Sorry guys. It's not about penetratation, quantum physics or realism but...
"A final feature of Breach that impressed me is something I
"A final feature of Breach that impressed me is something I
Plea from rockpapershotgun
- Thread starter gusone
- Start date
As long as its cosmetic like it says there - fuzzy screen, narrowing of the view - that's cool.. but once you start taking control away from the player ala Darkest Hour, you've lost me. I really hope Tripwire doesnt go the DH route (I know, they said they're going to do something like the DH mechanic, and honestly, it lessens my excitement about the new game).
Also, that cover system in that video looked like crap... you shouldnt be able to see outside of your character like that.
Also, that cover system in that video looked like crap... you shouldnt be able to see outside of your character like that.
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Is fine as it is in RO:Ost, maybe a bit too much, sometimes my monitor goes completely black, and I have to hide away, so yes, it works.
I think it would be bull**** if you have to fake immersion to fit real life tactics in, then it would be no different than Brothers in Arms.
Emo-Rant mode on/
On a side note and a completely unrelated topic: my carpal tunnels are getting worse, and I may not be able to play the ****ing game when it comes out... you figure, 5 years of waiting for nothing... seriously, **** my life.
/Emo-Rant mode off
I think it would be bull**** if you have to fake immersion to fit real life tactics in, then it would be no different than Brothers in Arms.
Emo-Rant mode on/
On a side note and a completely unrelated topic: my carpal tunnels are getting worse, and I may not be able to play the ****ing game when it comes out... you figure, 5 years of waiting for nothing... seriously, **** my life.
/Emo-Rant mode off
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Can't speak for the suppression in Breach, but you do have to like the destruction capabilities they show. (Sure, the damage could use some tweaking.) Now how it works in MP or how much of a pia it is to code for each map, remains to be seen.
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Floyd said:
I love the idea of anything and everything in the environment being able to take and persistently maintain damage based on the kinetic force it received. What they've done here looks decent, and yeah, it could use some tweaking. I think we're a few years off from it being fully realized.
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I'll try with not playing anything at all until HOES comes out, to see if it works.
Sry, I'll stop derailing thread now.
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I actually like how DH plays. I wish TWI would go that route. Why? I have read on many forums from simHQ.com to tanksim forums that DH just feels more realistic.
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For what its worth TWI has already said they will increase the effects of suppression in the next title. To something heavier than ost although not as extreme as DH.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=611444&postcount=41
I do personally think that more suppressive effects are needed than in RO, however I hope that any suppression system will only make it more difficult to return accurate fire at range, and not impossible. How much suppression is needed would depend on play testing.
I truly hope that sand and dirt can get in your eye, when enemies are hitting in front of your cover. Someone hitting a piece of concrete near you probably gives some nasty chips of concrete flying around. That stuff possibly getting into your eyes would cause most people to either close their eyes to protect them or move away.
I think that if dirt getting in your eye is correctly modelled that any additional suppression system doesn't have to be that heavy to get suppression right. Stuff getting into your eyes is probably crucial for suppressive fire, more so than penetration.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=611444&postcount=41
I do personally think that more suppressive effects are needed than in RO, however I hope that any suppression system will only make it more difficult to return accurate fire at range, and not impossible. How much suppression is needed would depend on play testing.
I truly hope that sand and dirt can get in your eye, when enemies are hitting in front of your cover. Someone hitting a piece of concrete near you probably gives some nasty chips of concrete flying around. That stuff possibly getting into your eyes would cause most people to either close their eyes to protect them or move away.
I think that if dirt getting in your eye is correctly modelled that any additional suppression system doesn't have to be that heavy to get suppression right. Stuff getting into your eyes is probably crucial for suppressive fire, more so than penetration.
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Zets said:
Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my first post. When I read Ramm saying they were doing something along the lines of DH's 'flinch' mechanic it was like a punch in the stomach. I really hope whatever they decide to do doesnt take control away from the player like DH does.
Zets said:
This sounds more realistic and at the same time like it wouldnt take control away from the player; sounds reasonable.
Hans Ludwig said:
Yeah, well, you're entitled to your own opinion, but I've gotta ask.. since we are talking about the suppression effects, is it the 'flinching' mechanic that you and those on the sites you mentioned are talking about when you say that DH feels more realistic than RO? ..and if so, my next question would be.. have you been in many firefights yourself or at least watched some footage of real firefights and can say that's how soldiers really react when fired at?
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I like the flinch as an mger becuse then a riflemen can't pop up and down to take quick well aim shots at me. I dislike it because as a rilemen under fire i feel the control is being taken out of my hands. Hopefully the new cover system removes the poping up and down and maybe the model will act more like how a person would then a CS player on crack.
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as long as those soldiers were all Michael J. Fox......
edit: to clarify, this is not attempting to make fun of the actor or his disease, but meerly to make an example of what DH's suppression effects are like.
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Agreed on most points here. I actually thought RO's subtle suppression system with slight vision blur worked very well without getting in the way of the game.
Games like Project Reality and DH go way too far, by practically blinding you or even worse, reducing your accuracy (by making your gun bounce around everywhere) when you are being shot at. These come off as just plain annoying and take away too much control from the player.
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Yeah, I have. It was December of 99' or 00' when I was stationed in Germany with the 1ID when we went to Kosovo. And we had KLA or Serbs (dont' remember which one because the political environment is to complex to even understand now) that engaged my convoy. I remember not being that scared because my unit was the first to have the first version of the Up-Armored HMMWV, and I was 19 and thought I was invincible. I do remember thinking to myself damn, it does sound like Saving Private Ryan with how the rounds sound when they strike metal and the wizzing of the rounds as they go over you.
So, yeah, I'm a fan of suppression. I like how Arma2: OA does it.
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Personally I really, really like the effect that DH's system has on gameplay. Sure it takes a little bit of control away from the player but it forces them to actually work with their team and increases the skill required. It doesnt make it impossible to kill someone shooting at you it just makes you work a little harder to aim, which is about as close to steadying your nerves IRL as you will get in game.
It is already far easier to fire accurately in ROO than it is IRL and the DH suppression effects reward teamwork without completely preventing a player from returning fire. Its not like when a bullet whizzes past you your screen jumps up 5 degrees, I dare say that if you are shooting at a target that is between 50 and 100m away the suppression effect has zero impact on your aim.
It is already far easier to fire accurately in ROO than it is IRL and the DH suppression effects reward teamwork without completely preventing a player from returning fire. Its not like when a bullet whizzes past you your screen jumps up 5 degrees, I dare say that if you are shooting at a target that is between 50 and 100m away the suppression effect has zero impact on your aim.
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Yup I like the effect that it has on gameplay, but I think that rather than sudden jerks the effect could perhaps be more represented like sway.
And if additional things as debris getting in ones eyes get modelled then with play testing it could be found that the effect is only needed in a lessened effect.
The suppression in DH was an eye opener for me, but I don't think its at the end of the tunnel yet.
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Agreed. The less tunnel vision the better. The real answer is to playtest the hell out of a bunch of options and find a good balance between gameplay and control.
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so you were in a humvee...out of curiousity how'd that affect your firing out the windows with your bolt action rifle?
while your story is nice, it doesn't give any insight into what REZ was actually discussing...
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