Tripwire, why did you...

[dextronaut]

Sounds harsh but its my opinion on how things have been handled.

 

[Basilisx]

I wonder how many copies did TW sell of the german retail version anyway.
I'm sceptical that many people bought it, because the censorship takes a lot of fun out of the game.
I've got the uncut edition, but a buddy bought it retail and is not satisfied...espacially after I've showed him the first KF trailer with all the uncut goodness
Nevertheless I've told him to get an UK import, so it's his own fault now.
The point is, you as a customer have a free choice which product you want to buy.
Nobody forces you to buy a cut version. If you decide to choose an "inferior" product you have to assume unsatisfaction.
Maybe it was a good idea for TW to go retail in germany to boost sales, maybe not. Who knows whether it was worth all the work to pack KF on discs ?
Furthermore I don't really understand why germans want to play this game in german.
The game loses its british charme we all love

Long story short:
Stick with the original product if you love it and want satisfaction and don't cry if you get something else.

 

[Old Ranger]

I wonder what would happen if in German Killing Floor game selling is cancelled, and they dont sell it anymore in Germany.

It's also people like YOU, thinking "Let's cut everything out - 1 or 2 idiots in Germany are going to buy it anyways."

I hope that that was not the thing, they think about.

There is one good point in releasing cutted version. You now see exactly what German laws means actually.

I think TWI has made a serve to you, if u take a second thought.

Too bad it has to be KF, but someone has to make sacrafices. TWI made sacrafices to make poor version of KF. Just to show you germans what your laws actually means.

Now you can see, what to complain about German laws.

You can show now it exactly what means to the germans.

If there wasnt a Steam, of any other internet distribution channel. And games would only be getted in CD. In German, if the game in CD was not cutted, you dont get the game at all.

You actually now have to break German Law, if you ever play Full Core Version of KF in Germany. Playing full gore version of KF is criminal in Germany.

I think what really sucks here, is the German law.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

As a member of the old community and a long-time player of KF...I have to guess you're only about the profit.

Oh please. If you were really a long-time player of the Killing Floor, you'd know how much support the game has gotten, and how much of that support was based directly on community feedback. You want a company that's only about the profit? I believe that Mr. Kotick wants to have a word with you.

You're right. But the there are other companies that do not release their games in Germany. Or they do not agree on cutting things out. They say that all the censored stuff would ruin their games. For example Gears of War and Dead Rising (Zombie Game ) -> No German versions. They didn't want their games to be seen like that, censored.

I like how you don't even pause to consider that maybe companies like Capcom and Epic don't consider the amount of profit to be potentially gained from German imports to be worth their time when they can focus more on their next AAA title that will be sold in the American market where the money flows-in. Tripwire is a much smaller company who doesn't launch 2 to 3 titles a year, thus any market they can generate profit from is a good thing for them.

 

[Deafmute]

Oh please. If you were really a long-time player of the Killing Floor, you'd know how much support the game has gotten, and how much of that support was based directly on community feedback. You want a company that's only about the profit? I believe that Mr. Kotick wants to have a word with you.

I like how you don't even pause to consider that maybe companies like Capcom and Epic don't consider the amount of profit to be potentially gained from German imports to be worth their time when they can focus more on their next AAA title that will be sold in the American market where the money flows-in. Tripwire is a much smaller company who doesn't launch 2 to 3 titles a year, thus any market they can generate profit from is a good thing for them.

There it is. :IS2:

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

German people could buy the uncensored game via steam before the release, genius.

So they could put it in stores! They could sell it (uncut) over steam to German customers before! That's the point. Most of my mates bought it around this time and are happy now.

Because every German computer in all of Germany has Steam pre-installed, right? Believe it or not, but there are a lot of PC gamers who don't use Steam. Or, if they do, they only use it long enough to play Steam-required games like Team Fortress or Half Life and ignore the adds that pop-up after playing.

You know, for a while I was scared my version would just turn to crap because lolsteamcanseemyip.
Yeah, stuff like this happens here.

Sorry, could you repeat that? I could barely hear you over the violin that was playing while you were talking. (( Edit: Seriously though, I hate bringing-out the douchy violin retort, but you can't "RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE o btw feal sory 4 me plz" and not expect at least one snarky retort from it. ))

 

[rickyhorror]

Oh please. If you were really a long-time player of the Killing Floor, you'd know how much support the game has gotten, and how much of that support was based directly on community feedback. You want a company that's only about the profit? I believe that Mr. Kotick wants to have a word with you.

I like how you don't even pause to consider that maybe companies like Capcom and Epic don't consider the amount of profit to be potentially gained from German imports to be worth their time when they can focus more on their next AAA title that will be sold in the American market where the money flows-in. Tripwire is a much smaller company who doesn't launch 2 to 3 titles a year, thus any market they can generate profit from is a good thing for them.

Because every German computer in all of Germany has Steam pre-installed, right? Believe it or not, but there are a lot of PC gamers who don't use Steam. Or, if they do, they only use it long enough to play Steam-required games like Team Fortress or Half Life and ignore the adds that pop-up after playing.

Sorry, could you repeat that? I could barely hear you over the violin that was playing while you were talking.

Very well said! +rep

 

[Murphy]

Oh please. If you were really a long-time player of the Killing Floor, you'd know how much support the game has gotten

Exactly, and more importantly, you wouldn't care about the low-gore version because you would have gotten the game before the German shelf-release. I'm totally with you, btw. I hate the German stance on violent games as much as anybody. Just saying.

I like how you don't even pause to consider that maybe companies like Capcom and Epic don't consider the amount of profit to be potentially gained from German imports to be worth their time when they can focus more on their next AAA title that will be sold in the American market where the money flows-in. Tripwire is a much smaller company who doesn't launch 2 to 3 titles a year, thus any market they can generate profit from is a good thing for them.

You could argue Gears of War is still censored in Germany because you can't get the DLC packs there. Or at least not the Dark Corners pack for Gears of War 2. Which pisses me off to no end, because that restriction is so unnecessary, legally. But MS is playing it super-safe and now I can't play online in ranked matches because that requires me to have the packs, and when I play with friends I'm the *** who keeps everyone anchored to the stock maps.
But enough about Gears.

What would happen if you imported a boxed copy of KF from, say, the UK and installed that / registered that with your account. I think with L4D this makes the game uncut, doesn't it? Is it the same with KF?
Because if it is, there is no reason to complain about the German release because you can just act like it never happened and import it like any other game that isn't released in Germany.

 

[Sammers]

Well, they are able to buy a "cut-into-trash"-version of the game. They should experience Killing Floor as it is meant to be. I did a test: I let a mate of mine play both versions. First German then English. He got bored after the German version, but really enjoyed the English one.

If it's just mindless offensive content you want, go play Postal 2. Gore is not the integral selling point of Killing Floor. The german version still holds this selling point; a healthy lesson about teamwork, skill and the gratifying feeling of surviving.
The matter of the game being "trash" is opinion and not everybody will share yours. TWI had no say in this anyway, it's entirely down to Germany. Anyway, if the German players really hate this game, purely due to a lack of gore, that almost entirely justifies these censorships in my book.

And Dead Rising just sucks. Sucks horribly!!!!!

Absolutely die. Dead Rising was ace fun. Understandably though, there was room for improvement. I believe they have taken that into account for Dead Rising 2 though, because that looks 9001 times better in every way. Chainsaw bikes ftw.

 

[9_6]

Gore is not the integral selling point of Killing Floor.

Gore is not the integral selling point of B-movie zombie flicks.

Playing full gore version of KF is criminal in Germany.

Not true.
It's only "illegal" for minors (even though every freaking 14 year old plays games like manhunt anyway so consider this as successful as the concept of DRM) but that doesn't mean this system can't be twisted to ruin certain games for everyone else.

Because every German computer in all of Germany has Steam pre-installed, right? Believe it or not, but there are a lot of PC gamers who don't use Steam. Or, if they do, they only use it long enough to play Steam-required games like Team Fortress or Half Life and ignore the adds that pop-up after playing.

Did you... read what this topic is about at all?

Sorry, could you repeat that? I could barely hear you over the violin that was playing while you were talking. (( Edit: Seriously though, I hate bringing-out the douchy violin retort, but you can't "RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE o btw feal sory 4 me plz" and not expect at least one snarky retort from it. ))

And you can't possibly expect to win friends with comments like this, troll.
If you have no idea about something, consider not contributing your educated opinion instead of looking like a douche, thank you.
Sure is easy to pick on people who have a problem you don't have.

I know you're all trying to "protect tripwire" but the OP actually does have a point, like it or not.

 

[thefleshpound]

If it's just mindless offensive content you want, go play Postal 2.

I do. I also bought the Fudge Pack. RWS are great developers! Well, in fact (since KF is no fun in German) I only play Postal 2 atm.

Gore is not the integral selling point of Killing Floor.

It is one of the major features of KF.

a healthy lesson about teamwork, skill and the gratifying feeling of surviving.

Without gore, you forgot to mention. And this sucks. Don't put this "the game was made for educational reasons"-discussion up.

Anyway, if the German players really hate this game, purely due to a lack of gore, that almost entirely justifies these censorships in my book.

Why?

Cut my arms and cut my legs, but please let me be in Germany!

 

[Sammers]

I do. I also bought the Fudge Pack. RWS are great developers! Well, in fact (since KF is no fun in German) I only play Postal 2 atm.

Then play this if you want gore. Most of us could do without your pointless, directionless ranting.

Without gore, you forgot to mention. And this sucks. Don't put this "the game was made for educational reasons"-discussion up.

Then enlighten me. Why does it suck? And don't put an "It's not realistic" discussion up. This entire game isn't realistic. What exactly is it about a low-gore version that doesn't tickle your fancy?

Why?

With a similar, yet extreme example, take a look at paedophilia. Society tries to cut down on paedophiles, by making child pornography less available to them(making it illegal in other words).
Switch society with Germany, Paedophiles with violent minors and Child pornography with violent games and we get:
Take a look at violent minors. Society tries to cut down on people who like to be violent towards others, by making violent games less of an influence(making them illegal in other words).
Ta da. I'm not saying it's a good idea or that it works, considering how much gamers there like to whine about it, but there's the reason for it. And if they truly crave as much gore as you seem to let on, perhaps it's a neccessary move, so long as it works in the long run.

 

[OFBulletMagnet]

if steam is logging your IP, could you not ipspoof, log into steam and re-download the game from a server outside of germany?

i might be talking bollocks, but it's worth a try ...

 

[9_6]

if steam is logging your IP, could you not ipspoof, log into steam and re-download the game from a server outside of germany?

i might be talking bollocks, but it's worth a try ...

Faking your ip can get you banned.
Besides, the ip only counts upon purchase which concludes to "don't buy stuff, let other people gift it to you".

With a similar, yet extreme example, take a look at paedophilia. Society tries to cut down on paedophiles, by making child pornography less available to them(making it illegal in other words).
Switch society with Germany, Paedophiles with violent minors and Child pornography with violent games and we get:
Take a look at violent minors. Society tries to cut down on people who like to be violent towards others, by making violent games less of an influence(making them illegal in other words).
Ta da. I'm not saying it's a good idea or that it works, considering how much gamers there like to whine about it, but there's the reason for it. And if they truly crave as much gore as you seem to let on, perhaps it's a neccessary move, so long as it works in the long run.

What the hell is wrong with you?
Was that called for in any shape or form?
Perhaps it is a necessary move for you to move away from the computer since you obviously are unable to differ between fiction or reality.
Are you one of those ****ing idiots who actually believes that fictional actions, instead of being a healthy outlet for those who *might* have such tendencies, encourage and transfer perfectly to real life actions and thus should be forbidden or are you a troll with the worst kind of taste I have ever seen?
I always thought people with that kind of screwed up logic were people who never touched a game before in their life but thanks for proving me wrong on that.
Seriously.

Then enlighten me. Why does it suck? And don't put an "It's not realistic" discussion up. This entire game isn't realistic. What exactly is it about a low-gore version that doesn't tickle your fancy?

Paternalism.
Oh no, another reason than the irrational kind of bloodthirst you in your limited imagination expected as an answer, but some people just, you know, like to consume the things the way they're intended to be experienced, in an un-cut, un-edited, un-censored form instead of being stripped of that freedom.
It's that silly thing known as freedom of speech, you know.

Now crawl back under the rock you came from before you make yourself look even worse.
You made some bad posts today. Don't make bad posts.

 

[Deafmute]

That was a pretty awful analogy, Sammers. Not going to lie.

 

[Vaecrius]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of Mr. No Derail For You Soup Nazi like in the other thread I'll just throw out one name that might illustrate where I think Sammers is coming from:

RapeLay.

Go on, try to defend it under your normal handle on a public forum without sounding like a complete arse.



...that said, I can't help but think, to paraphrase the pastor when he caught us at Sunday school talking about Doom, isn't it the same killing act whether or not it's a blood splatter... but then, if most people saw it that way I suppose we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Did you... read what this topic is about at all?

Did you read what this topic was about? Maybe you stumbled into the wrong topic by mistake. See, the question at hand is "Why did Tripwire release a German version of the game". The reply came "So that German people can buy Killing Floor", to which you and thefleshpound replied by saying they could already buy it via Steam before the German release. My retort to that was that not everyone has Steam. Whether or not you can fathom this, but many people will not buy a game unless it's sitting on the store shelf for them to buy a physical copy. And by "many", I mean "more people than those who use Steam or other digital distribution services". That majority group is the group of people who could not buy Killing Floor before the German version was released.

And you can't possibly expect to win friends with comments like this, troll.
If you have no idea about something, consider not contributing your educated opinion instead of looking like a douche, thank you.
Sure is easy to pick on people who have a problem you don't have.

Aww, how cute. He's resorting to name-calling. That's just precious. Also, thanks for the quick lesson in friend-making, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm trying to troll someone into a friendship. ;P

I know you're all trying to "protect tripwire" but the OP actually does have a point, like it or not.

Does he? His post looks more like he's whining about German law than anything that Tripwire can fix. We can agree with you day-in and day-out that it sucks that Germany has those laws, but at the end of the day the only real solution is to move to another country (or to try and have the law changed, but fat chance on that one). So while the OP might have a point about German law... what do you want us to do about it?

 

[9_6]

Does he? His post looks more like he's whining about German law than anything that Tripwire can fix. We can agree with you day-in and day-out that it sucks that Germany has those laws, but at the end of the day the only real solution is to move to another country (or to try and have the law changed, but fat chance on that one). So while the OP might have a point about German law... what do you want us to do about it?

For everyone too dense to comprehend this even after it has been said numerous times: His point was that, just because a cut version exists, it is no longer possible to purchase the uncut one neither via steam nor retail. Not without detours.
That. Is. All.

As for what can be done at this point: Nothing at all.
The "damage has been done", so to say.
This thread, so far, has been solely about explaining the above mentioned point to people who do not understand it and just now did you finally, or more like "accidentally" take note that nothing can be done about it.

But maybe this is a sign for tripwire to take note of the consequences that putting their game on the store shelves in countries with screwed up laws at any cost has and maybe they'll handle future occasions of that differently.
Maybe you missed the part in his post where he suggest that not publishing it at all is an option too.
An option way more gamer-friendly then releasing a butchered version no one really wants to have, go figure.
That is the purpose of this thread.

And with that notion, there is nothing really left to discuss unless someone else wants to (can we say deliberately?) misunderstand or just provoke people like that lovely person in the quote box.
We've had finer moments than this here thread. I am disappoint.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

For everyone too dense to comprehend this even after it has been said numerous times: His point was that, just because a cut version exists, it is no longer possible to purchase the uncut one neither via steam nor retail. Not without detours.
That. Is. All.

Yes, we're aware of that. If having the graphic violence is so important to him, then he should be willing to jump through these detours. Making an inflammatory post accusing a company of being "just about profit" doesn't really solve anything though. If he wants to look for help on what hoops he needs to jump through and how to jump through them, then he can just make a post asking that rather than writing-up a 3-paragraph rant about Tripwire "broke his game".

An option way more gamer-friendly then releasing a butchered version no one really wants to have, go figure.

Clearly enough people want these "butchered versions", or else companies would have stopped releasing games in Germany long ago. But in any case, I can agree. Beyond arguing the merits vs flaws of releasing a game in Germany, there isn't really much else to discuss here. I'd advise that the OP make a new topic looking for advice/help on how to get the graphic violence back, as this topic has since gotten so far derailed that there isn't much point trying to get it back on course.

If there's discussion on the matter going on still, I'll maybe post my thoughts about the German version tomorrow, but I'm too tired to really gather my thoughts right now. Otherwise if the topic goes dead, then I'll just leave it be.

 

[Deleted member 24443]

Buy UK retail version, make a photo of both keys and consult steam support for switching german with UK KF key. Usually works if you are behaving the right way. And it worked for me.

€ Appearantly there's enough people here who do not know how to get non-butchered versions in the first place. It's not completely forbidden to sell those here, if those games are indexed you are not allowed to officially sale them or make advertise for them, meaning you can sell them unofficially which many smaller companies do. Best thing, shout "It's out! Import now!!!" and let them handle the rest.
But it is pretty much depending on its USK / FSK rating / indexed rating. There's quite a lot of differences.