Tank crew: loader... what if he dies?

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MagicSnake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 28, 2011
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The gun loader position in a tank is taken by the AI for obvious reasons. But what if he dies? How will reload be handled?

And what if he's the only crew member left: will the player be able to take command of him, move him to the driver's seat and attempt to retreat? (since tanks can be resuplied with fresh crew members at dedicated supply zones) Or will the tank be counted amongst the dead?

EDIT:
Ramm-Jaeger said:
If a human dies in a tank in countdown (surely no crew resupply in Countdown, but that's not the issue) they will take over the position of one of the living AI as long as that AI is manning a playable position
(http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=619046&postcount=20)
My personal comments in green
Highlights in orange

2nd EDIT:
Oh! I found something...
Wilsonam said:
If you are solo-tanking and the body in the position you are sitting in gets splattered, you hot-switch to a live AI position in the same tank. We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.
(http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=668813&postcount=22)

So it's not being overlooked; nice to know :)
 
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MagicSnake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 28, 2011
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I think Ramm said you would have to return to a resupply point to get a new AI crew member but don't quote me :IS2:
That is very true!
Self-quote:
MagicSnake said:
tanks can be resuplied with fresh crew members at dedicated supply zones
Or so I heard/read in a few places and interview, though I won't bother to quote. (EDIT: did in OP)

But that's beside the point.

All other roles except the loader can be taken over by the player. So if the AI driver dies, no problem (though that is a problem... but w/e): any other player in the tank can take his seat (his in-game avatar actually moves to the now-empty seat, in first person, with animations and all... pretty nifty).

But AFAIK the loader is AI exclusive...
So, unless when he dies a player can take his seat or order another AI crewman (say, the MG gunner) to take his place, in a tank fight you're pretty screwed. Kind of wasteful to have to retreat a fully functionnal tank out of a battle because the loader got killed by a bullet from an AT rifle and no one can take his place.
 
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Mauser98k

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 16, 2006
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Kind of wasteful to have to retreat a fully functionnal tank out of a battle because the loader got killed by a bullet from an AT rifle and no one can take his place.

It's logical, not wasteful. You might as well save a fully functional tank than try to last in combat any longer with a crippled crew.
 
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SheepDip

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Nov 21, 2005
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Kind of wasteful to have to retreat a fully functionnal tank out of a battle because the loader got killed by a bullet from an AT rifle and no one can take his place.

Getting a new loader is not the only option. A member of the crew (the gunner iirc) will load the weapon, but the reload time will obviously be increased.
 
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MagicSnake

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Jan 28, 2011
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Getting a new loader is not the only option. A member of the crew (the gunner iirc) will load the weapon, but the reload time will obviously be increased.
That would be the best solution IMO. I hope it turns out that way!

*iirc as in "if I recall"? :D If your memory serves you right then that is good news!
If not, then I guess that's the kind of thing we'll have to wait and see when the game ships...
 

NoxNoctum

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Jun 15, 2007
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Getting a new loader is not the only option. A member of the crew (the gunner iirc) will load the weapon, but the reload time will obviously be increased.
Source?

(obviously in RL they could do this but I'm wondering about the game)
 

SheepDip

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Nov 21, 2005
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I forget, I just went trawling through a bunch of threads (I thought it was in the Igromir one) and can't see owt.

Though if the loader can be killed - I can't see it being implemented any other way.
 

Colt .45 killer

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May 19, 2006
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Getting a new loader is not the only option. A member of the crew (the gunner iirc) will load the weapon, but the reload time will obviously be increased.


I keep hearing this one, but have you watched the videos from the inside of the pz4? the loader and gunner are on opposite sides of the tank, it would probably be impossible for the gunner to reach over and grab a round to put into the gun.
 

RiccardoTheBeAst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
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I quote myself:

For the loader part i think that this is a possible solution:

-You are the only crewman survived into the tank.
-You switch to gunner position.
-Aim and....fire!
-Now the gun is empty and needs reload.
-If you reload (i dunno if its "R" or "Right-mouse clic" or automatic -i hope not- or so....i never tried the game :D) you will automatically switch to the loader position, then your PG will automatically reload (and you will see the animation of yourself reloading) and then switch back to gunner position (or maybe during the reload you will see a menu that allow you to choose in which position your PG will move after finished reloading).

Practically auto-switch to loader and auto loading. When you reload a rifle you simply press "R" and then the animation is automatic. Why not for tanks?

This +

I think Ramm said you would have to return to a resupply point to get a new AI crew member but don't quote me :IS2:

It's perfect IHMO :D
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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I keep hearing this one, but have you watched the videos from the inside of the pz4? the loader and gunner are on opposite sides of the tank, it would probably be impossible for the gunner to reach over and grab a round to put into the gun.

I would assume the gunner would simply stand up and move to that side of the turret, load, and move back. It'll take a lot longer than with a living dedicated loader.
 

CCCP

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Jan 27, 2006
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There will be extra animation for gunner I'm sure and this will slow you and give you less time to aim. Plus this explain Ramm sick logic of shooting loader just to make gunner on opposing tank suffer :)
 

Nylle

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 31, 2011
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This game is suppose to be realistic, right? So if the loader is killed you can't load the gun before you get to that supply-place-thingy and get a new loader. It might seem unfair, but I ges you have to take it like if your gun would be destroyed. And if you want to do annything about it someone would have to sit at the loaders place and play that "loading mini game".
Frankly, I would really like to play as a loader, that loading "mini game" would jut be fun! That is how much I love this game.
I say, why not give the players the option to play as a loader, if they don't want to then the NPC will just take over like anny other position.
Hope my voice will be heard and considered. Manny thanks! =)
 

Mormegil

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Nov 21, 2005
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This game is suppose to be realistic, right? So if the loader is killed you can't load the gun before you get to that supply-place-thingy and get a new loader. It might seem unfair, but I ges you have to take it like if your gun would be destroyed.

I think TWI also considers it realistic that if the loader gets killed, somebody else in the tank can load. It'll take longer, but I dont' see why it's physically impossible for the gunner to squeeze in and reload the breach, and go back to his seat.


That's like saying if an MGer infantry gets killed, that MG can no longer be used. Of course somebody else can and will grab it if given a chance, and use it.
 
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SheepDip

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This game is suppose to be realistic, right? So if the loader is killed you can't load the gun before you get to that supply-place-thingy and get a new loader. It might seem unfair, but I ges you have to take it like if your gun would be destroyed.

So what you're suggesting is that in reality if a loader dies during an action - the rest of the tank crew phoned it in and didnt participate in combat further :confused::)?
 
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DiedTrying

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This game is suppose to be realistic, right? So if the loader is killed you can't load the gun before you get to that supply-place-thingy and get a new loader. It might seem unfair, but I ges you have to take it like if your gun would be destroyed. And if you want to do annything about it someone would have to sit at the loaders place and play that "loading mini game".
Frankly, I would really like to play as a loader, that loading "mini game" would jut be fun! That is how much I love this game.
I say, why not give the players the option to play as a loader, if they don't want to then the NPC will just take over like anny other position.
Hope my voice will be heard and considered. Manny thanks! =)

1. Going to "that supply-place-thingy" and instantly getting a fresh loader isn't realistic
2. Tankers are trained in all aspects of their tank, if someone is hurt someone else can fill in. It wasn't uncommon for loaders to die in WW2, and the tankers didn't abandon their tank or go to a resupply thingy, they took the extra time to reload the shells or had the hull MGer load.
3. Mini games are not fun, not even sure how you would implement shell loading that would make it any fun or realistic in any way.
 
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