RO2 in Pelit-magazine - RO2=COD???

[masasa]

I guess I overreacted a bit regarding the new features when I compared RO2 to COD. In the end I guess having them make the pub play more interesting than it is currently. Just don't forget us clan players!

Most important thing is the gameplay itself, and it seems TWI has taken many steps to improve it with things like bullet penetration(finally!) and climbing over fences and cover system.

Still, I'm more of a "less is more" - kind of guy, and the thing that attracts me to RO the most is its simplicity(one shot kills, simple UI, one gamemode, easy controls, classes defined by map etc.). I just hope that RO2 can still capture this simplicity even though devs are adding so many more features to the game.

 

[Amerikaner]

This is exactly the type of thing we're doing in ROHOS. We're adding things that don't directly impact the core gameplay of realistic weapon handling and combat, that many people might consider "unrealistic" but make the game much easier to get into. Sorry if it makes the "purests" mad, but frankly we're adding a lot of stuff like this in ROHOS and you'll just have to judge for yourselves when it is released. If things like overhead maps, and actually being able to read the names of the roles are game breakers for you, I suggest you delete your forum account now and go on you're merry way

On top of extra interface stuff to make the game easier to understand, and make gameplay better, we're adding a lot of features to make the game MORE realistic. Things already mentioned like breathing, bullet penetration, sight adjustment, etc all make the game a lot more realistic and fun. But hey, lets just all rant because all the "cool" kids are doing it, and its apparently more fun than being optimistic

What kind of maturity level as a company president do you have to say we're voicing genuine concerns just because we're trying to be cool? Practice some tact Ramm, ask Wilsonam about it.

Having a different viewpoint is totally understandable but, as Rak mentioned, telling the fans who have supported you even way before your commercial success to get lost if they don't agree with you is not only disrespectful but an awful business model. If that's what you really want good luck ripping new fans away from their familiar mainstream titles seeing RO as the flavor of the week.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Other than that saying "go delete your account" to people who supported RO for many years and helped creating communites for it is a tad too far in my opinion.

Actually Rak its a pretty valid point. I'm laying the cards down for the fans of what types of new things are in ROHOS. If someone is so hardcore and jaded that adding an overhead map (like we did in the mod days), or adding an option for translated role names (like we did in the first retail game) are the types of things that will make them not want to play the new game, then they will be wasting their time on these forums. Because all those things did, was make the game more accessible without making the core game play less fun or less realistic. And we're continuing that trend for ROHOS.

Seriously, it really seems a bit silly that anyone could be upset by us adding an option to actually be able to read the role names, when there was an option to turn them back on. Something so far removed from game play, and that you could have set exactly the same way as before if you wanted, and yet some people were actually bothered by that. Its hard to take someone seriously after making a point like that.

 

[PNV]

On the role names, I know that they don't add to the gameplay in any way, but little things like that add to the atmosphere and immersion, which is possibly just as important. You might say that there isn't a great need for immersion since this is a multiplayer game and not a survival-horror like Dead Space, but since Red Orchestra takes place on the Eastern front, I think it's important to immerse the player in something so rarely genuinely experienced in gaming. So while there might be an option for both English and their realistic counterparts, I think that people should just stop being lazy and learn something new for a change.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

On the role names, I know that they don't add to the gameplay in any way, but little things like that add to the atmosphere and immersion, which is possibly just as important. You might say that there isn't a great need for immersion since this is a multiplayer game and not a survival-horror like Dead Space, but since Red Orchestra takes place on the Eastern front, I think it's important to immerse the player in something so rarely genuinely experienced in gaming. So while there might be an option for both English and their realistic counterparts, I think that people should just stop being lazy and learn something new for a change.

I too liked the native role names and played with them on, but I'm not going to judge a gamer that didn't do that and call them lazy. And as a business to stay in existence we must sell games to as broad an audience as possible (including those people that are less hardcore, or less patient than others).

Or to put it another way (since people don't seem to be getting us being subtle), we won't stay in business as a company if we don't sell a lot of games. The point is, if you want to continue to get ANY games from Tripwire (love them or hate them), we've got to do things to sell to as many people as possible. Next gen game development is very expensive, so concessions have to be made to make the games more appealing to a broader audience. As a company you have to pick your battles. For me, the smart concessions are things like the role names. They don't affect the core gameplay, guys don't magically now take 10 bolt action shots to the head, people aren't running like a cheetah, or bunny hopping like a crack addict, and the hardcore and the non hardcore are happy

 

[Zetsumei]

If you add in the option for english voice comms that got a german or russian accent im gonna love you if alan does it ill love it even more . I love the voice acting in return to castle wolfenstein etc.

 

[Speirs]

... Its hard to take someone seriously after making a point like that.

And it's also hard to take someone seriously who tells a good portion of his fans to delete their forum accounts.

Ramm, TWI has made the best WW2 FPS to date. The fanbase expects you guys to make a game that lives up to some expectations. Adding these unnecessary Hero features is really going to take away from the feel of the game.

I'm not trying to make this a personal thing. I just want to let you know that you guys are really pissing off some of the people that helped your company get where they are.

Stop RO's slow descent into a mediocre game please.

 

[Amerikaner]

I too liked the native role names and played with them on, but I'm not going to judge a gamer that didn't do that and call them lazy. And as a business to stay in existence we must sell games to as broad an audience as possible (including those people that are less hardcore, or less patient than others).

Or to put it another way (since people don't seem to be getting us being subtle), we won't stay in business as a company if we don't sell a lot of games. The point is, if you want to continue to get ANY games from Tripwire (love them or hate them), we've got to do things to sell to as many people as possible. Next gen game development is very expensive, so concessions have to be made to make the games more appealing to a broader audience. As a company you have to pick your battles. For me, the smart concessions are things like the role names. They don't affect the core gameplay, guys don't magically now take 10 bolt action shots to the head, people aren't running like a cheetah, or bunny hopping like a crack addict, and the hardcore and the non hardcore are happy

Concessions are fine but I think much of the concern is how the concessions are being made and the impact they make being negligible if not damaging. These changes can be made to help mainstream players get acclimated while still being realistic.

For example:

-Objective pop ups from Ostfront - instead of pirate scrolls have the commander shout the objective status and simply keep a line of text about it in chat

- Heroes of Stalingrad subtitle - by making the title sound like every other wargame it is not going to stand out. Call it Red Orchestra 2 and if you need a subtitle call it simply Red Orchestra 2: Stalingrad. The "Heroes" title undermines the realism and hides the facets that make RO different.

- Overhead maps - have an authentic looking battle map with what looks like hand drawn symbols for the player and obj icons and consider an animation for pulling the map out of the soldier's pocket ala Resistance and Liberation. As it is now its basically a WWII pda that breaks the immersion.

- Hints - instead of annoying seasoned players with hints they have to disable by default have an engaging tutorial for noobies. It would be much easier to guide the new players in a preset level than throw them into a daunting multiplayer battle (looks like you already have this one covered in RO2 though)

I could go on but my point is concessions do not have to be arcade elements. They can please everyone.

 

[BoltActionJackson]

Ramm....I love ya buddy. I still miss the early days of retail release RO and occasionally getting to play with you and some of the other developers. Great times.

I also share some of the worries of what will be done for a more mainstream appeal. However I understand that it has to be done and it sounds like once again TWI has some good ideas of how to do it without killing that great RO feel. I also agree that worrying about roll names is not only incredibly pompous but way off the mark on what is important in the development of RO:HOS. Very trivial imho.

I have gotten so much more than my moneys worth from RO you can't even imagine. This alone keeps my trust in TWI steady and I will be patiently awaiting this next release. Keep up the good work. Now off to play some DH.

Thanks,

DC

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

And it's also hard to take someone seriously who tells a good portion of his fans to delete their forum accounts.

That was a fairly extreme way of poking fun at some of the whining going on. But in all seriousness, if something like native role names being translated (as an option) makes someone actually not want to buy a game, then they will likely just get more frustrated as they hear more info about ROHOS. So it is best if they just hop off of the forums now and save themselves and the rest of the sensible people on the forums the heartache I don't seriously believe that people that are tweaked by stuff like that are a "good portion" of our fans, but rather a very vocal minority. Any logical fan would go "hmm, I preferred the native role names, I'll just turn them back on and move on".

On the bright side, two things haven't changed - first I still don't kiss people's butts (and I never have going back to the mod days), and second, TWI are still making the type of tactical shooter they want (one that is TWI's brand of realism).

 

[Zetsumei]

My main worry of things is not achievements and things like that. (as long as for clanplay things can be put on an even level for all players)

It would be map design and weapon balancing.
Like a lot of people like danzig maps and push maps, but another yet maybe smaller group likes freedom in maps and cap options. The ability to win a map by surprising the enemy, rather than just fighting better.

The main thing that i didnt like from going from mod to retail, was more channeling of players to be closer together, and the amount of filling in streets. Like a thrown on the side truck or sandbag barricade or a stack of wood every few meters. Creating a feeling for me of missing open areas in a lot of the stock maps.

Another thing i didnt like was that smgs and pistols having a form of spread that is really wide (especially with a pistol) together with a high amount of recoil (even though some parameters have been the same in the mod).
Or the difference in schrapnel from grenades.

For this i hope that like cod something like a harcore mode would be there. Even though stock it would be more realistic than cod's version already, there are always those that want it more. The added accuracy to the mg's is one of my most beloved changes in ro.

Other things in ost that i loved being implemented were leaning, prone diving, bolting, and resting. (although i'm not liking the amount of sway when not rested ). I was always a big supporter of adding in smoke grenades (although i think that the amount of smokes going off in 1 round are overkill). And as maps go odessa while looking unrealistic to many, gameplay wise it is a real beauty.

For myself konings was exactly the opposite, its great looking and a good map and i learned to appreciate it, but i came in to that map expecting gameplay like berlin (which i still to this day think had the best gameplay of all maps, and im not saying this out of nostalgy as i only started ro with 2.0).

Ro is at this point still my favourite game ever, and i have not found any game to replace it yet since i started playing with 2.0. But i would be lying if there werent some things replaced gameplay wise that were core reasons of me loving the game (like the pre 3.0 cap system) and its not like im a guy that doesnt like changes, although loads of things could have been options.

Most of the guys of which i know that they played the mod (the few that are left) are sceptical, because of some changes in the past that (and most could have easily been server options rather than forced gameplay options).

I know you guys work really hard, but please dont forget about some of the original fans, even though they like the game slightly different. The sole reason that people are so worried to the point of being uptight about things, is because they really care for this title. Which can and should be considered as one of the biggest compliments.

 

[Amerikaner]

That was a fairly extreme way of poking fun at some of the whining going on. But in all seriousness, if something like native role names being translated (as an option) makes someone actually not want to buy a game, then they will likely just get more frustrated as they hear more info about ROHOS. So it is best if they just hop off of the forums now and save themselves and the rest of the sensible people on the forums the heartache I don't seriously believe that people that are tweaked by stuff like that are a "good portion" of our fans, but rather a very vocal minority. Any logical fan would go "hmm, I preferred the native role names, I'll just turn them back on and move on".

On the bright side, two things haven't changed - first I still don't kiss people's butts (and I never have going back to the mod days), and second, TWI are still making the type of tactical shooter they want (one that is TWI's brand of realism).

Please comment on why my suggestions in my last post are not the direction you want to go. I'd just like to know if you are really adding the arcadey elements for more players/money or if you genuinely think they improve the game. Cause if it's the former like you're insisting I think its pretty obvious my suggestions make sense to please everyone. If it's the latter then I'll have to deal with it. It's just you've been saying one thing and demonstrating the other with the announcements. I'd really appreciate that clarification so I know where you stand and I can deal with it and shutup.

 

[LogisticEarth]

"purests"

"purests"

Just to be a nitpicker, the word is "purist".

I think if the "heroes" system isn't a huge focus of the game, it might be interesting, but I'm still really skeptical. My primary concern is limiting the number of "heroes" so that it doesn't turn out to be a server full of super men.

If they're actually signifigantly different, I'd hope they don't get ressurected every spawn. That would be really jarring to the atmosphere if there seemed to be enough "heroes" to just keep sending into the meat grinder.

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Somebody is signifigantly trying to ressurected the English language!

 

[Zennousha]

Is it sad that I actually couldn't forsee these people *****ing and complaining about things they have no actual idea about? They get these little ideas worked up in their heads and go with it stubbornly.

Why don't you just smegging wait before you waste your (and our) time and frustration? I too have played since the Mod days, and I have faith in them as a company to do things properly.

Oh, and for those saying that the role names brings "immersion"? I'm pretty sure a gigantic menu selection for roles enough is an immersion killer, so don't go there. It's a nice authentic and educated detail, but nothing beyond that.

 

[PNV]

Oh, and for those saying that the role names brings "immersion"? I'm pretty sure a gigantic menu selection for roles enough is an immersion killer, so don't go there. It's a nice authentic and educated detail, but nothing beyond that.

Now that's taking my opinion to an extreme. It's a game, so obviously it has to have menus for you to access things But yes, it's a detail, and details create atmosphere.

 

[Amerikaner]

Now that's taking my opinion to an extreme. It's a game, so obviously it has to have menus for you to access things But yes, it's a detail, and details create atmosphere.

If this continues just wait for the next poster to say "if you want it to be so realistic why dont you just join the army?". Same thing over and over. It's pretty hopeless.

 

[illinifan]

the thing that has me worried the most is that little excerpt in the pcgamer article, which went something like(not a direct quote here)"were going to keep what the fans loved about the game, the gunplay"

that indicates to me that they will keep the ballistics and free aim and ironsights while adding penetration to keep it realistic, while adding gamey elements like heroes that dont effect the realism of the guns
of course, i could be wrong and i hope i am

 

[Zennousha]

Now that's taking my opinion to an extreme. It's a game, so obviously it has to have menus for you to access things But yes, it's a detail, and details create atmosphere.

And yet no one thinks they're blowing it out of proportion when considering leaving a game that isn't even released yet over details that haven't even been discussed.

 

[Fedorov]

guys, the core gameplay wont change, it will actually improve.

we stil have no health bars, no crosshairas, free aim, no health packs, or regeneration, no enemy radar, an improved realistic damage system, and now there is bullet penetration too.

all I've read so far is a step forward to more realism.

what you guys want is not a more realistic game, what you want is a more raw and basic game, thats understandable, I like that too, but for that we can always reinstall the ut2k4 RO, we will always have the right to be elitist pricks and tell the noobs that we were there.

I do not want a simple engine port of the same game (even if it is the greatest game of all times as it was), just an engine post hardly justifies a new game. If Tripwire want to sell games, RO must grow, not only in grapics but in features, a huge list of features that I trust TWI that will increase the realism. Of course, the feeling of "raw and basic" will be lost and will also be missed, but on the other hand we'll have a much more ralistic, complex and bigger game with features never seen before.

I would like people to wait till we and know more details, play it and feel it before scraming COD!!

I'm also sure the hero, medal and experience system will get more people hooked, more people playing the game, more servers to choose, and we won't have the ostfront effect in which we only have 3 choices: The wild bunch, Danzig 24/7 and Arad 24/7