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The Definitive Zoom Thread (Illustrated)

Well, I don't want zoom to go. I wanted to discuss what zoom does to a game by laying out the up- and the downsides. See how it can be improved.

From the conclusions you and Zets and others have drawn in this thread, it would illogical to keep zoom in game, as it would be very detrimental to immersion and ruin some maps. As you have said, the possible positive points it may bring is outweighed by the negative ones it also brings. Again not hard to infer.

But I agree, the whole dismissing your opinion as a joke thing is a bit much.
 
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Zoom brings some strong positives and some strong negatives. I wouldn't outright say remove zoom, it simply won't happen and many people like it. I haven't said its illogical to keep zoom, I just stated the postives and negatives, where for me the negatives at the moment weight heavier than the positives. For many others it could easily be the other way around.
However since zoom is probably here to stay I do think there is a lot of room for improvement, and I think the negatives should be carefully looked into to minimize the negative effects of zoom perhaps through other systems, while maximizing the positive.

Which was why I wrote:
So in short, my zoom wish list (if zoom stays):
- Ability to control zoom any time anywhere.
- Limiting the max zoom ceiling
- Same max zoom regardless of weapon or character state
- More general visibility in maps (less fog, blur etc like the visibility that can be seen in the red assault or bridges custom maps).

Would i prefer it without any zoom then the answer is yes. However that does not take away that I think that if zoom stays there that there are many points that can make my issues with zoom less severe, and generate an overall nicer experience for all.
 
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Great post OP.
I've loved the zoom since day one and disagree with all the gripes against it.

I WOULD enjoy an increase in the time it takes to get sight-picture but TW has tested it quite a bit and found the current iron-sight set-up to be the most fun.

If they removed the zoom from RO2 I think I'd stop playing. That's actually the reason I hate Classic. The gameplay suffers without zoom.
 
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54345922_48b903ad3c.jpg


i decided to make this not because i care that much about zoom, but simply because so many people seem to completely misunderstand the concept and be so entirely misinformed on the topic.

Put simply, it's not zooming in: Your normal view is zoomed out. The standard 70-90 degree view in fps is zoomed out to about 30-50% of real life distance vision. It's exactly like the mirror on a car, "objects in mirror are closer than they appear"; everything that looks 50 yards away by default in an fps is more like 17-25 yards away, because the view as been distorted to give you wide peripheral vision in a tiny viewing space.

In real life you have a 180 degree field of view; you can't see things in the corner of your eye with complete detail, but if you're paying attention, you will notice important things like a person waving at you or a car coming at you. In order to provide true-to-scale 180 degree view in a game at 100% scale, your display setup would have to look like this:

1-s2.0-s0097849308001477-gr1.jpg


think about it. Is your screen even half that size? hell no. So of course the standard 90 degree view in fps is not remotely close to true scale.

computer+posture+-+good+2.jpg


30_degrees_with_label_1.jpg


the 90 degree view is a compromise - you get half the peripheral vision of real life, and (optimistically) half the distance vision, without the major fish eye distortion which results from compressing 180 degrees into a standard-sized display. I certainly wouldn't want to play without it. That being said, the distance vision is a joke compared to real life. A field of view around 30-45 degrees is far more accurate to human eye distance vision, but it's like playing with blinders on.

This is why games have begun to integrate a universal zoom option separate from scopes, binoculars, and other optics, because it allows you to use real life distance vision whenever you want. Yes, maybe it could use some animated blur effects around the edges in a vague attempt to simulate the effect of your eyes focusing, and to make it look less robotic... But that's cosmetic.

To address those that complain that shooting at long distance in "realism" mode is too easy: Blame the shooting mechanics, not the truescale vision. Far too many people on this forum would rather introduce or retain totally unrealistic elements in order to bandage major flaws in other mechanics.

In my thread on cqb mechanics, everyone wanted to retain a gimpy hip shooting mode just to cover up the fact that attaining a perfectly-aligned sight picture is too fast in ro. No one bothered to think that maybe sight alignment should be a gradual process, in which getting the sights to your eye is quick, but perfectly aligning them is gradual and takes a second or two.

This is essentially the same thing; people would rather remove true-to-scale distance vision from the game than address the fact that rifle recoil is too low, perfect sight alignment happens too quickly, sway is a bit too low (though it shouldn't be nearly as high as ro1), etc. Keep your **** straight people. Don't mix, match, and confuse your problems. And for christ's sake, get over ro1; it was good for its time and was a step in the right direction for military shooters, but it had a ton of awful flaws, and if you use it as your definitive model for the way everything should be in a military shooter, you're going to have one extremely warped and inaccurate idea of realism.

Stop polluting threads focused on other topics with your ill-supported and misinformed whining about zoom. From a realistic perspective, if anything the zoom feature should be expanded. You shouldn't ever be forced to zoom (i.e. When using iron sights) but you should always have the option to zoom via a key, whether your weapon is at the shoulder, at the hip, whether you're standing still, walking, or running. For those who want to continue automatically zooming during is, a simple "is starting zoom" field could be added to the preferences menu.

For those who want to continue playing their automobile-side-mirror simulator, you can take the side mirror off your own car and shove it up your own ***.

amazing post

+1
 
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Little do you know, in this community, illogical and ill-supported holdover elements from RO1 constitute "factual" improvements, while everything else is just opinion.


Nostalgia and poor logical thought process make for some bad suggestions, and people seem to be unwilling to accept that some elements of Ostfront were just simply terrible. There's a reason why a significant number of the suggestion here merely state "make x more like RO1, bring back x from RO1" not "make x more realistic, or improve x, change x this is why you should"

But I suppose if you consider Ostfront mechanics to be the pinnacle of FPS gaming then this point is moot.
 
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We could have a system where people are allowed to zoom whenevery they want, that would mean that probably everybody is running arround with full zoom all the time, and that would mean that it would be the same like "no zoom" :D only with less FoV.

Believe me, if you think all people are going to constantly run around at full zoom and 1) be disoriented because of the tunnel vision and 2) loose the situational awareness a wider FOV gives you, you're crazy :p

My personal choice has always been zoom only when we choose (only on shift+zoom and no auto iron sight zoom)
 
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Believe me, if you think all people are going to constantly run around at full zoom and 1) be disoriented because of the tunnel vision and 2) loose the situational awareness a wider FOV gives you, you're crazy :p

My personal choice has always been zoom only when we choose (only on shift+zoom and no auto iron sight zoom)

So, basically, zoomed-in all the way, but you depend on people getting sick/dizzy to make it so it's not used 100% of the time. I don't think that's a healthy gameplay mechanism;) Imagine all the awful dillema's players will be in:
"Should I zoom in while sprinting to try and spot my enemies sitting over there (who can see me just fine with their fancy zoom)? But it will make me disorientated as hell."
I think this is the reason TWI didn't go for zoom all the time.

I for one am ready to make the leap to no-zoom gameplay. It will be like coming back home.
 
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Why do you think people should be discouraged from using zoom 100% of the time? A 30 degree FOV provides the distance vision you have in real life 100% of the time. If it doesn't bother them, or they don't need to see in their periphery, then people should feel free to use real life distance vision all the time. The only unrealistic part of walking around with zoom on is, your peripheral vision is equivalent to this:

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If a 1:1 FOV simulation of running around with a diving helmet on is considered an unfair advantage, then the community is really far gone. That girl has the same distance vision and FOV that anyone in-game would have with zoom on. She does not have an unfair sniping advantage IRL, and in a game's properly-implemented zoom system, neither do you.

As bad as the diving helmet looks, it's not that much different than wearing a paintball mask or gas mask (soldiers are still trained in shooting with gas masks today in case the enemy uses chemical weapons). Basically, think of walking with zoom on all the time in-game as a 1:1 simulation of wearing a paintball mask.

It might be awkward, but it's better than trying shoot with the default FOV, which is a 1:1 simulation of this:

images


or this:
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EDIT: Just for reference flight helmets like this and this have a 40 degree wide FOV.
 
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Well, Gnam, we can keep going over this till the end of times, but I don't see the point. Our opinions just differ. (Note I share your opinion on many other points besides zoom).
You (and other like-minded) find bigger object sizes the most important thing, while I (and other like-minded) find the side effects to achieve that too grave for it to be worth it.
Our different opinions shall meet each other when huge screens are available and zoom is no longer necessary for bigger object sizes:)
And please do us both a favor and don't answer with 'What side effects?';)
 
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