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Balance and other things, a note from Yoshi.

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#61
Heh, the only people I've seen previously who think that the balance is perfect as it is have been trolls. Nanostrike knows what I'm talkin' about.

I just hope we can keep all this in perspective. Just remember what TWI has done in comparison with other developers. I saw a post a while back about completely redoing the class system to be perk based, for free. Can anyone imagine seriously asking, say, activision or ubisoft to patch their games, let alone revamp their classes for free? Its fine to ask for new stuff, but just try to keep everything in perspective. ;)

Tripwire, can you give out free ponies with your next DLC? pls!? Thanks guys.
 
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#62
to Yoshiro and TW: please ignore the small but vocal minority of anti-Sharpshooter ragers that are plaguing your forums. The game is still very well balanced. The only legitimate arguement is that the m14 has too large of an ammo capacity and is possibly too inexpensive even for mid level SS perks. Perhaps you all could convince them to produce conclusive video evidence of the supposed m14 rape on suicidal? I've tried, but I'm just a meer community member.....as for some of the other perks like firebug, I'm sure that TW will eventually give them upgrades and will make the game even better through other improvements.

Even though I personally think the game is now somewhat "easy" for the first 8 or so waves even on suicidal, that has nothing to do with the game being broken....that is the result of skilled players putting in hours of play to figure out what works and how to effectively beat maps. The patty is still as tough as he's always been. Nevertheless, it is a only a small fraction of players that will tell you that the game is "easy" to any extent. If the game was THAT broken then the Steam numbers certainly aren't reflecting that considering the numbers have doubled since the last major update.....if so many people think it's that then they should just stop playing uuntil they see the "improvements" that they want. When the numbers start going down, then you'll know something is really wrong.
 
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#63
-[SiN]-bswearer said:
tThe patty is still as tough as he's always been.
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While I agree with most of your post, I have to laugh at this one. Since the introduction of pipe bombs the Patriarch's nowhere near as difficult as he used to be. I'm not complaining about pipe bombs as they can be a godsend on hard or suicidal, but I think tweaking should be done to further reduce the damage Pat takes from them if they're in a cluster.
 
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#64
If you think a gun that has no problems in dealing with any enemy in the whole game at any range and has a 20 shot mag and 300 shots total while you need 1-5 (if you can somewhat aim) shots for everything weaker than a FP so you don't ever need to actually switch to a backup weapon when having it is balanced, you're a moron.
No other gun in the whole game can -or should- do that right now.
If you think the chainsaw is good for anything, let alone being 'balanced' right now, you're a moron.
If you think the crossbow in the hands of any class should be able to 1 shot scrakes and 2 shot fleshpounds, making them a joke, you're a moron.

Hell if you actually play the game and then say it's 'balanced', you're blind. Or delusional.
It's anything but that.

For that matter I do in fact hope they look at the game objectively before letting themselves being influenced by some people here.
Then again, they probably also did that and decided to nerf the chainsaw into oblivion... oh well we'll see.
 
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#65
9_6 said:
If you think a gun that has no problems in dealing with any enemy in the whole game at any range and has a 20 shot mag and 300 shots total while you need 1-5 (if you can somewhat aim) shots for everything weaker than a FP so you don't ever need to actually switch to a backup weapon when having it is balanced, you're a moron..
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Where you taking about the scar or the M14?
 
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#67
@Zeris
Getting level 5 perk spawn weapons helps too but it is mostly a matter of playing the game and understanding what tactics work and what don't. I rarely see any glitchers anymore because it is becoming slightly harder to glitch and much easier to actually play.

@balanced game backers
My biggest beef with this game is the difference between mod and retail difficulty. Normal is mod easy. Suicidal was actually suicidal. A good replayable co-op game will have a mode that is quite nearly impossible to complete. Suicidal is not this. A decent team armed with level 5 or 6 perks that doesn't work well together can still manage to beat suicidal quite often. And I don't see why you guys have no problem with weapons that outclass all other weapons that can easily be obtained in the first or second wave.
 
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#69
Hello, I love Commando, Demo and Sharpshooter, they are my favorite perks, which is why I have them all levelled to 6. I don't play the other because they are um too good! I love a challenge! Yes, so please leave the WEAKSAUCE new weapons the way they are. The game is fine as is! Btw, you can see from my huge, colorful text that the arguments of the "Sharpshooter Haters:mad:" are irrelevant.

Obviously, before the new weapons, the game was horribly imbalanced, with Commando and SS being way too crappy compared to dominating perks like Firebug! Thank you for fixing balance by giving the horribly weak perks like Commando and SS weapons that are still crappy and challenging, but a little better now so they can stop grovelling at the feet of the all-powerful Firebug.

PS: Maybe the M14 is a little good, so if you could reduce the total ammo from 9,000 to 8,990, that would be sweet! THANKS TWI

PPS: Also try making a video of 6 SS kicking lots of ***! YOUR COMPUTERS WILL EXPLODE! That is because it is unpossible to kick *** as a SS, also this is clear proof that the Firebugs are way overpowered, have you ever had your computer explode while kicking *** in suicidal as a team of Firebugs? It does not happen! NERF FIREBUG PLZ

:rolleyes:
 
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#70
SgtShaftoe said:
Heh, the only people I've seen previously who think that the balance is perfect as it is have been trolls. Nanostrike knows what I'm talkin' about.
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I do, and the balance is definitely gonna need looked at, but...

Zeris said:
Maybe some of you are 'omgwtf crazy good' at Killing Floor for one reason or another, but not all of us find it 'too easy' and enjoy what's there, instead of always whining for changes.
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We've gotta keep in mind, when everyone is screaming "Too easy", that we might ACTUALLY be above-average players here and it might only seem easy to us. To newbies or even average players, even normal can be a nightmare.
 
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#71
The most important balance issue is that m14 is too good. Too much ammo is the problem IMO.

Then its the chainsaw. Much more damage to primary fire could make it fun, but katana is still gonna be way better.

Xbow might need a slight nerf. Fleshpound down in 1 shot (level 6 sharpie) is a little too good in 6 man suicidal. Should be like the medic gets in 2 shots right now. (Decap and bleed out).
 
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#72
Nanostrike said:
I do, and the balance is definitely gonna need looked at, but...



We've gotta keep in mind, when everyone is screaming "Too easy", that we might ACTUALLY be above-average players here and it might only seem easy to us. To newbies or even average players, even normal can be a nightmare.
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Then keep your "pro" community happy. Throw another difficulty at them. 200% health, 150% movement, 200% damage, 30% more spawns than suicidal. We'll call it 'You Die Now' difficulty.
 
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#73
Wildcolt said:
Then keep your "pro" community happy. Throw another difficulty at them. 200% health, 150% movement, 200% damage, 30% more spawns than suicidal. We'll call it 'You Die Now' difficulty.
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Just throwing out more difficulties is usually a poor idea. I would be a much better idea to balance the game to work with the difficulties originally set out in the game. It wouldn't be bad to add one but it is no substitute for balancing.

Nanostrike said:
We've gotta keep in mind, when everyone is screaming "Too easy", that we might ACTUALLY be above-average players here and it might only seem easy to us. To newbies or even average players, even normal can be a nightmare.
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No matter the balance beginner is far too easy. Make this difficult worth playing, balance the weapons, and fix how easy the game is and everyone is happy.
 
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#75
smilin said:
YES.

Please do not fix something that isn't broken just because of a very vocal minority. I am happy with the game balance as it is.
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o_O, minority? You are in them minority thinking the game is fully balanced atm. Its not terribly unbalanced or unplayable, but there are definiately some issues with the current weapons/perks/difficulity.
 
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#76
Deafmute said:
So what's the M14's weakness then?
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It has the ****tiest iron sights in the game making the LAR, Bullpup, SCAR, Xbow, better at long range.

It has the ****ty laser that helps you aim all the way out to ranges that you could hit with modest skill anyway. I find that the latency on the dot means when shooting a single target its faster just to shoot without it and risk missing the head. If there are multiple targets or a heavy target then a bullpup/AK/.50cal/SCAR/9mm etc. The time lost to zoom is negligible when considering you'll be firing like that for a 1/2 magazine or more.

It lacks the power of the Xbow and really seems like a magazine based replacement for the LAR.

It's heavy enough that it cannot be used alongside the Xbow.

Its rare that I use this weapon. Commando+Scar is a better choice than SS+m14 and if you have your heart set on SS then the Xbow is the better way to go and really a more helpful loadout for your team.
 
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#78
smilin said:
It has the ****tiest iron sights in the game making the LAR, Bullpup, SCAR, Xbow, better at long range.

It has the ****ty laser that helps you aim all the way out to ranges that you could hit with modest skill anyway. I find that the latency on the dot means when shooting a single target its faster just to shoot without it and risk missing the head. If there are multiple targets or a heavy target then a bullpup/AK/.50cal/SCAR/9mm etc. The time lost to zoom is negligible when considering you'll be firing like that for a 1/2 magazine or more.

It lacks the power of the Xbow and really seems like a magazine based replacement for the LAR.

It's heavy enough that it cannot be used alongside the Xbow.

Its rare that I use this weapon. Commando+Scar is a better choice than SS+m14 and if you have your heart set on SS then the Xbow is the better way to go and really a more helpful loadout for your team.
Click to expand...
Are we playing the same game?
 
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#79
HaTeMe said:
o_O, minority? You are in them minority thinking the game is fully balanced atm. Its not terribly unbalanced or unplayable, but there are definiately some issues with the current weapons/perks/difficulity.
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Exactly. It's "not terribly unbalanced".

Don't put any words into my mouth indicating I think it's perfect. I don't, and furthermore I think it never will be.

I'm sure many of you are gamers that have experienced balance issues elsewhere (TF2, most MMOs, blah...) and you know that it's impossible to get perfect. Furthermore someone will *always* believe that their favorite class needs a buff or their most hated class needs a nerf. When game designers go to tweak balance more often than not they upset it in a different way.

I just really don't think it's so bad that it needs any sort of overhaul and I would prefer they leave it as is. And really I do think there is a vocal minority calling for a rebalance. I play with a lot more people than I see participating on the forums and I'm not hearing the gripe from them.

If TWI chooses to **** with things I hope they go with the "buff the weak" rather than "nerf the strong" strategy as it usually pisses players off when you do the latter.
 
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