aware of which commands can give an advantage though and try to ensure people don't feel they have to tweak too much to stay competitive

 

[Proud_God]

The issue is that playing in a dark map is only fun if you know other players see the map as equally dark. It would be awesome though.

 

[fiftyone]

Well, might as well do away with video options, lets go play wiht a GameCube and turn up the brightness on the television.
ffs.
I'm going home.

 

[r5cya]

r5scya - Honestly speaking I see no point in this game of words. It's nice saying, but nevertheless meaningless to the topic as I can quote something similar with different results. In the end of the day it's still opinion versus opinion and my question in this regard still demands answer.

it's not a "game of words". you said you had no idea what mike meant. i explained it. had you not said you didn't know what he was talking about, i wouldn't have bothered to explain it. i didn't see any reason for you to be confused next time someone says "we all know what happens when you assume".
back to the topic... if i use the console to turm my gamma to 2.5, is that cheating? cause my lcd monitor is so dark i have a hard time seeing things even on daytime maps. is that how it is on everyones monitor? probably not. some probably want the gamma less than 2. is that cheating as well?

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Using "in-game" menu controls.... is fine. As is normal gamma adjustments but to intentionally remove fog, foliage etc.. forget it.

The REAL and ONLY issue is; There is nothing murky about unscrupulous players taking unfair advantage of other players in the game through the use of exploits. I consider that cheating in one of the most dastardly, underhanded and deceptive manners.

On MY servers.... be advised it'll bring an immediate BAN.

That's my decision and its not open for debate.

No Debate - No Arguments - Nothing Further
​

 

[r5cya]

This is murky as Holy.Death said

Take a game like Counter-Strike. You won't find anyone except complete newbies who don't tweak their ini (.cfg in cs) files. If you don't tweak in CS you will see people a fraction of a second later or damage will apply slightly later. You won't see players when all the other players would see someone. You may think you are concealed but are not (commands like that are now locked I think tho).

What valve did is take certain console commands and lock them so the game is fair for everyone. People will still load custom ini (cfg) files though every time they play, just so they get the things Valve missed or didn't consider were worth locking (they still didn't lock interp I believe)

The longer RO2 is played, the more likely it will be that normal .ini settings materialise that everyone will use just so they don't put themselves at a disadvantage. Whats needed is for any settings that could give someone an advantage to not be kept secret. You need the devs to be aware of this stuff so they can decide which settings are OK for multiplayer and can lock ones that people end up using to stay on a level playing field.

Its a bit different with RO2 though ofc, its a different type of game. Need to be aware of which commands can give an advantage though and try to ensure people don't feel they have to tweak too much to stay competitive

that makes so much sense! great post!

 

[Holy.Death]

it's not a "game of words". you said you had no idea what mike meant. i explained it.

I appreciate your help. I meant it's "game of words" as Mike was simply... playing with a word for no real purpose for the topic itself.

back to the topic... if i use the console to turm my gamma to 2.5, is that cheating? cause my lcd monitor is so dark i have a hard time seeing things even on daytime maps. is that how it is on everyones monitor? probably not. some probably want the gamma less than 2. is that cheating as well?

That's why I said much depends on intent, for once Mike said something I can agree in full:

Using "in-game" menu controls.... is fine. As is normal gamma adjustments but to intentionally remove fog, foliage etc.. forget it.

Pretty much this. That's why I said ealier that much depends on intent. If someone is intentionally changing files to gain an unfair advantage then he can go play with bots. If you simply tweak your settings to your PC's performance then no one has the right to claim you're cheating. Yes, it creates divide in competition level (for example in Star Wars: Battlefront people were playing in low details, because it'd allow them to spot people more easily, which is plain stupid gameplay-wise) and some certain level of environment should be maintained (for example ARMA 2 still uses bushes, only in low quality).

Saying that people should play in one-true-and-only settings and restraint themselves if they can't buy PC that's good enough to run it is wrong. No, thank you. I prefer what we have now, with the ability to set my PC the way I like and change game details how I see fit and play the games I like (for example more complicated strategies and more realistic shooters). Perhaps it's the people who think differently - that there must be one true setting for games - should buy themselves a console, because then they won't have problems with varying game settings.

I am not throwing everyone out, but I wonder it must be me to be thrown out of the place I like for the sake of... of what exactly? Equality? Saying: "All criminals should be punished" is easy. Nobody is defending cheaters. Finding - and defining, as it seems - one amongst the crowd is a hard task.

 

[Nik21]

Using "in-game" menu controls.... is fine. As is normal gamma adjustments but to intentionally remove fog, foliage etc.. forget it.

This is why we need PunkBuster CVAR-Checks.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

This is why we need PunkBuster CVAR-Checks.

Absolutely correct.

 

[fiftyone]

Thats better...