Realism/relaxed Realism (POLL!!)

[KingLol]

So it's been confirmed that RO2 will have a "Realism" mode aimed at ROPlayers and a "Relaxed Realism" mode aimed at more casual players from other games. I've had a quick look around and there doesn't seem to be any solid definition on the differences between the Realism and Relaxed Realism gameplay modes. As far as I (and most people seem to) know, Relaxed Realism has 'some additional HUD elements'. Can anyone elaborate on this a bit more?

Is it really worthwhile splitting the playerbase of the game in half to have these two modes? Personally I don't think that it's necessary to have an extra mode when there's such a small apparent difference between them. The extra HUD information from the RR mode could be easily be set as a serverside filterable option instead, or maybe put on servers for lower ranked players. With the single player mode - and in particular, the tutorial - having had much more attention this time around then surely that softens the learning curve enough to make the relaxed realism mode redundant.

 

[kllr101]

The whole "splitting the playerbase" arguement is totally false.

Forcing the playerbase to all play 1 type is worse than having a few less full games of 1 type. The idea of "splitting the playerbase" is used too often, and ends up with so little effect.

When was the last time you logged onto say, CoD (with it's many many many modes) and said "Where the hell are the <XX> servers. This place is dead"

If a casual gamer comes along and wants to play with the HUD up on a game of Firefight. Why should he be forced to play with whatever settings the server admin chooses or forced to play Realism mode if he doesn't want it. ?

 

[KingLol]

My point was that there appears to be almost no difference between the two modes and therefore it doesn't warrant inclusion as its own separate mode. It's not like there's a difference in the mechanics of the gameplay or the objectives of the game as with the different gametypes.

Why should he be forced to play with whatever settings the server admin chooses or forced to play Realism mode if he doesn't want it. ?

You do realise that you CHOOSE the server that you play on right? You aren't forced to do anything and if you don't like the server settings then go somewhere else, that's the way it works at the moment.

If a casual gamer comes along and wants to play with the HUD up on a game of Firefight. Why should he be forced to play with whatever settings the server admin chooses or forced to play Realism mode if he doesn't want it. ?

If the option of the increased HUD isn't included, then people won't miss it, otherwise you may as well play RO:Ost on Zhitomir and then complain that you can't find the button to cast your magic spells.

 

[kllr101]

The point I was making is that "Relaxed Realism" wont split the community.

And that if you removed it, all that would happen is to force people who wanted to play that mode to play "Realism" or some custom one set by the server which they may not want to play under.

 

[Grobut]

When was the last time you logged onto say, CoD (with it's many many many modes) and said "Where the hell are the <XX> servers. This place is dead"

That's probably the worst example you could have possibly used, the CoD games have such a large fanbase, it would allmost be impossible for any gametype to be short on players.

The same is not true of games that have a significantly smaller player base, even in UT2004 in it's glory days, several of the modes where hard to find players for, like Assault or Bombing Run, and that was a popular game in it's day.

You can't compare 99% of games to the likes of CoD, CS, Halo or WoW, thease are the exception that somehow managed to launch themselves into the pop culture and is played by millions, the vast majority of games will never achive that.

So it's been confirmed that RO2 will have a "Realism" mode aimed at ROPlayers and a "Relaxed Realism" mode aimed at more casual players from other games. I've had a quick look around and there doesn't seem to be any solid definition on the differences between the Realism and Relaxed Realism gameplay modes. As far as I (and most people seem to) know, Relaxed Realism has 'some additional HUD elements'. Can anyone elaborate on this a bit more?

Is it really worthwhile splitting the playerbase of the game in half to have these two modes? Personally I don't think that it's necessary to have an extra mode when there's such a small apparent difference between them. The extra HUD information from the RR mode could be easily be set as a serverside filterable option instead, or maybe put on servers for lower ranked players. With the single player mode - and in particular, the tutorial - having had much more attention this time around then surely that softens the learning curve enough to make the relaxed realism mode redundant.

You definately have a point, i'm not really sure any of thease features are so starkly different they warrent two sepperate modes of play.

Most of thease things seem to come down to personal prefrence, IE, they could probably coexist just fine in the same mode, and then just let players select what they want to see on their HUD in a HUD setup menu.


There might be a few of them that could potentially give players who have it enabled some small advantage over thouse who do not, but then i do have to wonder if they are worth including, at the cost of splitting the game in to two modes of play, or if it woulden't be more practical to just leave it user defined and trim away the features that might be "unfair".

 

[kllr101]

That's probably the worst example you could have possibly used, the CoD games have such a large fanbase, it would allmost be impossible for any gametype to be short on players.

The same is not true of games that have a significantly smaller player base, even in UT2004 in it's glory days, several of the modes where hard to find players for, like Assault or Bombing Run, and that was a popular game in it's day.

You can't compare 99% of games to the likes of CoD, CS, Halo or WoW, thease are the exception that somehow managed to launch themselves into the pop culture and is played by millions, the vast majority of games will never achive that.

I know that, But it's not like ROHOS is gonna have a small fanbase.

I've just never seen 2 gamemodes instead of 1 end up splitting a whole playerbase in a large, well known retail game. It's just not going to happen.

 

[pæmøer]

Perhaps the point of it is to have a preset of options, so that you know a relaxed realism server will always have feature x, y and z, instead of having to check the servers for one that has those enabled.

Then again, things like that could be fixed by having a server browser with good filters or just having the presets under the same game mode, not split up....that's essentially what it is anyway, if it's "just" HUD-elements.

 

[Nicholas]

TWI is like a maker of $200,000 cars, but then wants to make a model that is $10,000 less as a "budget" model, and then forces everyone to have a DVD player in the dashboard.

 

[jalex3]

im so stupid... I was looking at the first letter in kllr101's name and thought that Kinglol was talking to himself.

I see where you are coming, but its not going to make a big split in the community. Even if it did it would just keep the less realistic players away from us.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

thanks for making this post because i was about to make the same thing......here's my most recent post from the "suggest a name" thread:

As a pure aside (my opinion - others in the office may disagree), but I'm kinda likeing the idea of "Classic RO" or "Classic RO Realism" for the realism mode......But what would be the "lesser" variant? I'm certainly not going to call it "More like CoD non-realism"

simple.....there shouldn't be a significantly "lesser than Classic" variant game mode.

i appreciate that you liked my suggestion for Classic, but it seems as though we both might have different ideas of what "Classic" is......i would expect this to be as close to the original RO mode as possible, with maybe a few of the newer helpful "additions" added. i would imagine "Realism" to be more realistic than the traditional, Classic RO game mode. for years people said that the default RO game mode wasn't realistic enough due to things like death messages, stance indicator, compass, map, HUD items etc... so for this "Realism" mode, i was under the impression that it'd be more realistic than RO's original. but there's really no place for anything less "realistic" than RO's classic game mode....that can be what "Custom" is for

it would be nice to know exactly what's planned on for the HUDs of what TW is currently viewing as the mode most geared toward "ROPlayers" and the "other" players.......imo the "other" players should be the players who favor MORE realism than RO originally had......there is no reason for a stock game mode to have significantly LESS realism than RO's Classic mode.

just my thoughts...

 

[Zetsumei]

I like the mode to stay as who knows what changes might come in the future. IF the generic realism community doesn't like a certain feature at all they could perhaps get it removed from one game mode while keeping it in the other. So far we don't know how much of a difference TWI allows between the game modes.

The key is when creating separate groups that they describe a big chunk of the game. To stay viable. And in a sense a game mode is the same as just a filterable server option, just got a different ring to it.

In BC2 you can see a server browser with both normal and hardcore or any of those separate.

 

[WiFiDi]

in bc2 i only have played in 2 game modes haven't heard of any other. (got the game not to long ago.) but the point being that bc2 have hard core and normal mode i usually play hardcore but that's only because that is what my clan likes to play on. for a consoleish game i usually would play non hardcore but i do find hardcore pretty nice. better than cod by a long shot.

because i think it worked on bc2 i think it will work here. its not split. my clan will go play on non hardcore servers all the time (usually not in mass but a few guys will often go to another server.). i don't think everyone exclusively plays hardcore.

 

[Garbonzo]

Yes We Need It

I don't want cod and bc fanboys who utterly suck

trying to play on realism


it would be just sooooo boring killing the same cod fanboys over and over

 

[aD.Luoson]

The whole "splitting the playerbase" arguement is totally false.

Forcing the playerbase to all play 1 type is worse than having a few less full games of 1 type. The idea of "splitting the playerbase" is used too often, and ends up with so little effect.

I'm sorry but i'm going to have to completely disagree with this, it's obvious you haven't played a game that has been split with the communities before

On warcraft 2 online (was popular in it's day) There was 2 speed settings Even faster and Fastest, and also custom maps which played completely different from the standard

There was constant bickering what setting was better between the groups and a complete basic split on what you played, The 3 communities did not interact with each other at all on forums or in game.. Chat rooms consisted of **** talk between the groups

Now a more modern game

Bad company 2

Hardcore mode and normal mode.. Well since my clan came from Insurgency we related to hardcore mode more then 'normal' and that is what we played and enjoyed.

All clans refused to play hardcore clan matches and called us newbs for even suggesting the mode. We all quit the game because the hardcore community was completely dead because of the split communities it was choose one or the other

Now it all depends on how popular the game is and how much the game modes vary of course but this is properly the biggest concern imo of this game actually failing.

It can bring a real negative aspect between the play modes and communities and i hope it's something twi considers and looks into seriously.

 

[blkmgc]

Hopefully its a server side setting that sets a players front end when they log in. Meaning no ez moders mixed with realism moders. That would just be stupid.

 

[kllr101]

I'm sorry but i'm going to have to completely disagree with this, it's obvious you haven't played a game that has been split with the communities before

On warcraft 2 online (was popular in it's day) There was 2 speed settings Even faster and Fastest, and also custom maps which played completely different from the standard

There was constant bickering what setting was better between the groups and a complete basic split on what you played, The 3 communities did not interact with each other at all on forums or in game.. Chat rooms consisted of **** talk between the groups

Now a more modern game

Bad company 2

Hardcore mode and normal mode.. Well since my clan came from Insurgency we related to hardcore mode more then 'normal' and that is what we played and enjoyed.

All clans refused to play hardcore clan matches and called us newbs for even suggesting the mode. We all quit the game because the hardcore community was completely dead because of the split communities it was choose one or the other

Now it all depends on how popular the game is and how much the game modes vary of course but this is properly the biggest concern imo of this game actually failing.

It can bring a real negative aspect between the play modes and communities and i hope it's something twi considers and looks into seriously.

I wouldn't call what happened with BC2 a problem, it was an added option that let players choose. I heard there was localised problems with clans with hardcore mode (due to 1 aspect of hardcore mode, the fact it was eaiser to kill in it) and not the mode itself.

What happened with BC2 was just bad design of modes rather than a split playerbase because of the modes themselves.

Splitting a playerbase is when you're a small mod with few players, and adding an extra few modes. Not taking 1 mode in a large, well known franchise and adding another to accomidate how people want to play (as which is what is happening in ROHOS)

I've seen very few (if any) retail games that have had a true playerbase split, Mostly a split happens with smaller mods.

In HOS' case, a player-base split isn't going to be a problem, as the 2 modes are rather similar and the base that plays them applies to either one, and unless TWI decide to add a "CoD-Replica" gamemode that'll replicate all of CoD's settings, it's not going to split the playerbase.

For instance, I would like to play 'Realism', but yeah, I'll also play alot of Relaxed Realism (/Custom servers) too ..

 

[10-78 BusterKing]

The idea is to provide CHOICE!

You pick the server of your choice. Simple.


Quit trying to control an entire gaming community.


Choice is good. It attracts more people. More people = more sales.

All about common sense.


Now lets move on since all this has already been decided.

 

[Dietrich Graf]

What I can't understand is the need for a "relaxed realism" mode at all when there isn't anything remotely hard about playing Red Orchestra. If you weren't born yesterday, living under a rock for the last 50 years, or just discovered the FPS genre, you can easily jump right into this game and know what to expect. If you played Halo, COD, DOD 1.6 and etc., you know the basics: use WASD to maneuver your avatar to an advantageous spot to release the most lethal volley of 1s and 0s to send your opponent to the afterlife, or at least back to spawn.

What happened with BC2 was just bad design of modes rather than a split playerbase because of the modes themselves.
S

Do you actually believe the stuff you write?

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

What I can't understand is the need for a "relaxed realism" mode at all when there isn't anything remotely hard about playing Red Orchestra. If you weren't born yesterday, living under a rock for the last 50 years, or just discovered the FPS genre, you can easily jump right into this game and know what to expect.

exactly. the default mode should be matched to the Classic RO mode, then a more Realistic mode, and Custom to allow for even more realistic or less realistic than the default Classic.

 

[gyps]

Anything that gives choice has got to be a good thing

It will give the server providers the choice to have which ever they like, and till we get try it out 'who know relaxed may be the better mode in the long run' while most of us are not bothered by the thought of realism mode a more relaxed version may well pull in more players.

Most of the server that exist now will probaly go to realism anyway, but anything that help more people play RO gotta be a thumbs up.

We have to keep an open mind till we get to try it