Whitelisting Procedure

From my perspective, whitelisting shouldn't be a part of a patch.
There is too much time between patches.
I think whitelisting should be independent from patches(like a minipatches, containing new whitelisted material).

TrueLolzor said:

From my perspective, whitelisting shouldn't be a part of a patch.
There is too much time between patches.
I think whitelisting should be independent from patches(like a minipatches, containing new whitelisted material).

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IIRC it isn't done with patches. You've got to remember that TWI isn't under any obligation to do this. They brought the whitelist in response to people grinding levels with maps designed to do as much. It was to fix an exploit. They've then constantly updated it over the years as people submitted maps and mods.

TWI are not a big team and have had a lot on their plates lately. Just exercise a little patience. And to be honest, the people that are likely to play your map are those that got perks to level 6 long ago. So there is only going to be a small player base that are concerned with whitelisting.

yeah i gave up on whitelisting any of my maps, just because there were so many hoops to jump through each time i resubmitted, and so long in between responses.
so then in a fit of rage i decided to make a big "eff you" to the whitelist and let people instantly level up on some of my servers, which kind of exploded in my face and really put my group in a bad light on these forums (i'm sure nobody remembers it now though).
so yeah, i feel your pain, but i think its going to be quite a while for them to fix up the process, considering how much work they have to do to fix ro2.
i've been helping gunslingor with his map, but i know for a fact it's probably going to be MONTHS for it to be whitelisted, due to all the custom coded stuff i made for it (fx, triggered anims, deco, custom movers, etc.) and since i have to fix the code a lot, its going to be a while to even submit, let alone having them look through the source files, and even deciding if it should be whitelisted.

I totally agree with you

Gartley said:

the people that are likely to play your map are those that got perks to level 6 long ago. So there is only going to be a small player base that are concerned with whitelisting.

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yeah but it makes mapper (like me) feels his maps was a waste of time making them when people doesn't add them in the servers because they aren't whitelisted

I see where you are coming from, in my experience it's always been very hard for mappers to get maps onto a server's map cycle. Player's either want what they know for easy to farm maps. ie the Doom map. Not just limited to KF either. Same went for CS and Q maps.

Need new maps period, its been way too long.

While its understandable that they are occupied, some of the maps get repetitive after a while, and I LOVE seeing new works from some of you on here. *Cough* Fel, Shinobi, Robot, Kicker, *And some others I'm missing*.

I run a pure WLed server, and only maps I host on there are ones that allow perk progression to work. At the same time, I'm dying to try out some of the new maps being created, its not fair that the wait for the update be so far apart then when the map's already past the beta stage, even with help from the community.

It'd be better if at least the whitelist was stored remotely, so rather than updating the game they could just update the whitelist database. Would certainly save some time and effort in the long run.

I recall a time when there were members of the community with high standing that formed a group who's purpose was to test for white listing...was that my imagination?

So just to clarify something before I shoot my mouth off.

White list - permits perk progression
Grey list - allows you to use your perks but no progression
No list - none of the above

Is that right?

May I make a counter-suggestion? Have all maps automatically GREYlisted by default, and then do whitelisting on a case by case basis, because it seems to me that what you're suggesting would require an inordinate amount of effort on TWI. Given how informal the whole whitelisting process seems to be why not let forum admins and trusted members like Candlejack, Timur, Jester be able to recommend specific maps for whitelisting, and with their blessing be moved to the front of the line for whitelisting. At least, that's my idea. Thoughts?

P.S. Oh and what they said about mini-patches for whitelisting instead of waiting for regular patches

composite said:

So just to clarify something before I shoot my mouth off.

White list - permits perk progression
Grey list - allows you to use your perks but no progression
No list - none of the above

Is that right?

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Absolutely correct

What's the sense in no list?

n87 said:

What's the sense in no list?

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agreed, it's not like you can level anyway

Yoshiro said:

How testing for the list is handled now is in house with our own QA team, as the fans who were helping us have had their time taken up with school/work and moved on mostly. There are a few still helping, but not like there once was. Sadly our QA team is very busy working on multiple things at any given time, but I get KF whitelisting sloted in where I can.

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Thats not entirely true. Just before the recent update I agreed to help you guys, I tested ALL maps requested for whitelisting and included screenshots on the problematic areas (unlike your QA team). Then, it took like 8 months until you finally updated and didnt actually even use my collected information. Wasted hours of time, and all that beetween work and freetime.

So... I kinda gave up about it.

And to reply on this topic, I do agree that whitelisting should happen more often (like once a month at least). However, whitelisting maps automatically after a certain time is a bad idea because you only need one person to find out about an exploit and within a week everyone knows about it. One person does it on a 6 man server, the 5 others learn it and do it on other servers... etc etc. I dont care for the fast leveling issues but I absolutely hate it when people do that when Im playing because it kills all challenge and fun.

HaTeMe said:

about it. One person does it on a 6 man server, the 5 others learn it and do it on other servers... etc etc. I dont care for the fast leveling issues but I absolutely hate it when people do that when Im playing because it kills all challenge and fun.

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I noticed this happen, had a few whitelisted maps on my server and SOMEHOW one guy found an obscure exploit. When I logged in to play/spectate, All of the players were camping in said exploit and trying to vote the same map over and over to just camp in that one spot to level up. I had to talk to them as admin to get them out. I leave, and come back in spectator 30min later they are back in there. Ended up having to remove map from rotation. I think maps should still be combed well for exploits(Obviously its hard to get them all) but the auto whitelist may harm us in the long run.

In my opinion there just needs to be better communication between the mapping community and tripwire. If we can find a way to speed up the whitelisting process by being able to communicate with testers to help test for exploits, learn exploit info from Q&A so we can fix them before the next update(as opposed to waiting in the dark until the results show up), or recruiting more people like the old Killing Floor Exploit Prevention Team to help test for exploits to take some pressure off the Q&A.

However if something like the Exploit Prevention Team was set up again on a regular basis, I don't think it should it should decide whether a map should be whitelisted or not. Instead I think it should be a 'tool' to directly assist mappers in looking for exploits BEFORE[submission] and continued help after the map gets submitted.

Another thing I'd like to bring up is that the Level Design section can be a total labyrinth when it comes to specific map threads and also many duplicates. It makes keeping information up to date more difficult than it should be. Take a look at this Website ; Clean, organized and easy to use.

This should be an example of how we should be organized. What would useful is a sort of official blog or website like this one(TWI or community run) that would be officially(Sponsored,moderated, or recommended by TWI) used by the mapper community as a whole(or majority). Every map could have its own dedicated thread in which information could pass freely from the mapper and the testers to help iron out exploits and offer positive critique(No "This map sucks" or "Its too easy"; vague information like this is not helpful to the mapper, tell them 'WHY'.) If it would help, any post results could be sent to a mapper's email to help keep them up do date (Optional)

Obviously not every mapper will know about this but they will all have to come here to these forums to submit their map and therefore will be exposed to any new guidelines or tools created. However we do need something more streamlined and at least to me, better communication with TWI.


Edit: Spelling errors.

This reminds me that KF-EscapeToHeaven is still whitelisted and I get perk progression while playing it solo.

WHY!? That map is so grossly exploitable because the ZEDs always only ever come from the parking garage and there's also an intentionally blocked ZED spawn inside the one and only trader room. You have a long hallway with a narrow entrance that always causes ZEDs to get piled up at the end of it, with a trader room right there behind you, which ZEDs also get trapped inside. You can even shoot through the door and kill the ZEDs trapped there, and 90% of the time a Fleshpound will spawn in there at the start of a pound wave.

Please remove this map from the whitelist. It breaks every single category you listed, Yoshiro, except for the free weapons.

I move that the "no list" go away. Just leave grey and white that way even if its exploitable you cant level cause its grey anyway.

composite said:

So just to clarify something before I shoot my mouth off.

White list - permits perk progression
Grey list - allows you to use your perks but no progression
No list - none of the above

Is that right?

Click to expand...

n87 said:

What's the sense in no list?

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RuneHarle said:

I move that the "no list" go away. Just leave grey and white that way even if its exploitable you cant level cause its grey anyway.

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what the heck?
there is no such thing called no list for the maps! some maps doesn't allow to have perks because they're using custom (.u) files in these maps which that goes to mutator whitelisting problem!

So basically this for maps:

White list - permits perk progression
Grey list - allows you to use your perks but no progression
AND THATS IT.

as for mutators:
(which they would effect on the maps if they're used)

White list - permits perk progression - (only in white list maps, otherwise it will be like grey list)
Grey list - allows you to use your perks but no progression - (could effects on white list maps if its used by not leveling)
Black list (Non-white list) - none of the above - (it will disable perks on white/grey list maps)

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=37067