The LAW

[Sammers]

Right, I do not know what to think if this situation. I was on a normal server with a few friends who recently bought KF. We were playing on Filthscross and it was the Patriarch. I figure if I go my amazing loadout for whatever perk, I'd make the Patriarch too easy for my friends, so I go level 6 Demo and take the LAW and nothing else. An overall "bad" loadout from the view of the veteran players.
It killed the Patriarch in three hits. Two to make him go heal, he then heald, ran back, one more shot and dead. Does it really need a buff? Or do you guys think it's only because I was high level, normal server? There were only three of us in the server too.
I keep thinking the right choice is simply that my Demo level is tankish and the LAW is super strong for Demo and it was only on normal, but three shots still seems very powerful to me, so I am unsure.

 

[YoYoBatty]

I think the level 5 or 4 boost that the demo perk gives the LAW shud be it's standard damage.

 

[Sammers]

I think the level 5 or 4 boost that the demo perk gives the LAW shud be it's standard damage.

Yeah but......then I would have been killing the Patty in one hit and that would be ridiculously easy. At least.....for Normal anyway.

 

[cvspartan101]

Hmm, that does seem a bit powerful. The Patty has 10,000 HP on a 3 man normal, plus his three heals. The LAW does a base damage of 850, but with the lvl 6 demo, you do 60% more damage, so idk. I'm sort of new to KF myself, so, idk.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

Does it really need a buff?

Yes, because it is a laughably weak, overpriced, and overall useless weapon.

 

[Merin Redplate]

No gun in KF is "useless", some are just better than others. If you know how to use them, that is.

 

[Johnny Darko]

Normal server as a lv6 has you killing the Patiarch in a pathetic amount of hits as ANY perk with almost any tier 2 and up weapon, really. Crossbow for example can two-shot 3 man normal Patriarch easily.

 

[Salad Snake]

The L.A.W. is still one of the worse/useless weapons in the game next to the machete, dual 9mm's, and (possibly) the M79.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

The L.A.W. is still one of the worse/useless weapons in the game next to the machete, dual 9mm's, and (possibly) the M79.

Useful for having fun taunting the patriarch, bad for specimens at close range.

 

[trilance]

Yes, because it is a laughably weak, overpriced, and overall useless weapon.

Can't kill a Bloat in a direct hit and is really just a "for fun" weapon.

 

[smilin]

I think your success was more due to it being a Normal difficulty.


We had a guy the other day who was an outstanding medic but people were dying anyway. He then did what he called "preventative medicine" and bought a LAW.

OMG we were cracking up. There was just spit and *** everywhere. It's all late wave like 9 or something and every time we hit Zed-Time it seems a flying dildo goes by from that thing and KABOOM. I forgot what the blast radius is like.

Effective weapon? meh...sure but it would still be a last choice.
Fun weapon? Absolutely. If nothing else for the comic gold of having someone step in front of the shooter.

What about 6x LAW shooters on a FF server. hehe.

 

[Evilsod]

No gun in KF is "useless", some are just better than others. If you know how to use them, that is.

Don't start spouting philosophical bull****. The LAW was weak before the Demo, now its the definition of useless.

Right, I do not know what to think if this situation. I was on a normal server with a few friends who recently bought KF. We were playing on Filthscross and it was the Patriarch. I figure if I go my amazing loadout for whatever perk, I'd make the Patriarch too easy for my friends, so I go level 6 Demo and take the LAW and nothing else. An overall "bad" loadout from the view of the veteran players.
It killed the Patriarch in three hits. Two to make him go heal, he then heald, ran back, one more shot and dead. Does it really need a buff? Or do you guys think it's only because I was high level, normal server? There were only three of us in the server too.
I keep thinking the right choice is simply that my Demo level is tankish and the LAW is super strong for Demo and it was only on normal, but three shots still seems very powerful to me, so I am unsure.

Er, unless you weren't the only 1 shooting those numbers are way off.

LAW deals 850 (+200) damage per shot, even with Demo 60% bonus you barely get past 1500 damage (unless you get a headshot which does x2 impact damage) and the pats health scales from 4000 to 19000 on normal. And whether its good against the Pat or not isn't the issue (it has to compete with the xbow where it fails miserably and when the pats health is twice that on Hard/Suicidal it really looks pitiful), its whether its good in general which it is far, far from.
Its damage in a single shot is by far the highest excluding crossbow headshots, but everything about it is pitiful in comparison to the M32 which can do substantially more if you unload the full 6 grenades if its necessary.

 

[smilin]

This thread inspired me. I just talked to a teammate.

We're going to kill patty with 6x LAWs. Might even turn on FF.

hehe wish me good luck (ALL of it)

 

[Undedd Jester]

I still maintain the L.A.W. is more useful than the M79 or M32. At least it is for me. I can't use the M32 for beans, even as experienced as I am I spam like wildfire and totally blind the team.

M79 isn't bad, I like to stack grenades and blast em with the M79 but it gets annoying when this is a tactic you use on groups of bloody gorefasts cause the M79 isn't powerful enough to do it on its own.

The L.A.W. on the other hand oblierates all low and a good number of mid specimens in 1 shot over a pretty large area. If it doesn't kill them, most get stunned instead (including Scrakes), leaving a nice easy target for the rest of the team. Fleshpounds although aren't a great target for the L.A.W., if the sharpoe misses the Decap the LAW can still do a decent enough slap of damage, and take out any little speicmens trying to skulk in behind and pick off the players the FP leaves behind. Also with simply how cool it is, I find myself actually having fun with the L.A.W. and not doing too shabby either on the old kill count.

Admittedly other weapons are far more versatile, but as with all muck about weapons, as long as your team focuses on good team work and you use your weapon sensibly, it does have its advantages.

All I'd like to see is maybe a drop in weight by 1 so people can carry their pipes (I'm not arsed but I figure other people will be), give the demoman discount since this is an Explosive weapon, and attach its ammunition increase to grenades instead of shotgun ammo (meaning 26 rockets overall for demo and support). Yes 26 might promote wreckless spam, but thinking in terms of properly using it, having to refill ammo less frequently may save up a decent sum every couple of rounds.

J* attourney of L.A.W.

EDIT: Interesting how someone felt strongly enough against my post enough to put a dislike on it... a little unfair since I backed up my opinion with valid points. Pointless I know, but those little buttons mean something to me

 

[Evilsod]

I still maintain the L.A.W. is more useful than the M79 or M32. At least it is for me. I can't use the M32 for beans, even as experienced as I am I spam like wildfire and totally blind the team.

M79 isn't bad, I like to stack grenades and blast em with the M79 but it gets annoying when this is a tactic you use on groups of bloody gorefasts cause the M79 isn't powerful enough to do it on its own.

The L.A.W. on the other hand oblierates all low and a good number of mid specimens in 1 shot over a pretty large area. If it doesn't kill them, most get stunned instead (including Scrakes), leaving a nice easy target for the rest of the team. Fleshpounds although aren't a great target for the L.A.W., if the sharpoe misses the Decap the LAW can still do a decent enough slap of damage, and take out any little speicmens trying to skulk in behind and pick off the players the FP leaves behind. Also with simply how cool it is, I find myself actually having fun with the L.A.W. and not doing too shabby either on the old kill count.

Admittedly other weapons are far more versatile, but as with all muck about weapons, as long as your team focuses on good team work and you use your weapon sensibly, it does have its advantages.

J* attourney of L.A.W.

Using that logic, blasting a mob of Gorefasts with the M79, using 1 of 24 grenades (or an M32 using 1 of 36 grenades) will stun them all and leave them easy pickings for your team too. The LAW simply can't carry enough ammo and doesn't pack enough of a punch to replace the M79, M32 and Pipes combined. Sure its effective against small things but there isn't enough ammo to use it often.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Hehehe, you nipped in before I had time to re-read and alter my post

Using that logic, blasting a mob of Gorefasts with the M79, using 1 of 24 grenades (or an M32 using 1 of 36 grenades) will stun them all and leave them easy pickings for your team too. The LAW simply can't carry enough ammo and doesn't pack enough of a punch to replace the M79, M32 and Pipes combined. Sure its effective against small things but there isn't enough ammo to use it often.

True but the blast radius is alot smaller, and that stun doesn't work against Scrakes. Plus this method effectively costs

 

[Zeron]

Personally i think the LAW(AKA LAWL) is playing cards with the chainsaw for being one of the worst weapons in the game. Both of them need considerable tweaking before they find better than just niche uses.

 

[SIL]

I think your success was more due to it being a Normal difficulty.


We had a guy the other day who was an outstanding medic but people were dying anyway. He then did what he called "preventative medicine" and bought a LAW.

OMG we were cracking up. There was just spit and *** everywhere. It's all late wave like 9 or something and every time we hit Zed-Time it seems a flying dildo goes by from that thing and KABOOM. I forgot what the blast radius is like.

Effective weapon? meh...sure but it would still be a last choice.
Fun weapon? Absolutely. If nothing else for the comic gold of having someone step in front of the shooter.

What about 6x LAW shooters on a FF server. hehe.

HAHA, thanks for reminding me Smilin, that medic was me. I don't normally pick Medic, and when I do I usually go MP7M. That night, however, we had a few guys I know that were playing with us and I decided to be hilarious seeing that everyone was running around like a chicken with their head cut off...so I tried preventative medicine. The "Old School" medic when there wasn't insane crossbow or the MP7M wasn't added. What to do with all those slots? LAW.

I was dying laughing every time I fired that thing in ZED time over everyone's head, especially in that control room. Bush was laughing so hard that it sounded like he was in tears. Great times, thanks for reminding me

 

[SIL]

Also, now that I've read the entirety of the thread and not just my comic gold moment, I do want to comment on the LAW's power.

The LAW is a good solid weapon, the problem is that it is too big. Only a support can carry the weapon at higher rank and have an acceptable self-defense weapon, and maybe that's where the balance should land. Demo shouldn't be using the weapon, it is a support weapon. It was designed as a support weapon, hence the size.

Maybe in order to balance the weight vs reward against the new weapons, perhaps support could get a discount on the weight requirement, allowing him to sport more robust weapons. Personally, I don't like this solution. I'd rather have the LAW damage increased on larger specimen. It does OK on smaller stuff, even as a medic, but the impact of lining it up, checking to make sure you won't obliterate yourself due to a teammate or stalker, then finally firing it... wow, that takes a while compared to an M79 or M32. Plus, the LAW simply CANNOT fire without using the sight. The others can.

My solution would be to increase the damage of the LAW significantly and leave everything else alone about it. Support should be carrying it, or a medic if they don't mind losing the MP7M and ridiculous 1-shotting weapons (hello balance patch?). A rank 6 support can easily sport a shotgun to handle the little guys, and has his 9mm for backup should that go dry... and he has more grenades. Plus, that LAW has 15-ish shots in it. FIRE AWAY! Sure it's expensive, but with an upgraded blast...that should be negligible in a situation that warrents its use. I would really like to see this weapon used more, and against its intended targets (Anything Bloat and Above).

I have seen long time players that don't even know what the LAW is because they never tried it, or someone told them that it wasn't worthwhile. My brother who has played for almost a year asked me what it was when I picked it up from the trader. He was serious. To me, this means that it is a weapon that you don't find on the ground, and you don't buy. So, why's it there? I use it sometimes, I enjoy using it. I wish others would see it as a viable choice, maybe a damage increase would see to just that.

 

[HaTeMe]

Its because you had 3 players and the game was on normal difficulty. Having less players makes it alot easier. And if demo actually gets a damage boost on the law, then that too.

Normal is just laughable anyway

No gun in KF is "useless", some are just better than others. If you know how to use them, that is.

So... "LAW is good if you know how to use it"?

No weapon should have such disadvantages without providing a real advantage. I mean, look at that weapon:

+ Can take out big groups of trash specimens like clots/stalkers/crawlers
+ Can occasionally stun scrakes with a direct hit
- Weights a ton, cant get backup weapons unless using Support perk.
- Only 12 rockets.
- Cannot be fired without using the sights.
- Large blast radius makes it impossible to be used up close.
- Expensive.
- Rather expensive refill.
- Long reload time.
- Sirens can destroy the rockets in mid-air.
- Useless against bigger targets (Fleshpounds have 50% resistance to LAW rockets, and Scrakes have explosive resistance. If used against the Patty youll have a chance to fire single rocket before its already too close and since you cant fire when its in your face... youll die)
- Cant even take out a husk with direct hit on 6 man suicidal (as far as I remember).
- Buggy, shooting rockets over certain obstacles causes you to lose health even tho the rocket itself explodes miles away.

Maybe there was some other cool disadvantages that I forgot to mention.

But anyway, if I had to choose beetween the LAW and a 9mm, Id pick 9mm no questions asked. Or even a knife. So, if a weapon you purchase at the trader is basically worse than your basic equipment, Id consider it useless.

The machete is another "useless" weapon, but the only thing thats really keeping it back is the ridiculous weight of 3 blocks, which is exactly the same as katana has.. Theres absolutely no reason to pick the machete instead of the katana, not even the prize since katana costs only 299 for a level 6 berserker. If they actually decreased machetes weight to 1 block in the upcoming balance update, I might actually consider buying it instead of a pipebomb to fill that last block. Or better yet, increase pipebomb weight to 2 blocks while at it, so machete would be your only option >:]. But the point is, machetes weight is rendering it as a useless weapon.

Altho I suppose it all depends on how do you define "useless".