Suppression effects in HOS?
- Thread starter Galslacht
- Start date
There are different ways to add suppression as discussed in the pros and cons. Most are good and make sense, but are not liked by all. I can say that some suggestions sound like nice effects and I would like them included, but probably wouldn't do anything to suppress me at all.
One thing that would be fake would be the absence of any kind of suppression and to some people, not having anything is just as bad as adding an annoying suppression system to others.
Who is to say who will be calm under fire and who will twitch and flinch under fire? I for one actually like how it seems when my own avatar is under suppression and to say that those in favor of it only want others to suffer it really is wrong. Also the argument that someone is trying to force you to play their way with suppression can be said the same for someone playing against another without suppression.
Suppression was a valid tactic and I for one hope that some sort of system will be in play in ROHOS, even if it is different for the Realism and Relaxed Realism modes. Hopefully it will be something that isn't annoying as some find the DH system that has been used as an example above. At the same time, it shouldn't be something that can be easily ignored as if it didn't exist either.
One thing that would be fake would be the absence of any kind of suppression and to some people, not having anything is just as bad as adding an annoying suppression system to others.
Who is to say who will be calm under fire and who will twitch and flinch under fire? I for one actually like how it seems when my own avatar is under suppression and to say that those in favor of it only want others to suffer it really is wrong. Also the argument that someone is trying to force you to play their way with suppression can be said the same for someone playing against another without suppression.
Suppression was a valid tactic and I for one hope that some sort of system will be in play in ROHOS, even if it is different for the Realism and Relaxed Realism modes. Hopefully it will be something that isn't annoying as some find the DH system that has been used as an example above. At the same time, it shouldn't be something that can be easily ignored as if it didn't exist either.
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This about sums is up nicely!
Good post, this can be printed and sent to the PO box of Tripwire imho
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Not a very good argument. You make it appear as if we secretly want RO to be more like CoD.
Recoil ALWAYS happens IRL, on (almost) every gun.
Weapon sway ALWAYS happens IRL (except if the weapon is rested).
However...
A soldier's arms or rifle that begins twitching automatically when a bullet zips past does NOT always happen. Some experienced soldiers are incredibly calm during battle and are better at returning accurate fire than others. I want to see that in RO. I'm not saying that I want everybody to be able to pop up and kill a machine gunner, I'm saying that I want skilled players to be able to skillfully return fire if they have that skill (which comes with more and more practice). Advocates of the flinching effect want to get rid of that kind of real skill.
This whole discussion can be summed up like this:
- Some people want the avatar to be suppressed.
- Some people want the player to be suppressed.
- And some people flip-flop between the two (Zets )
Personally, I don't want some kind of artificial flinching mechanic that decides for me that I should keep my head down. I, the player, should be able to decide that for myself.
Like it or not... but if you add a flinching effect you do force a certain style of gameplay on everybody and that's wrong.
Suppression effects that suppress the avatar: some people are happy.
Suppression effects that suppress the player: everybody happy.
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The thing is that suppression does work in ArmA without any artificial effects but I can assure you that anything you suggested is not going to work in HoS.
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That's because many ArmA missions have no respawn. You get only one life plus maybe one chance to get help from a medic and that's it. Even if the mission does have respawn, the time to travel back from spawn to the action can take quite a long time, which contributes to the suppression (that being said, you get a lot of Rambos in Domination).
How do you know without testing it?
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How do you know without testing it?
It didn't work in RO:Ost, so how would it possibly work in HoS which will attract some more casual gamers than before? Also some HoS gametypes have been "sped up" by having closer spawns and more focused action.
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What do you mean by "it"? RO:Ost's 'suppression effect', or, better put, lack thereof? Nobody ever said that RO:HOS' suppression should exactly be like RO:Ost's. We all want better suppression.
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My point is that a suppression system without influencing the player's ability to aim is going to be less effective than it would be in RO:Ost, due to the faster and more accurate aiming, closer spawns and more focused gameplay.
But that's just my observations.
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Nimsky said:Not a very good argument. You make it appear as if we secretly want RO to be more like CoD.
Recoil ALWAYS happens IRL, on (almost) every gun.
Weapon sway ALWAYS happens IRL (except if the weapon is rested).
However...
A soldier's arms or rifle that begins twitching automatically when a bullet zips past does NOT always happen. Some experienced soldiers are incredibly calm during battle and are better at returning accurate fire than others. I want to see that in RO. I'm not saying that I want everybody to be able to pop up and kill a machine gunner, I'm saying that I want skilled players to be able to skillfully return fire if they have that skill (which comes with more and more practice). Advocates of the flinching effect want to get rid of that kind of real skill.
This whole discussion can be summed up like this:
It doesn't matter on which side of the argument you are, we all want better suppression in RO:HOS. But the ways of achieving that suppression are very very different.
- Some people want the avatar to be suppressed.
- Some people want the player to be suppressed.
- And some people flip-flop between the two (Zets
Personally, I don't want some kind of artificial flinching mechanic that decides for me that I should keep my head down. I, the player, should be able to decide that for myself.
Like it or not... but if you add a flinching effect you do force a certain style of gameplay on everybody and that's wrong.
Suppression effects that suppress the avatar: some people are happy.
Suppression effects that suppress the player: everybody happy.
Hear, hear!
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Well, I disagree. I think this:
... would be effective at keeping people's heads down during all of RO:HOS' game modes, especially Countdown.
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This whole discussion can be summed up like this:
It doesn't matter on which side of the argument you are, we all want better suppression in RO:HOS. But the ways of achieving that suppression are very very different.
- Some people want the avatar to be suppressed.
- Some people want the player to be suppressed.
- And some people flip-flop between the two (Zets
Personally, I don't want some kind of artificial flinching mechanic that decides for me that I should keep my head down. I, the player, should be able to decide that for myself.
Like it or not... but if you add a flinching effect you do force a certain style of gameplay on everybody and that's wrong.
Suppression effects that suppress the avatar: some people are happy.
Suppression effects that suppress the player: everybody happy.
oh, sorry, i forgot Nimsky's posts!!!!
REZ and Nimsky are co-champions
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The thing is everybody wants the player to be suppressed, but chances are that the player will never get suppressed. Meaning that to make suppression work suppressing some functionality of an avatar can make up for the deficit.
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Suppression comes with bullet penetration and deadly fire so artificial effects are not needed, like in real life. You don't get some black blurred vision when bullets go past. You just hear the supersonic bullet snaps and know the fire is deadly. Like in AA3, you hear the supersonic cracks (which are real recordings) and know the fire is deadly so you keep your head down. No visual effects please.
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fixed.
chances are that the effects suggested by REZ and Nimsky (and some you listed) will cause most all players to be suppressed, at least once they are just starting to learn the game. the difference is like a lot of people have said in regards to ROOST's "suppression" system.....after months/years of playing players get used to the system, which after all isn't that the way it should be? players developing actual experience as opposed to artificial experience (or lack thereof) affecting their avatars?
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I think what also happens is as players become more experienced they are better able to weigh the risks of their actions and this actually causes them to suppress themselves more in most situations, knowing they are more valuable alive than dead; being in better tune with the hemorrhaging of reinforcements and clock time etc. etc. If I've deduced that it's worth it to take a risk, I dont want to be forced to not take that risk because my avatar isnt capable of reacting properly.
..but I guess this doesnt fit the changing definition of suppression which seems to bounce back and forth between being forced to take cover, and being unable to return accurate fire.. or both. I dunno.
I still think the reason for wanting a DH type of suppression because it will make the game play out like one might have read in infantry manuals is a red herring of sorts and there is really a different reason for it.
..but I guess this doesnt fit the changing definition of suppression which seems to bounce back and forth between being forced to take cover, and being unable to return accurate fire.. or both. I dunno.
I still think the reason for wanting a DH type of suppression because it will make the game play out like one might have read in infantry manuals is a red herring of sorts and there is really a different reason for it.
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watching the most recent video again (for possibly the 100th time), does anyone else notice the 1st person animations when Ramm is moving to ironsight while behind cover? looks like they've already fixed the "popup" issue.
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I find it interesting that people are using bullet penetration as an example of something that will enhance suppression. On the contrary, I think that penetration will only serve to make any attempt at suppression (assuming an RO:Ost type system) even less useful. There's very little incentive to stay behind something if you know that bullets can come through it, so you might as well take your chances and try to nail that pesky MG, especially since you know that there's going to be almost no penalty to you for trying.
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