Tripwire, why did you...

[thefleshpound]

Clearly enough people want these "butchered versions", or else companies would have stopped releasing games in Germany long ago.

Look, it's just wrong what you're saying. People who are really interested in Killing Floor know about the cuts in the German version. They would be able buy it over Steam (German and uncut!) or import it from outside Germany. People buying a CUT version in store usually look at the frontcover first, then read the text at the backcover and finally have a look at how much money it costs. Most of them never get to know that their version was cut-down horribly. The second "retail"-group gets pissed and searches for some bloodpatches. (Only a few games like the "steam-only" ones are difficult to "patch".) You don't even know how many people buy a cut retail-version of a game and then use bloodpatches. You don't know how many people would be pissed if there weren't those patches. Pointless argument.

Second thing: Is it more effective to release a cut-to-death version of a game, accepting the silly German laws and angry gamers. Or would it be better to force people to import a version from outside? With the last mentioned method Tripwire would "act" and not write one or two half-baked sentences about how they dislike the German law in this point...

 

[Yomommassis]

People buying a CUT version in store usually look at the frontcover first, then read the text at the backcover and finally have a look at how much money it costs. Most of them never get to know that their version was cut-down horribly.

If they bought a game in germany then obviously its going to meet the law standard i.e. lowgore
even I know that all games are censored in germany...

Is it more effective to release a cut-to-death version of a game, accepting the silly German laws and angry gamers. Or would it be better to force people to import a version from outside?

NOT releasing a game to an entire country would just be plain stupid, especially when they have the option to snd its a game company like TWI..you cant sit there and tell me forcing the entire population of a country to import their game is an effective form of marketing.

How did you expect the rest of the people of germany to hear about killing floor? word-of-mouth? LOL
Purely ineffective.

 

[Zeron]

I always wondered, why is the porn industry so profound in germany yet the german government doesn't let their people see blood that they could probably see by accidentally cutting themselves with a knife?

Apparently in germany Logic comes second.

 

[Vaecrius]

Apparently in germany Logic comes second.

Heh, I tend to hear the reverse complaint about America far more often.

 

[Zeron]

Heh, I tend to hear the reverse complaint about America far more often.

I'm not saying America isn't stupid either, it's far from perfect. I just don't see the logic behind it.

Hell. America is the reverse of germany. America censors the hell out of sexuality and does nothing about blood and gore in video games. I don't see the logic in that either.

But what am i gonna do about it, you know?

 

[9_6]

Stop bringing logic into this.
You're doing it wrong.
(besides, how the hell does it make "sense" to you that the nation screams over nipples while gratuitous violence is a-okay?
If anything, THAT is a lot sicker, regarding the priorities.)

even I know that all games are censored in germany...

The kicker is, sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. Rating doesn't matter.
Killing floor, a light hearted zombie shooting game is censored while starcraft 2, where marines get ripped in half is not.

NOT releasing a game to an entire country would just be plain stupid, especially when they have the option to snd its a game company like TWI..you cant sit there and tell me forcing the entire population of a country to import their game is an effective form of marketing.

How did you expect the rest of the people of germany to hear about killing floor? word-of-mouth? LOL
Purely ineffective.

I've never seen a killing floor ad or anything before yet here I am, having purchased it before any retail version hit the shelves.
I'm statistical impossibility, given that you seem to know exactly what you're talking about.

 

[Deafmute]

Stop bringing logic into this.
You're doing it wrong.
(besides, how the hell does it make "sense" to you that the nation screams over nipples while gratuitous violence is a-okay?
If anything, THAT is a lot sicker, regarding the priorities.)

He said it doesn't make sense.

 

[9_6]

Then why did he point it out as illogical if the opposite is just as illogical to him?
It has to imply that one method makes "less sense" to him than the other.

Anyway as soon as "morality" comes into play, all logic goes out the window and 90% of people become sheep.
Say, something against the anti-pornographic stance in america and people will automatically go all "eww porn" before listening to anything you say, say something against the censorship of violence in germany and people will automatically be "omg you psychopath" and it's so much more hard work to get your point across.
Aside from the fact that it's also social suicide.

Because people are stupid.
Not 1 person, not 10 people, not 1000 people but a couple million people most definitely are with about 90% being too lazy to think on their own, too comfortable to accept any point of view other than the most popular one.
And that's more than enough to make any change hard as hell.

 

[HaTeMe]

But you dont understand that ppl in Germany could buy the game on steam without censorship back before it was censored.. The censorship was done so they could sell it in German stores.

I'd suggest reading the whole thread and then joining the discussion.

Yes but not everyone has the chance to purchase from steam, due not having a credit card or paypal account for one reason or another.

You know what? Valve Support just deleted my question!

If it was anything similar to your original post here I wouldnt be surprised.

 

[trilance]

Something to do with Germany's history perhaps? It would be worth noting that these laws may be in place due to something with their past...don't you think?

 

[slavek]

Something to do with Germany's history perhaps? It would be worth noting that these laws may be in place due to something with their past...don't you think?

I play violent video games and it doesn't persuade me to go out and kill in the real world. Yet the laws in Germany that censor the games seem to imply that it does. I can understand the censorship of Nazi propaganda and what not due to the past wars and political turmoil but I think the censorship of blood is a bit overboard.

Why don't they censor it so when you get a cut or go into surgery, they put a little black box around it too. Its like the German government over reacts to everything. I heard a while back that they tried to get paintball banned because someone involved in a shooting just happened to play recreational paintball in the past.

Edit: PS Why is the fire censored in KF too? Shame because when zombies take over the world, Germany's gamers will be helpless when they don't realize that fire can be used as a weapon.

 

[Zeron]

Then why did he point it out as illogical if the opposite is just as illogical to him?
It has to imply that one method makes "less sense" to him than the other.

Anyway as soon as "morality" comes into play, all logic goes out the window and 90% of people become sheep.
Say, something against the anti-pornographic stance in america and people will automatically go all "eww porn" before listening to anything you say, say something against the censorship of violence in germany and people will automatically be "omg you psychopath" and it's so much more hard work to get your point across.
Aside from the fact that it's also social suicide.

Because people are stupid.
Not 1 person, not 10 people, not 1000 people but a couple million people most definitely are with about 90% being too lazy to think on their own, too comfortable to accept any point of view other than the most popular one.
And that's more than enough to make any change hard as hell.

You mad bro?

Both make an equal amount of nonsense. Therefore i think we should just slap warning labels on things and say "graphic violence" or "Nudity" and get it over with. If parents, or even regular people know what is in the game before they buy it, it will give them a better judgement call on whether or not they turn into "psychopaths" by playing violent video games.*Laughs Violently*

 

[OHsnapcojax]

...release Killing Floor in Germany? I admire everyone who doenst even think about a German release of his game. There are still developers who don't want their games to get ****ty by censorship. Don't you know the main objective in this game is shooting zombies? And how funny is that when the game is fully censored? You don't even know if you did a headshot or not...And things like that are quite important in KF.

As a member of the old community and a long-time player of KF...I have to guess you're only about the profit. Everything was fine BEFORE it went retail (in Germany). And yes, I was stupid enough to buy a German version, because my mates one was cut in German and uncut in English. Later I read the mentioned statement.

Don't you think German players hate their own laws and how they cut the **** out of games? Everytime a game studio acts like "**** this crap, I'm not gonna release in Germany", we're happy and import it from another country.

By censoring Killing Floor like that, you destroyed it. The German version is not playable if you're used to the other versions. It's not only the fault of the German people that the laws don't change. It's also people like YOU, thinking "Let's cut everything out - 1 or 2 idiots in Germany are going to buy it anyways."

Wellllll, you can't really blame Tripwire for your country's ridiculous ways now can you? It's a business that needs to keep itself alive by profit. Why didn't you just buy an english version from ebay or something?

Like I said, you can't say that TRIPWIRE destroyed it. They're simply following Germany's laws.

 

[Sammers]

What the hell is wrong with you?
Was that called for in any shape or form?
Perhaps it is a necessary move for you to move away from the computer since you obviously are unable to differ between fiction or reality.
Are you one of those ****ing idiots who actually believes that fictional actions, instead of being a healthy outlet for those who *might* have such tendencies, encourage and transfer perfectly to real life actions and thus should be forbidden or are you a troll with the worst kind of taste I have ever seen?
I always thought people with that kind of screwed up logic were people who never touched a game before in their life but thanks for proving me wrong on that.
Seriously.

Ahahahahah. You rage, you lose. I did say it was extreme. I may also have simplified it a little. I also said it didn't work, didn't I?

It's that silly thing known as freedom of speech, you know.

It's not that free. If I told a police officer to "**** off" just because I could, it wouldn't end too well. Government laws have always banned certain "Freedoms" for the collective good of their people. Germany, in this case have done what they think will alter the minds of their target audience, daft as it is.

That was a pretty awful analogy, Sammers. Not going to lie.

While the analogy was awful, the reason stands: Germany banned violent games in order to try and manipulate teens/children or whoever they have aimed this law at. I never claimed that it would work, only speculated their reason behind creating it. And I said If it were to somehow work, why would it be a bad thing?


This is now my favourite thread I think.

 

[9_6]

Ahahahahah. You rage, you lose. I did say it was extreme. I may also have simplified it a little. I also said it didn't work, didn't I?

Stop saying things you "don't mean", then?
Though it is always easy to say that afterwards isn't it.

It's not that free. If I told a police officer to "**** off" just because I could, it wouldn't end too well. Government laws have always banned certain "Freedoms" for the collective good of their people. Germany, in this case have done what they think will alter the minds of their target audience, daft as it is.

You asked for a reason, I gave you a *good* reason that doesn't involve the irrational need just see blood like you implied to be the only reason to want gory games.
What is your point or are you just giving out random lessons on how the world works?
I don't think we need a philosophical discussion about society and how it's basically nothing but trading freedom for security here cause that is completely besides the point.

While the analogy was awful, the reason stands: Germany banned violent games in order to try and manipulate teens/children or whoever they have aimed this law at.

I'm not sure who in this thread needed an explanation for the "reasoning" behind those laws as, frankly, it is quite in your face obvious but thanks for stating it anyway, by somehow also bringing freaking peadophilia into this.
Classy.

But sure, I "lose" because that rubs me in ways I simply do not like. Whatever you say bro.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

It's not that free. If I told a police officer to "**** off" just because I could, it wouldn't end too well.

That's because you're taking the phrase too literally. Freedom of Speech simply refers to opinion. You can't get in trouble for saying that you feel that such-and-such official is running things poorly. Telling a cop to "**** off" isn't an opinion, thus it isn't protected under freedom of speech.

 

[Vaecrius]

If telling a cop to **** off has worse consequences than telling a random stranger on the street the same, then we need to work to make the speech freer.

 

[thefleshpound]

Yes but not everyone has the chance to purchase from steam, due not having a credit card or paypal account for one reason or another.

Well, they added the "PaySafeCard"-option, so it gets alot easier to buy a game. Only thing you need would be internet.


@Topic

As said, there are alot of games censored in Germany, but some aren't. A popular example would be "Dead Space". It's completely uncut, because the USK said the enemies don't look "human". But there are some humans slaughtered during the game. I really don't understand their decision to no cut it...

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

If telling a cop to **** off has worse consequences than telling a random stranger on the street the same, then we need to work to make the speech freer.

It has to do with title. Same reason that you'll get in a LOT more trouble if you were to punch a cop in the face than if you were to punch some random stranger in the face.

 

[Basilisx]

@ thefleshpound
EA tried three times to get Dead Space through the USK. It took the USK a lot of time to decide in every single attempt of EA to get the game trough.
Finally they let it pass, because of the non human looking enemies, as you have mentioned and because the game was clearly advertised as a product for adults.
Cutting DS would also effect the gameplay too much, because strategic dismemberment is THE most important gameplay mechanic in this game.

So the game came uncut.

Nevertheless I can't see the point of cutting games for an adult audience

KF is also a game for adults. Are we as adults not able to handle violence in germany ? Why can I not make this decision on my own? I don't need politicans for this ! and I think the other german members of the KF community don't need them either.

The USK finds always weird reasons to cut games. Even the perspektive (first person, third person) matters.


Sorry if my english is bad, but I'm at work and have not much time at the moment