You would only need extra guns for the extra ammo right?
If you need the extra ammo, then you are a poor player.
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Drop weapon only for self option
- Thread starter Swift-Brutal-Death
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You would only need extra guns for the extra ammo right?
If you need the extra ammo, then you are a poor player.
The flamer is a support class. The flamer is not supposed to be in the front line. The flamer should be behind everyone and shooting OVER everyone's head at the FARTHEST mobs. The flamer can deal more damage than any other class if played correctly. The flamer shooting be lighting a mob. Rinse. Repeat. Let DoT work magic. Have lots of mobs burning at once. The flamer should be softening up every mob, except scrakes and FPs. Why do you think the flamer gains experience from DAMAGE and not from KILLS?
Flamers should NEVER shoot at husks with flamethrowers because it is a huge waste of fuel. If a husk pops up, everyone should know they need to kill it and if they don't, say something.
No mob should be "hosed down" unless that mob IS RIGHT THERE ON TOP OF THE FLAMER. And if that happens, the flamer needs to switch weapons and kill the mob with the proper weapon.
The problem with the flamer class is everyone who plays it wants to either solo with it or be out in front with the sharpies and commandos. And they get pissed off at the class when they can't.
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Tactically this is exactly right, except for early rounds when the commandos take all the money and don't share... Flamers don't receive money for mobs that have damage but not killed by them. On the piling of guns, I was a recent game, playing a Firebug and got accused of taking someone's gun that was larger than my weight blocks could possibly allow. None Firebug players don't seem to realize how much the flame thrower weighs...
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If we are honest... you'd have to be a TOTAL moron to use a flamethrower on suicidal as anything other than a Firebug... its like a Berserker taking the LAW... its juust gonna be fail... funny as hell... but fail 
I've never had a problem stockpiling... mostly because the weapons I tend to drop as firebug are the ones with maybe 1 tank left, so I buy a new one, and keep the other in reserve in case I have to waste a full fuel canister on a fleshie giving me the evil eye.
The weapon is one I dont need, and I only use it as a last resort, so if someone nicks it... good luck to em
I've never had a problem stockpiling... mostly because the weapons I tend to drop as firebug are the ones with maybe 1 tank left, so I buy a new one, and keep the other in reserve in case I have to waste a full fuel canister on a fleshie giving me the evil eye.
The weapon is one I dont need, and I only use it as a last resort, so if someone nicks it... good luck to em
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Originally Posted by tripwirechris 
duh, if I stockpile I am a poor player cuz I spent my money on extra guns.
I'm sorry you misunderstood me, I was just making a joke. As you can see from my location I understand English just fine, so I guess either you don't find humor in things or you that just had to say I'm a poor player one more time huh? Thanks
edit:I see now that my info says WA and people might not know what that means, I live in the U.S.
duh, if I stockpile I am a poor player cuz I spent my money on extra guns.
I'm sorry you misunderstood me, I was just making a joke. As you can see from my location I understand English just fine, so I guess either you don't find humor in things or you that just had to say I'm a poor player one more time huh? Thanks
edit:I see now that my info says WA and people might not know what that means, I live in the U.S.
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![[UIT] Akame](/data/avatars/s/14/14608.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
At high perk levels, non-tier three weapons cost next to nothing so stocking up on additional weapons on the ground is neither costly nor balanced. For the same cost as picking up a m79 as a reserve weapon, I could purchase roughly five flamethrowers. Ammo considerations were not made to take into account stockpiling and I rarely find that I need to do so even playing level 4 firebug on hard. Suicidal is tough as you really are a hindrance to the team, even when you are playing well, because you could be playing an effective perk.
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I'm sorry you misunderstood me, I was just making a joke. As you can see from my location I understand English just fine, so I guess either you don't find humor in things or you that just had to say I'm a poor player one more time huh? Thanks
Or c) I thought you were making a sarcastic remark. (cue the kitty picture for emphasis)
Why would you think that I thought you didn't understand English? Oh, and nice passive-aggressive insult. Classy.
Anyway, my bad for misunderstanding you.
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I'm done. I see that now weapons dropped lose half ammo. So i guess I was in the wrong on this idea. I'll try to keep those thoughts to myself from now on. : )
DONE
DONE
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Err, no matter what you say, it doesnt change the fact that flamer lacks ammo. Its not just my opinion, its a fact, and you cant change it. Its like AA12, except that its not even nearly as powerful as AA12 (which is why low ammunation is good for that weapon, but not for the flamer).
Ive been playing suicidal ALOT and the only perk I have troubles with is the firebug, no matter how I try to safe ammo and everything. For everyone else its pretty much a cakewalk.
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Says you.
It may not be just your opinion, but it still is an opinion. Yes, you are correct; I can't change it.
Firebug is a challenging class to play. But it can out damage every other class.
Tell you what... I'll play only firebug for the next week and comment back here. Sound fair?
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only one class can be 'desperate" for ammo, but still that's only if the class is not used correctly. as a level6 firebug on suicidal (first of all you really have no need to even stay as that class after wave 5.....i'll FB for a few waves, but there are other more suitable classes from 5 and up) but if you want to stay FB, it's really not that hard to not run out of ammo unless you are wasting constant streams at targets you need not shoot at. you can also carry dual handcannons and a 9mm. sure it'd be nice for the FB to get another perk specific weapon (only has one currently) but even at it's current loadout, a level6 has a canister of 160 plus 3 more reserve canisters. you can make it last even through the later waves with 200/300 specimens to kill.
there is a reason why weight blocks are in place. the game's balance is designed around maximum player loadouts and by stockpiling a 2nd primary weapon, you are breaking that balance. sure it's realistic that you could buy extra weapons and drop them (stockpile) but because that can cause balance problems, that's probably why the game allows other players to pick up those weapons to help prevent selfish stockpiling.
although, i actually APPROVE of one form of stockpiling, but not for reasons given in the OP. if i can afford extra weapons, i will buy them and leave them outside the traders in case a player dies during the round and needs a weapon to use or sell for the next wave. this will really come in handy if there are other players that are not at least a level5, especially if you're on suicidal. it saves more time for a player to just pick up a gun compared to having to wait around in the trader handing out money to one guy.
my opinion is that a better equipped team will increase your chance of survival more than giving yourself an extra weapon would. if you have to stockpile extra weapons for yourself, you're either really bad at this game, or just really selfish. either way, that's not going to benefit the rest of the team and the goal of this co-op game is map victory.
there is a reason why weight blocks are in place. the game's balance is designed around maximum player loadouts and by stockpiling a 2nd primary weapon, you are breaking that balance. sure it's realistic that you could buy extra weapons and drop them (stockpile) but because that can cause balance problems, that's probably why the game allows other players to pick up those weapons to help prevent selfish stockpiling.
although, i actually APPROVE of one form of stockpiling, but not for reasons given in the OP. if i can afford extra weapons, i will buy them and leave them outside the traders in case a player dies during the round and needs a weapon to use or sell for the next wave. this will really come in handy if there are other players that are not at least a level5, especially if you're on suicidal. it saves more time for a player to just pick up a gun compared to having to wait around in the trader handing out money to one guy.
my opinion is that a better equipped team will increase your chance of survival more than giving yourself an extra weapon would. if you have to stockpile extra weapons for yourself, you're either really bad at this game, or just really selfish. either way, that's not going to benefit the rest of the team and the goal of this co-op game is map victory.
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First of all I am not really bad at this game. And secondly I share **** tons of money and heal people all the time whether or not I'm a medic, the fact that I do share money and heal people and run in front of raging fps so players can get away proves that I am not a selfish player.
I believe that generally speaking I do benefit the team and just because I want to drop ONE gun for myself (notice I have not spoke of massing more than one weapon) does not mean that I completely stop doing good things for the team. You can't just speculate that because I want to prepare myself for a nasty wave means I suck or am really selfish. So take your offensive holier and better than you attitude and shove is up your ***
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Here is the firebug experiment so far. I've played on hard for the past couple days (yes, yes, yes, you were mainly complaining about suicidal. While I have a lvl 6 firebug, I haven't played firebug in months. I have to get my tactics and timing down first before going to suicidal)
1) So far there is plenty of ammo. By sending out a 1 or 2 ammo shot every second or so, a firebug can effectively continuously fire during the entire wave. Out of every game I've played so far, I've only ever run out of ammo during two waves and both times I was on a bad team and I had to cover a player that went way out and in the convergence of several spawn points.
2) I hate firebug. Like demo, it is purely a support class and can not stand on it's own. Played properly, it makes every other class more powerful, but the firebug will always need to rely on others.
3) There seems to be some bug with picking up ammo after spawning.
4) I've yet to have a problem with cash. After 1 or 2 waves I have a cannon. After another wave, I have my dual cannons. Now, I scavenge more than most. When the kills are single digits, I am always running around grabbing ammo boxes and such.
5) I can stay out front for most of the waves, but once the multiple FPs start rushing, I have to rely on others to take care of them and the multiple scrakes. There just isn't enough ammo or space/time to do enough damage and kill them while still having fuel for killing small stuff.
I'll be playing suicide level this weekend.
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You want to drop weapons, or a weapon (yeah, like I believe you drop a single weapon), because you need more ammo or an additional different weapon. You then get pissy when someone else takes a weapon you drop. Ever think that, like you, they need that weapon as well?
Again, classy.
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Ok, the week is up and I've played firebug hard and suicidal.
I don't think the firebug lacks ammo. I always had plenty of ammo during hard difficulty and I usually always had enough in suicidal difficulty. The only times I ran out during suicidal is when the rest of the team wasn't killing mobs fast enough and I had to hose down a group for 3 to 5 seconds. Multiple times.
Now the FB, along with demo, is pure support class. There is no way around it. Can't solo with flamer. On a couple games on suicidal, I was actually out in front with the flamer.
Money was never a problem. Always had enough to refill the flamer and armor each wave and I always had my double cannons midway through the game.
There are many benefits to the FB. Penetrating fire so so need to dodge players in front. Since there are only 4 canisters, it is extremely easy to ration ammo so it lasts the entire wave. Wonderful incendiary grenades.
Firing a 1 to 2 ammo burst of flame every second gives the firebug an almost continuous flame that lasts the entire wave. As long as the rest of the team does what they are supposed to do. And there in lies the rub...
As long as the team is killing the flesh pounds, scrakes, and husks, there is plenty of ammo. More than enough. If the team isn't killing husks, then the firebug has to break out the pistols or secondary weapon of choice. Other than getting the achievement, there is absolutely no reason why the flamer should flame the husk. If the team isn't kill the FPs or scrakes fast enough, then the flamer can run out of ammo. But if the rest of the team isn't carrying their weight, then the one guy who is killing everything will run out of ammo no matter the weapon or class.
What benefit does more ammo provide? The ability to continually hose down more mobs. That's it. And the firebug shouldn't be hosing down mobs. Proper technique prevents the firehose technique 90% of the time.
To wrap everything up, while I occasionally ran out of ammo with the firebug, I don't think it needs more ammo; hard or suicide levels.
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Duh.
So you are saying firebug got more than enough ammo ASSUMING your team kills all the specimens? Well yeah, sure I guess you are right about that one.
I mean come on, shoot one burst of flame on a gorefast which is charging at you, and before it burns to dead it has attacked you twice UNLESS a teammate of your kills it OR you shoot multiple bursts. Same thing with bloats, sirens, scrakes, fleshpounds and husks, except that most of these have to hosed down in order to kill them quickly enough, which would be fine if firebug had a canister or two extra ammo.
I agree that it is a support class and isnt supposed to hose down its targets, but if you are being realistic there is almost always at least one situtation in later waves where you are forced to hose down a target (or multiple targets) in order to stay alive. Thats where you run out of ammo, because for example a scrake would take a whole canister if not more (Thats assuming you would be attacked by a scrake and no-one else is there to take care of it. That and you dont have a katana).
But, what would fix this lack of ammo, is a secondary firebug weapon.
Thats all I have to say, Im not interested in a quarrel right now.
So you are saying firebug got more than enough ammo ASSUMING your team kills all the specimens? Well yeah, sure I guess you are right about that one.
I mean come on, shoot one burst of flame on a gorefast which is charging at you, and before it burns to dead it has attacked you twice UNLESS a teammate of your kills it OR you shoot multiple bursts. Same thing with bloats, sirens, scrakes, fleshpounds and husks, except that most of these have to hosed down in order to kill them quickly enough, which would be fine if firebug had a canister or two extra ammo.
I agree that it is a support class and isnt supposed to hose down its targets, but if you are being realistic there is almost always at least one situtation in later waves where you are forced to hose down a target (or multiple targets) in order to stay alive. Thats where you run out of ammo, because for example a scrake would take a whole canister if not more (Thats assuming you would be attacked by a scrake and no-one else is there to take care of it. That and you dont have a katana).
But, what would fix this lack of ammo, is a secondary firebug weapon.
Thats all I have to say, Im not interested in a quarrel right now.
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Whatever dude. You want to act like like a jerk? Fine.
Actually, it is my fault. I should have known better than try to have a conversation with you. I spent over a week considering your opinion and what is your response? Not spending any time considering mine and a smart *** reply. Fantastic.
Oh, and "No, i'm not saying that the firebug got more than enough ammo ASSUMING your team kills all the specimens." I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying what I typed and I didn't type that. Only someone who completely ignored what I typed and read what they wanted to read would start and end with that "conclusion."
My fault for thinking you would consider what I typed.
Yes, multiple bursts. 3 IIRC. Multiple bursts also allow aiming at background mobs between bursts.
Would be fine if the firebug had infinite ammo as well. But it doesn't. More ammo ALWAYS makes the game easier.
And proper technique allows for a few hosing situations during a wave. Being a suppor class meant that I HAD to play in a barricade situation 80% of the time. And yes, a group of crawlers, or clots, or gorefasts, or sirens always popped around the corner, more than a once a wave, and I had to hose them down. Hated to do it because it is a waste of ammo and it severely limits visibility for the team. But it happened and it had to be done.
But I also didn't shoot at the single clot in the doorway. Or the gorefast. Learning what NOT to shoot at is just as important as learning what to shoot.
That is why I said the firebug is a support class. The firebug HAS to rely on others. Same as demo. I don't like it much either. But if the firebug is doing what he is supposed to be doing, then the other guys are free to focus on the big stuff.[/quote]
That is why I carry dual cannons.
From your reply, it seems a quarrel is all you are interested in.
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I agree. Flamebug is very useful on wave 1 and 2, I usually find that I have the most kills and plenty of cash (spawning with armor helps). However, as the waves progress, flamebug just gets left behind and is left to a minor supporting role.
It's a bad sign if they have to take the front lines, because there is no time for specimens to burn, as your teammates are also shooting them.
Other than those specimens, what else is there? Hmm, the clots, crawlers, gorefasts, stalkers and sirens. If I recall, Commando's are excellent at taking those down.
I agree with the fact that flamers don't need more ammo. Yet it would be nice if the flamethrower weighed less blocks.
Lastly, I find your claim that "Firebugs can outdamage every other perk" to be a tad ridiculous. You're telling me that a Lv6. Flamebug (with flamer and deagles for example) can do more damage than a SS with an m14?
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