RO2 MG42 needs a nerf

[Raven1986]

Ah yes I remember these Germans, they took an entire magazine to the torso or three headshots. But a charged melee killed them instantly.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLbyQMMkJGG_7WFhteuza9RDlJMOefHdvp&v=_VqREr1JaTM

Advance to 23:00

 

[Zakarro]

Dude, Germans were trained to hipfire. Backoff. Stop crying. The guns were designed to perform that way, in certain situations.

Does that mean it's ideal and 100% effective 100% of the time? No, obviously not, but that doesn't strengthen your point at all. They WERE meant to hip fire. The guns were designed with it in mind, as a tactic. Obviously, there are more efficient ways to use an MG, that doesn't mean it wasn't 'meant' to do it, or that it was improbable that it was useful.

The TRAINING was there. The ACTUAL USE was there, IRL. So what's your point again?

Your examples of modern CO's and some dude making a video hold no weight, to me. I'm not even sure how your second example is even relevant at all.

Proof please? In any case you said it yourself IN CASE. Doesnt change the fact that 1200 RPM produces a recoil that not even rambo himself could control.
My examples? Its not example its true, and its not just modern COs, even in soviet union or even wermarcht they probably did same thing. Ever hear of discipline? As for the videos I didnt post them, others did and they are what hold no weight.

For Zak:

Coming soon: Nazi Gas Grenades... for Axis use only.

Ohh a screenshot of a 8 year old GAME. It must be true!!!

 

[Zakarro]

According to a few lost references, German MG42ers were trained to hip and shoulder fire, in the event it was required. Like they had "cannot prone here" and "cannot deploy here" popping up all the time when terrain or any rest wasn't available, like when walking through deep snow...

Uhh I think they would be better off laying the MG in the snow then shooting it from hip.....

I rarely agree with anything Zakarro says, but this time is an exception. That youtube is so ludicrous and without any credibility or combat usefulness its hardly worth commenting on (yet it gets posted countless times as definitive proof 'cause its on teh internets). I could produce a video of me hip- shooting any number of my weapons and say they were accurate out to 1000 meters. Especially if I never show you the results of what I'm firing at. I guess we just have to take the youtuber's word for it...


And wtf is that MG'er doing within 70yards (65m) of the enemy (not to mention standing in the broad-*** open waiting to take a bullet from someone on his flank). And if he turns while firing the momentum would either a) throw him off balance and make him fall down or b) swing too far an possibly take out his own troops. Were he to stop (and indeed every time he stops firing) he'd have to "re-aquire" his point of impact. But... Oh, wait....yeah, I keep forgetting, hip firing any weapon is just as accurate as shoulder fired prone.....

I dont recall ever agreeing or disagreeing with you. Dont even know who you are lol.

Guess I got my legion of closet followers here, thx for making me a celebretie

 

[Raven1986]

Zakky, don't be too stingy. Just play the game, visit us on the 40-1 servers and tell us about your dreadful experiences with the MG42.

 

[mrsirr]

Proof please? In any case you said it yourself IN CASE. Doesnt change the fact that 1200 RPM produces a recoil that not even rambo himself could control.

While I agree that something could be done about the MG42, high rof doesn't produce high recoil; it's been pretty well established that plenty of people can handle the recoil. The issue is that it's seriously doubtful that an MGer would walk around with the MG at the ready; more likely he'd carry it by the carry handle when not deployed.

 

[Cwivey]

As long as the DP-28 (and the Type 99 / 96 ) is left alone then do what you will to the MG42's movement stance arrangement.

 

[Twrecks]

Uhh I think they would be better off laying the MG in the snow then shooting it from hip.....

Seriously? Your "deep snow" must be only a few inches. Not that you'll see it in game anyways.

How about a in-game senario: wading across the 1st river in Bridges? Can't prone there, nor should you. In inverse, there's a lot of places you can't prone or deploy that would work IRL, but are not allowed to. In every RO2 map you can find examples, RS maps are even worse.

Hip fire is a smalll colsolation for all that is no prone/deploy.

Zak, what is your opinion about shoulder firing the MG42? Looking forward to your hyperbole...

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I dont recall ever agreeing or disagreeing with you. Dont even know who you are lol.

Everyone knows Floyd, look at his qualifications in his sig

 

[Zakarro]

high rof doesn't produce high recoil;

Ohh yeah? Ever hear of of a FAMAS? Or AEK-971 which needs gas compensator for the recoil due to 900 RPM?

 

[mrsirr]

Ohh yeah? Ever hear of of a FAMAS? Or AEK-971 which needs gas compensator for the recoil due to 900 RPM?

That's not about recoil, that's about sway. It's to help the point of aim move around less when firing fullauto. It should be noted that the MG42 is far heavier than either of those firearms, though it does use a slightly beefier round, so I don't know exactly how it would compare. I don't think it should stay perfectly still but I've been surprised before.

 

[HellsJanitor]

If you're getting 'farmed' by an MG42, all you need is a sniper/rifleman

Yes, a Sniper/Riflemen in a high fortification or in an area with a good field of view that isn't in the 180* view radius of the MG while simultaneously not being suppressed, I.e. outright flanking, which is not possible on many maps either through spawn-zone protection or difficulty.

or artillery strike to take down the MG.

What kind of Commander would waste an artillery strike to kill one camping MG? This solution makes little sense when in the grand scheme of a match such a move would not be effective.

Or assault class could find a way to flank.

Again, this goes back to the fact that flanking (on many maps) is either extremely difficult or not possible due to restrictions on the map. Red October, for example, you cannot advance past objective "A" into objective "C" without hitting the zone limit.

Play smart, and you wont suck.

Shocking how so readily this forum will ignore blatant gameplay issues just to flaunt their apparent skill. I have been playing RO2 since Day-1 as have many others who noted specific issues in this game; it is not newcomers who come to the forums to note various issues and promote solutions, but the seasoned players who have the experience and knowledge to bring such issues to light.

I think all that is needed is that extra click (and time delay) to bring up the mg to firing position and you hold that position when walking UNTIL you reload or go back to jogging/sprinting. Then you relax your carrying stance and will again need that extra click (and time delay) to go back to hip firing...

I agree with this suggestion.
This brokers a happy medium between the two-sides here; for those who believe MGs should be allowed to hip-fired it allows you to do so, and for those against the ability it keep MGs from being able to storm buildings like Assault classes.

According to a few lost references, German MG42ers were trained to hip and shoulder fire, in the event it was required. Like they had "cannot prone here" and "cannot deploy here" popping up all the time when terrain or any rest wasn't available, like when walking through deep snow...

I'm quite skeptical of this; it is doubtful that in 1939-1941 the Wehrmacht expected to be sending infantry into cold/snowy conditions when all their campaigns up to this point occurred in Spring/Summer seasons.
In addition, it is also doubtful to assume that during the period of 1942-1945 the German military expected to be making any offenses that would require MG-gunners to master such a skill that would no doubt take many hours and cartridges to learn.

 

[Floyd]

I think the point being missed (and made ever so clear by the infamous youtube of the guy hip-shooting an MG-42....and there is also war footage of a particular hip-shooting German who almost takes his comrade's head off...But I digress)...


The point being missed is that even if one wanted to shoot the MG-42 (or any other high caliber, high rate of fire weapon) from the hip, in real life one would not be even remotely as effective as one can be in game.

 

[Raven1986]

Well, Spetz said here on earlier that he could hipshoot people at 150m, if this was true he must have guided bullets. My best hipshot with an MG was 50m and this was pure luck and I could never reproduce this.
Hipshot killing works nicely in very close quarters, like barracks or the staircases in Zabs and Pavlovs houses.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Well, Spetz said here on earlier that he could hipshoot people at 150m, if this was true he must have guided bullets. My best hipshot with an MG was 50m and this was pure luck and I could never reproduce this.

I'm sure that the 150m mg hipshot is the exception and not the rule if it happened at all.

There is no need to exaggerate distance claims in order to try and prove a point when the simple facts already do most of that. Such exaggeration just makes it look like the person has some sort of agenda (cough cough give the mg42 to the allied players cough cough )

 

[Zakarro]

That's not about recoil, that's about sway. It's to help the point of aim move around less when firing fullauto. It should be noted that the MG42 is far heavier than either of those firearms, though it does use a slightly beefier round, so I don't know exactly how it would compare. I don't think it should stay perfectly still but I've been surprised before.

Sway as in drift yes I know, but it goes both ways. Recoil and drift

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Proof please? In any case you said it yourself IN CASE. Doesnt change the fact that 1200 RPM produces a recoil that not even rambo himself could control.
My examples? Its not example its true, and its not just modern COs, even in soviet union or even wermarcht they probably did same thing. Ever hear of discipline? As for the videos I didnt post them, others did and they are what hold no weight.

There's a few videos around of people demonstrating how to shoot the MG42 from the hip properly.

In terms of tactics, the Germans used LMG on the move during an assault, at the front, while Rifle fire was considered mostly effective in short range once distance was closed. This is info from bayonetstrength.150m.com.

 

[Raven1986]

Germans used LMGs for house-to-house fighting due to shortage of MP38/40 and captured Soviet ones.
As I said before give Soviets 3-4 more SMG slots. If these are captured constantly by the Germans it's correct they fail.

 

[Zakarro]

There's a few videos around of people demonstrating how to shoot the MG42 from the hip properly.

In terms of tactics, the Germans used LMG on the move during an assault, at the front, while Rifle fire was considered mostly effective in short range once distance was closed. This is info from bayonetstrength.150m.com.

I dont care about videos, there was a video here of a guy with dual barrets, whats that supposed to prove?

 

[gyps]

Or just nerf the MG's so they cant be hip fired

 

[Spetz]

I played a game on Barracks last night where one player on the Axis team was using the MG42 only for room clearing. He wasn't using it deployed for area denial, cutting off reinforcements, or suppressing fire. He was using it for CQB only. That means it's broken.