Ah yes, the same level of detail in the buildings, creating a degree of immersion and feeling of being in a real place equal to that of Lazur.
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Level Design [Preview] RO-X
- Thread starter Drecks
- Start date
Working on the Cholm town area now. It didn't have that many stone buildings so i will add more wood stuff now.
But it's not my intention to make an 100 % historical accurate map. About historical accuracy i did read some replies to add limited tanks or even no panzerfausts for the Germans. Which in my opinion creates an unplayable map.
To archieve a normal gameplay you can't always hang on to historical accuracy. Historical accuracy is nice but for a mapper it's not possible to make it that way. To often i thought what iff FPS wasn't an issue in levelmaking.......
So there will be tanks and stuff for both team. The only thing i would like to have a static mesh of a snow covered rock.... And i'm curious how FPS will be at the end cause i like detail....
Screens are from an area which is not finished yet but it will give a little view on a small townarea.
But it's not my intention to make an 100 % historical accurate map. About historical accuracy i did read some replies to add limited tanks or even no panzerfausts for the Germans. Which in my opinion creates an unplayable map.
To archieve a normal gameplay you can't always hang on to historical accuracy. Historical accuracy is nice but for a mapper it's not possible to make it that way. To often i thought what iff FPS wasn't an issue in levelmaking.......
So there will be tanks and stuff for both team. The only thing i would like to have a static mesh of a snow covered rock.... And i'm curious how FPS will be at the end cause i like detail....
Screens are from an area which is not finished yet but it will give a little view on a small townarea.
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Looking good Drecks, noticed u come play on our server few times. Didn't know u were a mapper. That cool! Keep up the good work.
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As promised wooden stuff. I need to add some damage to it, but this is the intact version.
And another addition is the custom minesign i made yesterday.
And another addition is the custom minesign i made yesterday.
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On immediate inspection I think you need to change the skybox - the grey / blue sky and grey looking buildings are a bit overwhelming and it lacks that artistic edge because it's just looking very generic atm - I think it needs some contrast with light and shade - lighting looks all ambient - no shadows to bring it to life - it's just dull looking - snowy landscapes don't have to be dull and lifeless as illustrated on Vivid's RO-Kuzernki
This map illustrates what kind of draw distances you should be shooting for - it also shows how landscape actually works and he has a logical layout of buildings and enclosures - I think in fact just looking at the screenshots of his map he's actually using the same skybox and skyring but works much better in his map for some reason - take another look at yours when you get a minute
Not quite so Christmas Cardy but some images to illustrate what I'm getting at:
http://torta.hu/images/landscape/Landscape Photography - Snow Scene03.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/images/2005/01/24/snow_svenski_08_420x284.jpg
http://blog.paulsveda.com/_photos/2006_01_22.jpg
http://www.gaysmills.org/images/Cabins_snowy.jpg
Just a few examples - mostly everything really crisp and big emphasis on shadows etc - just adds to the scene
If that isn't what you're looking for maybe something like this:
http://zero.eng.ucmerced.edu/rcbales/Itase/itase99/300h/mcmc snow storm.jpg
http://modersmal.skolutveckling.se/daripashto/dari/foto_album/Snow storm near Ishkashem.jpg
Lruce
This map illustrates what kind of draw distances you should be shooting for - it also shows how landscape actually works and he has a logical layout of buildings and enclosures - I think in fact just looking at the screenshots of his map he's actually using the same skybox and skyring but works much better in his map for some reason - take another look at yours when you get a minute
Not quite so Christmas Cardy but some images to illustrate what I'm getting at:
http://torta.hu/images/landscape/Landscape Photography - Snow Scene03.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/images/2005/01/24/snow_svenski_08_420x284.jpg
http://blog.paulsveda.com/_photos/2006_01_22.jpg
http://www.gaysmills.org/images/Cabins_snowy.jpg
Just a few examples - mostly everything really crisp and big emphasis on shadows etc - just adds to the scene
If that isn't what you're looking for maybe something like this:
http://zero.eng.ucmerced.edu/rcbales/Itase/itase99/300h/mcmc snow storm.jpg
http://modersmal.skolutveckling.se/daripashto/dari/foto_album/Snow storm near Ishkashem.jpg
Lruce
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Try to make this map as historical accurate as you can. If there werent thing there, don't make them. Even if this is hard for the germans it will give them a challenge. I will love you when you can make this map 100% (or at least 99%) historical accurate.
BTW, if you're ready and want to make another one I've got a good idea for you.
BTW, if you're ready and want to make another one I've got a good idea for you.
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I'm stubborn and so i disagree about the dull looking and lifeless comments.
I want to make an early morning foggy map and when it's cloudy most shadows are gone. I don't like the bright views you mentioned and i want this one to be dark and foggy. So i'm inspired by other pictures i guess.
Maybe i could try to play with the fog color but as i mentioned this is the way i want it to be dark, foggy and dirty and it's not like the map you mentioned.
I want to make an early morning foggy map and when it's cloudy most shadows are gone. I don't like the bright views you mentioned and i want this one to be dark and foggy. So i'm inspired by other pictures i guess.
Maybe i could try to play with the fog color but as i mentioned this is the way i want it to be dark, foggy and dirty and it's not like the map you mentioned.
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It doesn't look dull, it is really nice with the fog. The thing that makes a map less lifeless is adding a lot of things like vegetation etc. Look at the map Makhavno (sp?) village. This is the map which is the most realistic map because of its atmosphere. If you can do this in your map it is great.
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Looking very nice Drecks. I am a big fan of Lazur so I am anxiously awaiting this one.
Personally I wouldn't mind having only Russian tanks and nothing but satchels and panzerfausts for the Germans but the map should not be too open then. This will limit the advantage of tanks.
On K
Personally I wouldn't mind having only Russian tanks and nothing but satchels and panzerfausts for the Germans but the map should not be too open then. This will limit the advantage of tanks.
On K
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Bananas<S18> said:
Don't use panzerfausts, they weren't there in 1942. Use only satchel charges, in the town every russian tank will be taken out by them because of the limited view the tankcrew have.
Don't use StuG III's when they weren't there.
Also don't use the Elefant wreck, it didn't exist in those days!
Use this article for the soviet tanks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II
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As i knew quite a lot about world war 2 and the eastern front i never took the
time to look for certain dates stuff was where. I did read about almost any battle
but panzers isn't my thing i'm more into infantry. I should ask Slyk and Lex about it.
I simply don't have time to figure it out myself.
As people so gladly want to see historical accuracy i love to know what i can add
cause i don't want to spoil time reading that. On the other side lazy as i am i could
even swift time period
Cause what would this combined arms map be without panzerfausts and 1 team without
almost any tank or other stuff I'm more and more feel like i'm in some sort of history channel
community wich by coincidence play a game. It's clear to me now why almost all other stock
panzermaps are situated late in the eastern campaign. So why should i bother to make an early
scenario. It's easier to make some battle situated winter 44-45.....
Yeah a more infantry based map situated in former Czechoslovakia would be nice.....
time to look for certain dates stuff was where. I did read about almost any battle
but panzers isn't my thing i'm more into infantry. I should ask Slyk and Lex about it.
I simply don't have time to figure it out myself.
As people so gladly want to see historical accuracy i love to know what i can add
cause i don't want to spoil time reading that. On the other side lazy as i am i could
even swift time period
Cause what would this combined arms map be without panzerfausts and 1 team without
almost any tank or other stuff I'm more and more feel like i'm in some sort of history channel
community wich by coincidence play a game. It's clear to me now why almost all other stock
panzermaps are situated late in the eastern campaign. So why should i bother to make an early
scenario. It's easier to make some battle situated winter 44-45.....
Yeah a more infantry based map situated in former Czechoslovakia would be nice.....
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The way I look at it gameplay first then historical accuracy. Drecks was inspired by the battle of Cholm to do this map. But for the sake of gameplay and his vision things may be different from what actually transpired. The fact of the matter is the majority of custom maps are terrible. Drecks is one of the better mappers out there because of the fact that he worries about gameplay more than historical accuracy. Would you all feel better if he just called this Snowy Village and gave no historical timeframe? At least then you can't complain about a burned out vehicle and other such nonsense. This is about gaming. If more historical accuracy can be sprinkled in then even better...but griping about a class name or if a specific gun is included is ridiculous when there is such a lack of good custom maps out there as it is.
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For me, historycal accuracy is important.
But first of all comes gameplay.
If the map is in alpha/beta stages, I do not care much about historycal accuracy. These things may get pointed out during alpha/beta testing (thats what it is for) But the finalproduct, should be historycal accurate. ( right weapons/vehicles/wrecks for the time and maybe a short Description of what units fought against each other.
If you do some research, the map itself will just be more immersive.
But first of all comes gameplay.
If the map is in alpha/beta stages, I do not care much about historycal accuracy. These things may get pointed out during alpha/beta testing (thats what it is for) But the finalproduct, should be historycal accurate. ( right weapons/vehicles/wrecks for the time and maybe a short Description of what units fought against each other.
If you do some research, the map itself will just be more immersive.
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Most of the tanks I see destroyed by infantry are done with a satchel charge, not the Panzerfaust. Also why don't you just try out how it is with only satchels, if there is enough cover it isn't that difficult. Maybe you can also give the germans the antitank rifle of the russians, this is more historical accurate then the Panzerfaust and they look the same.
Just adding debris, antitank obstacles and such gives the tanks a lot of disadvance.
Just adding debris, antitank obstacles and such gives the tanks a lot of disadvance.
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From the quality of his previous maps that I have played, I don't really think anyone is going to really complain when Drecks finishes the map his way. Suggestions can be good though if you notice something really out of place, such as a wrecked vehicle that yet didn't exist (see above).
In the end, when you play Dreck's maps, they are immersive and seem very real, even if not 100% accurate.
In the end, when you play Dreck's maps, they are immersive and seem very real, even if not 100% accurate.
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My script monkey tells me that his opinion is the creation of working AT guns should not be that difficult at all. He is still gathering his information and spending time digging through scripts and creating samples. IF this is true, we can surely get this map and the community as a whole some AT guns in the near future. Lex is busy trying to finish the BT7, but AT guns are near the top of the list.
As for historical accuracy, I am pain in the ass about it. I do comment on Dreck's work from that perspective. Most of the stuff pointed out here I would also nag him about. The issue I think he has, and one I note at times in general, is the tone/attitude of some posts. Often times they may say: "Make it historically accurate because...". But what you really read as a mapper is: "You stupid idiot, make it historically accurate because.... any fool would know that!".
Remember that mappers and modders do this stuff for free. Some are more stubborn. Some are not so educated on the historical facts. Some are just idiots. But some really do care and try their best and a gentle nudge in the right direction is better than barking at people. Especially when it involves an 'art form' and I will tell you, the good mappers are artists and we all suffer from the same pitfalls when talking about our projects. Changing a 'vision' is hard so be softer with the langauge. Diplomacy is an art as well, but one that will get your mappers motivated in the right way.
Sorry for the soap box, but it is needed.
Now. Drecks... yeah, I agree with the vehicles issues. BUT finish the bulk of the hardscape, get an idea of how it will flow and then lets talk about the weapons and balance issues. IF we can get you some pak guns, how will they influence the map if implemented later? etc.
As for historical accuracy, I am pain in the ass about it. I do comment on Dreck's work from that perspective. Most of the stuff pointed out here I would also nag him about. The issue I think he has, and one I note at times in general, is the tone/attitude of some posts. Often times they may say: "Make it historically accurate because...". But what you really read as a mapper is: "You stupid idiot, make it historically accurate because.... any fool would know that!".
Remember that mappers and modders do this stuff for free. Some are more stubborn. Some are not so educated on the historical facts. Some are just idiots. But some really do care and try their best and a gentle nudge in the right direction is better than barking at people. Especially when it involves an 'art form' and I will tell you, the good mappers are artists and we all suffer from the same pitfalls when talking about our projects. Changing a 'vision' is hard so be softer with the langauge. Diplomacy is an art as well, but one that will get your mappers motivated in the right way.
Sorry for the soap box, but it is needed.
Now. Drecks... yeah, I agree with the vehicles issues. BUT finish the bulk of the hardscape, get an idea of how it will flow and then lets talk about the weapons and balance issues. IF we can get you some pak guns, how will they influence the map if implemented later? etc.
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I don't need a soapbox.
It's the history channel which is getting annoying to me lately. I'm posting WIP screens and 50% of the replies is about out of time range panzers and weapons. Well now i'm planning to do a 1947 map where remnants of a stubborn German division are still fighting somewehere near Grozny.
Later on one of these German soldiers will married a Chechen woman and she will give birth to [SIZE=-1]Shamil Basajev. I can add any weapon i want then....
These AT guns will be very welcome Slyk.... But hey will consume at least 3 people to man which will left less players to drive vehicles. At least i really read something earleir on this forum when AT guns where mentioned......
[/SIZE]
It's the history channel which is getting annoying to me lately. I'm posting WIP screens and 50% of the replies is about out of time range panzers and weapons. Well now i'm planning to do a 1947 map where remnants of a stubborn German division are still fighting somewehere near Grozny.
Later on one of these German soldiers will married a Chechen woman and she will give birth to [SIZE=-1]Shamil Basajev. I can add any weapon i want then....
These AT guns will be very welcome Slyk.... But hey will consume at least 3 people to man which will left less players to drive vehicles. At least i really read something earleir on this forum when AT guns where mentioned......
[/SIZE]
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Actually, wrecks are not a big problem. If they add to the scope of the level, I'm still playing it. But you CAN have a functioning map without fausts. It's pretty easy for German sappers to sneak around an unsupported T34 and drop a satchel on its engine in those streets, especially with no cupola. And you might want to add captured Soviet weapons to the German list. Hmm, that gives me an idea. I wonder if the Germans ever used captured PTRD's.
And that 1947 scenario sounds great. You can add SKS's, T44's, and maybe a Maus! That would be fun. Of course, someone will need to model those.
And that 1947 scenario sounds great. You can add SKS's, T44's, and maybe a Maus! That would be fun. Of course, someone will need to model those.
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