Soviet Union ally with Germany ww2?

[chuy]

Lets assume Hitler never invaded the USSR. Also, Hitler allies with stalin ( I know never in a million years that would happen but lets assume they do become allies.) Would the west be able to at least stop (not defeat) these 3 powers (icluding japan)? Just imagine. The raw materials and oil desperately needed by german and japan are supplied by the soviet union. The virtually endless manpower of the USSR and pumping MASSIVE amounts of tanks and other war equipment towards the end of the war.Also, the TOP 2 countries with the best tanks of the war which was germany and ussr fighting together combined with a decent german luftwaffe. Pretty scary enemy if you ask me. The americans and brits might still have better control of the oceans but once they step in land....

Again, an alliance that would never happen but do you think the western democracies would have a chance?

The only one way out for the west is peace negotiations Imo.

 

[Nestor Makhno]

*Newsflash*

Hitler DID ally with Stalin, albeit briefly.

Though the Soviet Union would probably never have achieved the monumental growth in its military industry and the honing of its operational level military theory that it eventually did achieve, without Germany attacking them.

 

[Clowndoe]

To easy. England was alone against Germany when Hitler started Barbarossa. I think there were less than 10 divisions in England at the time. If Russia really wanted to help, it would be 10-to-1 easily. The U.S. wouldn't have to worry about invasion though, not soon at any rate; Operation Overlord was tough enough crossing a narrow channel, now imagine crossing an Ocean.

 

[chuy]

*Newsflash*

Hitler DID ally with Stalin, albeit briefly.

Though the Soviet Union would probably never have achieved the monumental growth in its military industry and the honing of its operational level military theory that it eventually did achieve, without Germany attacking them.

They signed a neutral pact, not an alliance. Stalin also invaded Poland so Germany wouldn't be so close to the mainland so they got some land from Poland as a buffer. Wouldn't the Soviet Union start pumping out war equipment if they wanted to if they saw more resistance from the US? I mean his Five year plan was done. I think they could start mass producing whenever they want. They absolutely had the capability (what happened real war). So they wouldn't be at 100% capacity.

Also, the allied could bomb manufacturing sites, but they still have USSR.

So what would be your take on that scenario Mr. Makhno?

 

[Clowndoe]

They signed a neutral pact, not an alliance.

Mutual defensive pact.* Basically an alliance.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Mutual defensive pact.* Basically an alliance.

Non-aggression pact, to be pedantic. Not mutual defense. Still an "alliance".

And on Poland - they had already agreed "spheres of influence" and how to carve up central Europe, the Balkans and Baltic States. Not that they quite stuck to the agreement, even during the period the pact was active.

 

[chuy]

Ok thanks for correcting me, but the ultimate question is if the western democracies would of had a chance up against the monster of an enemy? Nobody has really answered that. Probably unthinkable for some

 

[Clowndoe]

Non-aggression pact, to be pedantic. Not mutual defense. Still an "alliance".

Dammit Civ V!

Ok thanks for correcting me, but the ultimate question is if the western democracies would of had a chance up against the monster of an enemy? Nobody has really answered that. Probably unthinkable for some

I thought I did, I said England would get conquered in a heart-beat.

 

[chuy]

Dammit Civ V!



I thought I did, I said England would get conquered in a heart-beat.

How about if the US enters the war? How would they fare?

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

The big problem - for everyone - would be crossing any significant body of water. You can argue whether or not the English Channel counts as "significant"!

Personally, I don't see any way the UK could hold out against Germany + USSR. They would have been able to chew up Europe, Middle East, North Africa. UK could have been blockaded. Needs the Germans to build a lot more U-Boats, plus a strategic bombing capability. And for the US to keep out of the war!

 

[chuy]

The big problem - for everyone - would be crossing any significant body of water. You can argue whether or not the English Channel counts as "significant"!

Personally, I don't see any way the UK could hold out against Germany + USSR. They would have been able to chew up Europe, Middle East, North Africa. UK could have been blockaded. Needs the Germans to build a lot more U-Boats, plus a strategic bombing capability. And for the US to keep out of the war!

and if the US managed to get into the war? Would it be crushed like Britain also?

 

[Clowndoe]

To easy. England was alone against Germany when Hitler started Barbarossa. I think there were less than 10 divisions in England at the time. If Russia really wanted to help, it would be 10-to-1 easily. The U.S. wouldn't have to worry about invasion though, not soon at any rate; Operation Overlord was tough enough crossing a narrow channel, now imagine crossing an Ocean.

Did you just ignore this post completely? ^

 

[chuy]

Did you just ignore this post completely? ^

Of course I did not ignore that. This is speculations. There is no 1 answer. I want to get as many takes from other people how would it roll out.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

and if the US managed to get into the war? Would it be crushed like Britain also?

The USA always has the advantage of oceans. Getting an invasion fleet across a large body of water is HARD. But the same would apply to the US attempting an invasion in Europe from across the Atlantic. Largely a stalemate, if you ask me.

 

[Zakarro]

*Newsflash*

Hitler DID ally with Stalin, albeit briefly.

Though the Soviet Union would probably never have achieved the monumental growth in its military industry and the honing of its operational level military theory that it eventually did achieve, without Germany attacking them.

You know Nestor, I assumed you were educated with eloquent criticizim of me and my typos in the other thread defending the genius from the other forum I was debating with. But now I see the contrary, you really should brush up on your history. And also if you agree with my opponent from the other forum may I ask what your doing playing RO2 if its so "flawed"?
Anyways back on topic,you say and I quote:
Hitler "DID" ally with Stalin?!?!?! ROFLMFAO

Let me guess cause of the no agression pact?

Maybe in good jolly old england they dont tell you this but when Molotov went to sign that pact to DELAY the german invasion cause they knew it would happen he was scarred ****less that the nazis were going to poison his food. So as far as them being allies is just as ridicoulous as saying isreal is allied with hezbollah.

Stalin despised the nazis the moment he saw them rise to power and immediately saw them as a threat.

Should I mention how before Stalin was forced to sign that pact with germany he first offered chruchill and french a anti fascist hitler pact which both britain and france refused? Shall I mention also how britan were the ones that started the prequel to WW2 known as Spanish civil war by aiding the realease of genaralismo Francisco Franco from canary islands prison? A war that destoryed Spain and created a division of politicis still seen to this day.

 

[Zakarro]

Ok thanks for correcting me, but the ultimate question is if the western democracies would of had a chance up against the monster of an enemy? Nobody has really answered that. Probably unthinkable for some

Because its ludicrous to even think that, only americans and supposedly educated brits think stalin and hitler were allies. Which is the biggest load of crap I ever heard.
And what I said in previous post let me add this, not only did Stalin hate fascists and saw Hitler as a threat since Nazis rose to power.


But the situation was vice versa, seriously I don't know where brits and americans get their history lessons from, it ridicouslous. Do you even know how Hitler became Fuhrer and gained German peoples support? THE BURNING OF THE REICHSTAG. Which was a conspiracy done by the Nazis themselves and blamed on the German communists. Hence Nazis hated communists. You were saying Nestor? Ahem....

 

[nymets1104]

Allies does not equal "we love eachother" . A perfect example would be the Soviet Union and the US. Did they meet your definition of Allies? Because neither country trusted the other and would have been perfectly happy if the other country collapsed along with Germany. These two allies would of course go on to eventually bring the planet to the edge of annihilation. So to counter your point that Germany and the Soviets were never allied because they did not have similar goals nor trust eachother, i say not applicable.

 

[Zakarro]

Allies does not equal "we love eachother" . A perfect example would be the Soviet Union and the US. Did they meet your definition of Allies? Because neither country trusted the other and would have been perfectly happy if the other country collapsed along with Germany. These two allies would of course go on to eventually bring the planet to the edge of annihilation. So to counter your point that Germany and the Soviets were never allied because they did not have similar goals nor trust eachother, i say not applicable.

You are quite mistaken. In the 40s America was not the fascist corporate state is is today. The ignorant cold war you speak of did not happen till a few years after the war starting with the stupid Korean war
Roosevelt was in charge and has very good ideals and was quite amigable with Stalin.
In fact Roosevelt before entering the war to see what was going on sent a diplomat to Germany and various other countrys like, Romania and Yugoslavia, and finally to USSR.
This diplomat met with Stalin and Stalin asked for US help, the response from the diplomat was "but we are capitalists I thought you didnt like us" Stalins response while taking a hit of his pipe was "We do not care, we have a common enemy which is fascism that needs to be destroyed"

The diplomat returned to the US begging the rest of US political leaders to join the war and they gave him xenophobic ignorant remarks aobut the russians. What it took to open their eyes was when imperialist Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, which then got the americans to wake up.

 

[morticore]

Of course Hitler and Stalin, both gentlemen were not Allies, they just created statement about ripping apart central and eastern Europe in incoming conflict, lol....

Third Reich and USSR signed also credit agreement - Soviet Union became main suplier od resources for German industry til 1941. Non-agression treaty gave Stalin possibility to wage war against Japan in 1939. According to this pact Gestapo and NKVD co-operated in fight against Polish resistance and exchanged POWs.

Hiler and Stalin perosnally couldn't stand each other, but they had many common goals that sent them into frienship relations.

 

[Zakarro]

Of course Hitler and Stalin, both gentlemen were not Allies, they just created statement about ripping apart central and eastern Europe in incoming conflict, lol....

Third Reich and USSR signed also credit agreement - Soviet Union became main suplier od resources for German industry til 1941. Non-agression treaty gave Stalin possibility to wage war against Japan in 1939. According to this pact Gestapo and NKVD co-operated in fight against Polish resistance and exchanged POWs.

Hiler and Stalin perosnally couldn't stand each other, but they had many common goals that sent them into frienship relations.

Wow ohh wow, now I understand why Polish are so hatred of Russians with this lie. That USSR was supplying hitler with oil? ROFL



Like I said if they were such great friends then why did Stalin first before any pacts with Nazis were made offer France and Britain and ANTI HITLER PACT? Those idiots refused and he was forced to pact with Germany.


Why do you anti soviets rufuse to acknowledge what I said about the burning of the Reichstag? Or the previously mentioned pact Stalin wanted with France and Britain against Hitler? That is a historical fact. Why do you ignore it?