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Level Design RO-SnowyForest

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#63
Just played SnowyForestB9 today. WOW.

That map is amazing, it's probably the best custom map ever made for RO. I mean, it feels so professionaly made it should be included within the official maps or at least be available on every RO server!

Everything plays fine, the atmosphere is incredible, the looks are stunning. Thumbs up to the mapper!
 
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#68
Yes you can create a collision for the wire strands say 1 Ued unit thick - create the whole brush in the editor by carefully building a BSP version of the fence and wire - intersecting the whole lot to get your complete red builder brush - right click on that builder brush and at the bottom of the menu you will see Save brush As Collision - Voila! - wire fence with collision (wires included)

Lruce
 
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#70
Lruce Bee said:
Yes you can create a collision for the wire strands say 1 Ued unit thick - create the whole brush in the editor by carefully building a BSP version of the fence and wire - intersecting the whole lot to get your complete red builder brush - right click on that builder brush and at the bottom of the menu you will see Save brush As Collision - Voila! - wire fence with collision (wires included)

Lruce
Click to expand...

Would barbed wire really need some collision was ever a bullet stopped by some barbed wire and what is the chance of hitting it and stopping on koningsplatz the barbed wire is really irritating because it stops bullets. I'd say making things like wood and barbed wire fully pass bullets is better than just stopping it.
 
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#71
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#72
Just recapping what I have posted on other threads:

This is just copied and pasted from the thread in the General topics---So you can see my comments if they will help at all.

Excellent map IMO...probably one of the best, if not the best, custom map (Train Escape will always have a place in my heart :p)

It seems a lot like a reskinned and redone version of Basovka Station (which isn't bad, its a great map) in just the playstyle. You have three linear non-recappable objectives, with Germans attacking and Ruskies defending, similiar story with artillery, and the layout is in some ways similiar (First you have the Germans running through a turkey shoot to get into a cap zone, then a middle objective with lots of close in combat and people from both teams coming it all sides, hard to keep your bearings, and the objective is usually a throw away imo, never holds for more than 5 mins). Then the last one, where the Russians regroup, and have some nice defensive positions, but its hard to dislodge the germans if they do get in, so not as easy to hold as the first cap zone (if properly defended.)

It depends to much on the first objective, generally Russians either DESTROY the germans on the first cap zone (one game we had 51% reinforcements when the last german died, and over 10 minutes left.) The germans weren't bad..its just the layout of the first cap zone makes it so they have to run into lots of rifle fire. They do not get a chance to really return fire cause of the layout, and the Russians blending in makes it harder.

However, if they get past the first objective in a reasonable time, the second cap zone is a joke...and the only time I have seen the Germans fail on the third cap zone is when their commanders order the artillery not far enough ahead, and end up killing only germans and not Russians.

Other problems---
You cannot shoot through the fence. This should either be made into a wall (which can still be blasted.) or allow people to shoot through.
The German spawn zones need to be worked on
I see the middle cap zone as a place of lots of frantic melee, bayonetting, and mowing down people with SMGs (where you can never be sure if your flanks are covered.) To accomplish this, I think the middle cap zone should be recappable, and further on (say near the trench) there shuold be a mortar or a flak cannon which the Germans can satchel that makes it non-recappable. I think this would go a long way to balancing too.
Like I said, the first objective needs to not have the "Turkey shoot" syndrome, which doesn't happen every game but seems to happen a lot.

However, I do like the general feel, its very nice. It makes you really feel like your defending against hordes of incoming Germans as a Russian. It makes you feel like you need to advance but to advance is to die as a German. In short, it feels like a war.
 
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#75
Barbed wire has strange properties in that you can set it up to allow bullets to pass through but not actors etc - players would be the first to say that barbed wire fences might as well be brick walls - totally unrealistic - only problem here is vehicles can't pass through/over the mesh if you create the correct collision which is why you get that annoying 10 ton tank halted in it's tracks by a twig fence - fiddled with this for ages and there are several threads discussing this in an attempt to resolve it - answers on a post card if any einsteins out there can come up with a decent solution.........oh and leaving barbed wire fences out of the map altogether is not a solution before anyone asks - engine limitation unfortunately

Lruce
 
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#76
I just played B10 (played earlier betas previosly) and I was somewhat disappointed...

First off, while the first spawn lost the Turkey Shoot quality it had earlier, it now seems almost like the Germans are defending, since often they get there before the Russians, and have better positions. The initial Russian spawn needs to be moved closer to the frontline. There needs to be a radio closer to the frontline. And the German Barbed wire fence needs to be visible from the front line (or at least an area close enough that the germans cannot have spread out.) That way, blowing multiple segments of wall makes sense. In B10, people don't bother to blow more than one, cause the first cap zone is not such a big challenge.

The best case scenario would be if you made it so we could shoot through the barbed wire, and both the barbed wire and the area behind it are both in clearly visible (and under fire) from Russian positions, so the Germans arep utting themselves at risk to blow extra sections. Of course, that would bring the level back the turkey shoot syndrome, but otherwise the fence is nothing more than a 10 second pause in the german advance (in which case I would rather have no fence and the german spawn be a few seconds further back.) Furthermore, it makes no sense to have a barbed wire fence without the area being covered with suppresive fire. Maybe the fence should be moved further into the map, more of a North Railway barrier than a 10 second distraction.

It also feels like B10 has lost some of the ambience that people like so much. A lot of areas of the map are a very dirty snow. I live in an area that mostly gets a very slushy, dirty snow...and it should not be that dirty if the snow is falling as fast as it is in the map (it should have more of a powdery look, but not do overdone.) I suppose explosions would make it somewhat dirty, but many areas of the map I would say look like it is less than a half-inch covering.

I do like how you redid the middle forest. I still think that the middle forest should be made re-capable by the Russians (with some saper target or other similiar trigger to make it non-recapable, if it does shift the balance to much in favor of the Russians.) I don't say this so much to favor the Russians as to create a general area of havoc, with people lost in the woods and enemies (and friendlies to all sides.) You already get this somewhat, but the objective is taken rather quick, and then the Russians fall back. Making it recapable would only add to the confusion, and make it a very close range melee/smg fight to countertone (what was) a long range rifle fight at the frontline.
 
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#77
Lruce Bee said:
Yes you can create a collision for the wire strands say 1 Ued unit thick - create the whole brush in the editor by carefully building a BSP version of the fence and wire - intersecting the whole lot to get your complete red builder brush - right click on that builder brush and at the bottom of the menu you will see Save brush As Collision - Voila! - wire fence with collision (wires included)

Lruce
Click to expand...

Can't you just have the smesh collision property to stop karma (or actors, or whatever people are) only but not whatever the collision variable is for bullets?

I ask because I want my hedges to do the same.
 
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#78
Lruce Bee said:
Barbed wire has strange properties in that you can set it up to allow bullets to pass through but not actors etc - players would be the first to say that barbed wire fences might as well be brick walls - totally unrealistic - only problem here is vehicles can't pass through/over the mesh if you create the correct collision which is why you get that annoying 10 ton tank halted in it's tracks by a twig fence - fiddled with this for ages and there are several threads discussing this in an attempt to resolve it - answers on a post card if any einsteins out there can come up with a decent solution.........oh and leaving barbed wire fences out of the map altogether is not a solution before anyone asks - engine limitation unfortunately

Lruce
Click to expand...

On KonigsPlatz the barbed wire allows all vehicles to pass through it while still stopping players but I haven't been able to replicate this effect on my own barbed wire static mesh. I've put them side by side in my test map and made sure every single property (SM browser properties as well) is identical but my static still blocks vehicles. I too could really use an answer to this problem. :(

Oh and in attempt to not look like a thread hijacker I will say that Snowy Forrest is a nice map that could use an overhead map and a bit of terrain smoothing work done on it. :)
 
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#79
The fence which you must blow, is blocking all bullets... It's quite dumb, you can see all the defending russians, stand up, aim - shoot and then cover again to select target that is not looking to you.

Also the terrain outside battlefield is unrealistic, invisible wall would be much better to block players going too far than random ridge and mountain.
 
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#80
Drude and HH have some good points. The artifical ridge line looks - artifical, and thus not very realistic.

The fence as obstacle needs to be in a russian fire zone (and bullets need to pass trough) - otherwise it isn't an obstacle (and old combat engineering axiom is to always cover your wire and minefields with fire to prevent clearing).

Also, I like the idea about a late-war german defense - usually the germans were not attacking during winter, not even in early war. It would also make the map a nice "mirror" of Basovka - open terrain, trenches, but winter instead of summer, and russians instead of germans attacking. Perhabs a halftrack and a BA-64 could be added as MG positions, or a bit more bunker-network.
 
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