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The Definitive Zoom Thread (Illustrated)

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#41
Zetsumei said:
Are you sure it got no zoom, as in no ironsight zoom either. Because classic mode removes the shift zoom, but it retains the ironsight zoom of 2x for rifles for instance.

Edit, just joined and its on regular settings aka it got both shift zoom and ironsight zoom :eek:
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ahhhh.... i guess they use classic. it does have IS zoom. NO shift zoom.
64.94.238.123:7777
 
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#42
I don't find that without Shift zoom, it eliminates the ability to spot and hit enemies at the longest line of sight available in the current crop of maps. It makes it slightly harder, but you can still easily pick off stationary targets at close to 300m with a rifle. So, I disagree that it moves the battle up and makes the maps feel smaller, in fact I think it's the opposite, it makes the maps feel bigger as there is now more ability to move. It's harder to pick off a moving target without zoom giving the stationary defenders slightly less of an advantage over the moving (and previously zoomless) attackers. It allows for more varied gameplay, you can actually make it from cover to cover if you're careful.

I'd welcome a completely zoomless server, I agree that even in Classic, the uneven IS zoom creates some silly situations. MG = sniper for one.

And getting rid of the range notification would help with making the maps feel larger as well.
 
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#45
The main problem with the arguement that removing distance vision is ok, because it artificially enlarges the maps and everyone is affected equally, is that other distances factors, like ballistics, aren't affected to scale.

This is why people ***** about SMG's being too accurate. Shots that appear 200-300 meters in-game are actually just 50-100 meters and not subject to the same bullet drop, velocity, or wind factors which would severely limit SMG fire at those distances. Essentially, the distances you could see with the naked eye and hit with a rifle much more accurately are marginalized if not entirely removed from the game. Essentially in a 90 FOV-only game, an SMG becomes an assault rifle, particularly without modern body armor or rifle ammunition to account for.

Really the only reason there isn't more *****ing about SMG's right now is cause the damage gap between SMG's and Rifles is grossly exagerated, and so is PPSH recoil.
 
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#47
SMG's IRL don't have more sway...sure the MP40 wire stock is probably not as good, but the weapon is also lighter, shorter, more easily balanced, with less longterm fatigue from keeping the weapon shouldered.

Like I said already, unless you artificially make SMG's much less damaging or accurate, rifles get an artificial nerf from 90 degree FOV because the distances where rifles win out get removed from the game. Pretty soon you've got SMG bullets curving and conefiring at 100 meters to compensate and things get pretty warped.

All that just to avoid the cosmetic "zoom" effect of switching on distance vision? ...which is pretty moot considering the game also has a HUD, map screen, text messages, names floating over peoples heads, and many other cosmetic unrealisms which somehow no one complains about.
 
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#49
I would like to say, realistic features do not make inevitably the game feel more realistic.

Zoom was a great idea, but unfortunately it makes the game unfair and "strange" (because of the zooming effect itself, IRL you can't switch between two depth of view)

Oh, and, Am I the only that can't stand anymore the "zoom effect" when running? It's really really ... really boring.



Kleist said:
That
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#53
Korn-Y said:
I have, since the BETA, more than 90 FOV. (I can't play with less than 90, :p)
Zoom is still here.
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Wait, we are talking about the 'warp-drive, zoom-out' effect when sprinting, right? That goes away by setting the FOV high enough (might be you need more than 85 FoV for your aspect ratio). Actual zooming in IS and with shift does ofcourse not go away.
 
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#54
Proud_God said:
Wait, we are talking about the 'warp-drive, zoom-out' effect when sprinting, right? That goes away by setting the FOV high enough (might be you need more than 85 FoV for your aspect ratio). Actual zooming in IS and with shift does ofcourse not go away.
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Yes, I am talking about the "Zoom-out effect" when sprinting. Not the Zoom in in Iron Sight, ofc ;p

Anyway, maybe it's because of my monitor or something...
 
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#58
GnaM said:
Put simply, it's not zooming in: your normal view is zoomed out.
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and when everyone is zoomed out 90% of the time - especially when they are establishing their position & the fact that people are in vastly different visual perspectives of the same thing at - the repercussion is that the particular gameplay feature we are discussing actually functions as zooming in. Really, we're splitting hairs on whether we are technically "zooming in" or "unzooming out".

I'm not commenting on the realism of the zoom system, but the consequences it has to the gameplay are set in stone like Newtonian physics. Whether it's a sniper scope, a futuristic combat helm with display, or a gameplay feature designed to mitigate the limitations imposed by a monitor in comparison to the peripherial functionality of a real human eye - The fact is, they will all have the same effect on gameplay - Newton's 4th law of zoom.

But, I know you are all dying to know, my personal opinion is - Darkest Hour nailed it. A little bit of zoom upon iron sights, no shift zoom. Ro2 classic mode does a really great job too - while I respect the intentions of having different zoom for different weapons, I'd prefer it to be set at a standard.
 
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#60
GRIZZLY said:
I'm not commenting on the realism of the zoom system, but the consequences it has to the gameplay are set in stone like Newtonian physics.
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What consequences? If they were so set in stone, surely you'd be able to specify them, which you didn't.

For one, it's not like it devalues the sniper class, since scopes' magnification power should be based on the distance FOV, not the peripheral FOV. In other words, a 6x scope with magnification based on a 90 degree fov would yield a 15 degree fov...which would only be twice the magnification of your distance vision fov (30). Thus, a 6x scope should yield an fov of 5, or else it's only giving you twice the power of your zoom view, simulating a 2x scope. I'm not sure what RO2's scope magnifications are based on, but that's a potential issue.

For another, if distance fov were properly implemented, there would be key gameplay differences from a scope - distance vision should be instantaneous, rather than forcing you to stand still and hold a key. A scope lense and scope tube shouldn't be rendered around the screen to further block your peripherals. Really rather than being switched on and off by holding a key, your fov should be adjustable incrementally via the mousewheel - turn it from 90 to 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, up and down wherever you want it at any time, and leave it there while you run around and do your thing.

If everyone can zoom, it can't be called unfair. If you die because you were zoomed in too far to see someone flanking you, or because you chose not to zoom, it's your own dumb fault.

Lastly, there are gameplay disadvantages to a fixed fov as well - SMG's are upgraded to Assault Rifle status since no one can spot targets past their maximum range. Hence, people complain about how easy it is to snipe with SMG's at 200-300 meters when the actual distance is only 50-100, and since there are few viable ranges where rifles actually beat them out, SMG's get artificially nerfed in damage and recoil in a weak attempt to compensate.
 
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