Duplicated thread on the wrong forum? 
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47809[/URL]
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47809[/URL]
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The Brute :: Final Release
- Thread starter Hemi
- Start date
Yes if you join a server with the Brute mutator running it will download and install all the required files for your client.
My server has been running with the brute mutator with no problems. Try it out @ 71.61.71.22
My server has been running with the brute mutator with no problems. Try it out @ 71.61.71.22
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Hi
I have a very big problem
I add Brute and Shiver to my server .
And when i enter it i download all files form fastdl, but no one with fresh killingfloor don't see this monsters.
But old players who play with brute see him.
Long time ago i add brute and everything was fine.
I add with start command
Can anybody help me?
It's very important to me becouse i lost players.
I have a very big problem
I add Brute and Shiver to my server .
And when i enter it i download all files form fastdl, but no one with fresh killingfloor don't see this monsters.
But old players who play with brute see him.
Long time ago i add brute and everything was fine.
I add with start command
Can anybody help me?
It's very important to me becouse i lost players.
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We just put the Brute on my clan's private server a few days ago, and it's a lot of fun. The Brute has become one of the few specimens that people have to call out when we see one (the others being Scrakes and Fleshpounds) because they really do mess up our formations (supposing we have one, which is really not often.) We don't call it a "Brute" though. Every time we see one, we yell "MONKEY!" or "GORILLA!" It's a lot of fun. I've been playing a lot of sharpshooter lately, and I always just shoot them in the knees/crotch. It seems to work out okay most of the time.
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First I want to say that Brute is most qualitative custom specimen in the game. So - Great job, guys!
But in the same time I must admit that Brute makes game balance much worse.
1. Brute appears from wave 2, which is totally unbalanced. IMO it should be introduced only in wave 4 (between Sirens and Scrakes).
2. Supports, which imo is slightly OP even without Brute, are the most effective perk against it: 2 HSg blasts from a close distance = Brute dead - easiest way to kill him.
3. You've meant sharpies are weak against Brute. You are wrong - perked xbow is the second best Brute killer after HSg. Here's the technique: another player (usually Support) sits down just in front of SS and attracts Brute. Dumb beast runs to that player, opens his arms to make a hit, and receives sweet dose of murder from Sharpie's xbow. This requires some training to master it, but after that it's just piece of cake.
4. Brute can't be stunned, so Demo's LAW, Zerker's Axe or Sharpie's LAR is weak against it.
5. I suppose that explosives, which hit blocked arm, deals only 10% of damage too, neglecting fact, that explosives damages body, not the head.
6. Other perks are useless or significantly weaker against Brute. That's why almost every game with Brute is played with SS+Support load-out.
So I'm suggesting an ability to stun him the same way as Scrake can be stunned. Due to blocked head it will be still harder to stun a Brute then a Scrake, but at least other perks will have chances to deal with him. Brute could keep his head blocking during the stun animation.
But in the same time I must admit that Brute makes game balance much worse.
1. Brute appears from wave 2, which is totally unbalanced. IMO it should be introduced only in wave 4 (between Sirens and Scrakes).
2. Supports, which imo is slightly OP even without Brute, are the most effective perk against it: 2 HSg blasts from a close distance = Brute dead - easiest way to kill him.
3. You've meant sharpies are weak against Brute. You are wrong - perked xbow is the second best Brute killer after HSg. Here's the technique: another player (usually Support) sits down just in front of SS and attracts Brute. Dumb beast runs to that player, opens his arms to make a hit, and receives sweet dose of murder from Sharpie's xbow. This requires some training to master it, but after that it's just piece of cake.
4. Brute can't be stunned, so Demo's LAW, Zerker's Axe or Sharpie's LAR is weak against it.
5. I suppose that explosives, which hit blocked arm, deals only 10% of damage too, neglecting fact, that explosives damages body, not the head.
6. Other perks are useless or significantly weaker against Brute. That's why almost every game with Brute is played with SS+Support load-out.
So I'm suggesting an ability to stun him the same way as Scrake can be stunned. Due to blocked head it will be still harder to stun a Brute then a Scrake, but at least other perks will have chances to deal with him. Brute could keep his head blocking during the stun animation.
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In response to your points in order.
1. Wave 2 if you've not spawned with weapons already you have easily gotten at least your basic weapon at this point. If you had said wave 1 I would have to have agreed.
2. I've seen this but then that's the same way most deal with the Scrake, says more about the HS then it does the Brute I reckon.
3. That's team work. It's an amazing thing that has to be promoted. No different then a zerk getting it's attention and making it turn it's back on the sharpie. As a rule a sharpie or two with there head in the game can destroy any dangerous target, siren, husk, scrake and FP, long before they come into range. Brute makes it harder.
4. Brute is a boxer of sorts. Not easy to stun a boxer. Prevents things like flinchlocking like you get on the scrake.
5. I suppose that depends on how he's attacked. M79 or LAW round to his face while guard is up, most explosive damage would be deflected by the armour. Pipe or 'nades on floor would hit his body or behind it would hit his head. The Brute's damage reduction isn't global when his guard is up. It's only a blocking volume in front of him where his arms are.
6. Like everything it's tactics and teamwork. For example. As a mano if I have the time I can shoot him in the abdomen as he comes towards me, aiming up to his head as he lowers his guard. With teir2 and above he's easy enough to deal with. IIRC he has a small weakness to the FB, which also negates his blocking. The reason you see mostly support and sharpie as they are two very powerful perks, the support being easily op.
Combine this with the Shiver and you have a combo that really adds some extra chaos and fun to the game.
1. Wave 2 if you've not spawned with weapons already you have easily gotten at least your basic weapon at this point. If you had said wave 1 I would have to have agreed.
2. I've seen this but then that's the same way most deal with the Scrake, says more about the HS then it does the Brute I reckon.
3. That's team work. It's an amazing thing that has to be promoted. No different then a zerk getting it's attention and making it turn it's back on the sharpie. As a rule a sharpie or two with there head in the game can destroy any dangerous target, siren, husk, scrake and FP, long before they come into range. Brute makes it harder.
4. Brute is a boxer of sorts. Not easy to stun a boxer. Prevents things like flinchlocking like you get on the scrake.
5. I suppose that depends on how he's attacked. M79 or LAW round to his face while guard is up, most explosive damage would be deflected by the armour. Pipe or 'nades on floor would hit his body or behind it would hit his head. The Brute's damage reduction isn't global when his guard is up. It's only a blocking volume in front of him where his arms are.
6. Like everything it's tactics and teamwork. For example. As a mano if I have the time I can shoot him in the abdomen as he comes towards me, aiming up to his head as he lowers his guard. With teir2 and above he's easy enough to deal with. IIRC he has a small weakness to the FB, which also negates his blocking. The reason you see mostly support and sharpie as they are two very powerful perks, the support being easily op.
Combine this with the Shiver and you have a combo that really adds some extra chaos and fun to the game.
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@poosh: Thanks for the feedback, you raise some interesting points.
I do agree that it's a pretty powerful enemy for such an early wave, though that was the idea - to give an occasional powerhouse that needs team work to be taken down early on.
We could raise his overall health somewhat, though this might make him too strong against other weapons. Perhaps we could add some kind of resistance to projectiles (shotgun pellets, crossbow bolts, etc.) for this purpose. To be fair the HSg is meant to be very powerful at close range, and I remember noticing the relative ease of taking the Brute out by doing a couple of blasts at the legs/chest.
Actually, this is intended. It's not awfully hard to pull off, but it does require team work, which was the whole idea behind the Brute. It's one of the few enemies that requires any real coordination between the players.
It's been previously considered and rejected, since being able to stun it would mean you can get an easy headshot without any real team work (you can just shoot the Brute in the back of the head).
I do agree that it's a pretty powerful enemy for such an early wave, though that was the idea - to give an occasional powerhouse that needs team work to be taken down early on.
We could raise his overall health somewhat, though this might make him too strong against other weapons. Perhaps we could add some kind of resistance to projectiles (shotgun pellets, crossbow bolts, etc.) for this purpose. To be fair the HSg is meant to be very powerful at close range, and I remember noticing the relative ease of taking the Brute out by doing a couple of blasts at the legs/chest.
Actually, this is intended. It's not awfully hard to pull off, but it does require team work, which was the whole idea behind the Brute. It's one of the few enemies that requires any real coordination between the players.
It's been previously considered and rejected, since being able to stun it would mean you can get an easy headshot without any real team work (you can just shoot the Brute in the back of the head).
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Don't get me wrong: I don't want to make Brute easier - I want to make it more balanced though the perks. I love hunting Brutes with crossbow, because it requires 3 skills: good timing, precision and teamwork. Very challenging comparing to hunting Scrakes, which requires only 1 skill: good timing between shots or precision.
But if Sharpie misses the headshot, the only perk which can help is Support. Actually Support doesn't need Sharpie at all: sit down and make 1 HSg blast into Brute's balls and then another in the opened head. If there are 2 supports, then there is no need to wait for Brute opening his head - just kill him by smacking his balls with HSg at close distance.
Other perk are just useless against Brute. Firebug can slow him down a little bit, but I haven't notice any advantage in this. Burning Brute is damn fast anyway. Zerker or Medic could try to turn Brute, so Sharpie could access unblocked part of a head - but it kind of dumb. Learning timing and shooting the line is much easier then aiming in moving target. Demo can place pipes, but they are expensive and level 6 Demo can hold only 8 of them, but there are tons of Brutes in the wave.
So in the end we have 3-4 supports in the 6p team, 1-2 sharpies and maybe 1 exclusive place for another perk.
But if Sharpie misses the headshot, the only perk which can help is Support. Actually Support doesn't need Sharpie at all: sit down and make 1 HSg blast into Brute's balls and then another in the opened head. If there are 2 supports, then there is no need to wait for Brute opening his head - just kill him by smacking his balls with HSg at close distance.
Other perk are just useless against Brute. Firebug can slow him down a little bit, but I haven't notice any advantage in this. Burning Brute is damn fast anyway. Zerker or Medic could try to turn Brute, so Sharpie could access unblocked part of a head - but it kind of dumb. Learning timing and shooting the line is much easier then aiming in moving target. Demo can place pipes, but they are expensive and level 6 Demo can hold only 8 of them, but there are tons of Brutes in the wave.
So in the end we have 3-4 supports in the 6p team, 1-2 sharpies and maybe 1 exclusive place for another perk.
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If you want the truth, maybe moving it up to wave 3 will make the Brute a little better as it all depends on what difficulty you play on I guess but I do agree with Gartley and Benjamin with the other points made.
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@Sinpas, The Brute is Whitelisted. That's about as much official approval as you can get =P. And IMHO I think he's as spot on as the other ZEDs.
@poosh, but we see that in normal games without the brute already. 6man support teams are an almost certain win. I've not played 6man Sui+ with the brute yet. (Must be a nightmare) Maybe it's your players wanting an easier game but most of the time I'm in a mixed team and we handle it well enough. Different people different experiences I suppose.
@poosh, but we see that in normal games without the brute already. 6man support teams are an almost certain win. I've not played 6man Sui+ with the brute yet. (Must be a nightmare) Maybe it's your players wanting an easier game but most of the time I'm in a mixed team and we handle it well enough. Different people different experiences I suppose.
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We are playing Brute only on HoE, so I don't know how he acts on lower difficulties. Before we realized how to handle Brute with xbow, we have played as 5sup + 1ss. Now we are playing mostly 2ss + 3 sup + 1 demo/ss/sup(depending from map). Killing Brute with xbow is harder than just shooting him with HSg, but way more exciting.
If you know some tricks how to kill Brute on HoE without taking damage as other perks, please let me know. But until that I'm considering Commando, Firebug and Zerker completely useless in HoE+Brute games.
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If i may say my thoughts on it:
While i really like the looks and idea etc about it, im more with Poosh on this one. How i look at it is that the perks contra specimen balance is something like this:
Sharpshooter and Demolitions - More for killing the heavy targets, while helping with trash.
Commando and Firebug - Pretty much purely for trashkilling, and LOTS of it!
Berserker and Support - Good for helping with the trashkilling, but can definitely assist with the heavies as well.
Medic - Pretty much only a supportive role.
Now why mention this? Because the Brute sort of breaks this balance! The Brute is a medium/heavy target, but SUPPORT is the best target to take it down, while (unless great timing with Xbow as Poosh mentions) Sharpshooter and Demo pretty much suck against it who should be at least somewhat DECENT against it.
I'd suggest to HEAVILY tone down the damage reduction from the blocking arm. Rather than a 90% damage reduction, something more like 50-60% is enough, while increasing the health a little bit instead. That since, on top of the damage reduction, the head is also virtually "unaccessable" from the front while blocking, so changing it to that would make it far less crippling to all the other perks. It will still be better to kill in a "team cooperative" way ofc, but promotes that without completely hampering the other perks too much.
I'd also suggest to make the slow effect from burning it much more powerful perhaps? Or maybe even: It panics VERY fast? Like after 2 or 3 seconds?
Just my opinion about it
Just a question: How much health does it actually have?
While i really like the looks and idea etc about it, im more with Poosh on this one. How i look at it is that the perks contra specimen balance is something like this:
Sharpshooter and Demolitions - More for killing the heavy targets, while helping with trash.
Commando and Firebug - Pretty much purely for trashkilling, and LOTS of it!
Berserker and Support - Good for helping with the trashkilling, but can definitely assist with the heavies as well.
Medic - Pretty much only a supportive role.
Now why mention this? Because the Brute sort of breaks this balance! The Brute is a medium/heavy target, but SUPPORT is the best target to take it down, while (unless great timing with Xbow as Poosh mentions) Sharpshooter and Demo pretty much suck against it who should be at least somewhat DECENT against it.
I'd suggest to HEAVILY tone down the damage reduction from the blocking arm. Rather than a 90% damage reduction, something more like 50-60% is enough, while increasing the health a little bit instead. That since, on top of the damage reduction, the head is also virtually "unaccessable" from the front while blocking, so changing it to that would make it far less crippling to all the other perks. It will still be better to kill in a "team cooperative" way ofc, but promotes that without completely hampering the other perks too much.
I'd also suggest to make the slow effect from burning it much more powerful perhaps? Or maybe even: It panics VERY fast? Like after 2 or 3 seconds?
Just my opinion about it
Just a question: How much health does it actually have?
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Base:
900 Health
450 Head health
And for your reading pleasure, 90% damage soak, only 30% to flame. And slows down by 15% while on fire. So FB does have some effect against him, just lacks the spike damage.
You have a valid point Aze about the classes roles, but what's to say something can't come along and stir things up a little. Having every class pigeon holed is a little boring I think.
900 Health
450 Head health
And for your reading pleasure, 90% damage soak, only 30% to flame. And slows down by 15% while on fire. So FB does have some effect against him, just lacks the spike damage.
You have a valid point Aze about the classes roles, but what's to say something can't come along and stir things up a little. Having every class pigeon holed is a little boring I think.
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Aight, thanks for the info ^^
And i don't mind stirring things up a little. I just think the Brute does so too... brutally
But wow, he almost has similar health to a Scrake (its base is 1000 health, 600 head health). How much does it scale though? If it scales similarly, the Brute is actually by far a more dangerous specimen than Scrakes, considering the possibility of 90% damage soak, nearly impossible to headshot from any distance other than close range, easy to rage, unstunnability, how plentiful they are etc
I'm glad this specimen is not added officially to the game (but whitelisted is nice ofc ^^), as it is way too powerful imo.
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Brute Outdated?
Brute Outdated?
I have put this mutator in my server again and it downloads and everything and seems to work but when I am playing it never spawns? what is going on? and just in case I was supposed to do something extra, am I supposed to add anything to the Killingfloor.ini file? like serveractors or something?
Brute Outdated?
I have put this mutator in my server again and it downloads and everything and seems to work but when I am playing it never spawns? what is going on? and just in case I was supposed to do something extra, am I supposed to add anything to the Killingfloor.ini file? like serveractors or something?
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