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Question about the damage of Support's FP combo

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HoopleDoople

Grizzled Veteran
Feb 28, 2012
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#1
About a week ago I finally hit level 6 with Support (my 5th level 6th... as good as Support is I really shouldn't have left it that long). Since then I've been hard at work practicing and mastering the combos for killing Scrake and Fleshpound. As I've become better at the FP combo I noticed something that surprised me - done properly, it only takes 3 grenades and a double barrel Hunting Shotgun blast to kill the FP.

My question is how exactly does this deliver lethal damage? A 6 man Hell on Earth Fleshpound has 5906 health. The double barrel Hunting Shotgun blast deals 1600 damage (500 base * 1.6 level bonus * 2 barrels) and the 3 grenades deal 2700 damage (300 base * 1.5 level bonus * 2 bonus FP damage * 3 grenades) for a total of 4300. Assuming I calculate that properly, it shouldn't be lethal.

My first thought was that it must be doing head damage, as a 6 man HoE FP has only 3063 head health (the grenades alone almost do that much). But I've never seen the FP decap doing the combo and I couldn't pull off the quicker kill aiming for the head. If I had to take a guess I'd say the grenades are dealing their damage twice. Can anyone confirm this or give me the correct answer?
 
#3
No when I tried aiming for the head it took an additional double barrel Hunting Shotgun blast to finish off the FP. To down the FP with just 3x grenades and a single double barrel Hunting Shotgun blast I had to aim for the FP's chest.

I forget to mention before, but for success I think the grenades need to land directly underneath the FP, between his legs.

And as far as the wiki's numbers they align with the weapon stat spreadsheet, which I have much more faith in.
 
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#6
The grenade's damage varies depending on how close they are to the zed. Therefore if you drop them right at his feet it'll deal more damage than slightly in front, and I -think- if it explodes on his chest it'll deal more damage than dropped at his feet, because it's closer to his head and maybe his body (don't know where the centre of his body hitbox is).
 
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#7
I cannot see the media thanks to china's great firewall, it blocks Youtube.

Agh, I think that the combo comes in such a way.

SC: X AA12 headshots until SC is upon you, Double barrel jump blast.
X=0~10, Soloing SC can be done by a direct double barrel blast, 6 men HOE need 10 AA12 headshots.

FP: Fragging. 2 grenades+blast on solo, 3 grenades+blast+3 grenades on 6 men HOE.(You need to let the grenade BOUNCE once in order to prevent the 6th grenade explode on your face.) This will be an instakill upon explosion. Normally, if there's more than 3 men HOE, just use 4 grenades and finish the rest with shooting.
(11/4 is nearly 3, 11/6 is nearly 2. For the 3rd FP's sake, use less grenade.)
Note again: AA12 is not used against FP unless you are finishing his health AFTER the explosion.
 
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#8
  • Grenades or any others explosives can't hit the head.
  • FP has 50% damage resistance against shotguns, so L6 HSg can make only 800 damage max (theoretically).
  • Shotgun pellets have x1.65 headshot multiplier (1.1 * 1.5). So if all pellets hit the head, you L6 supports does 1320 damage to FP head.
  • Shotgun pellets can hit zed multiple times. When making diagonal shot through the head (by crouching or jumping), pellets hit auxiliary collision cylinder (ExtendedZCollision), then zed's head, then collision cylinder again, when flying out of zed body.
  • Support Spec. has much better shotgun penetration (imo too much better). HSg pellets loose only 3.5% damage after each hit, when used by level 6 Support.
  • So if all pellets hit, you do 800dp, then 800*0.965*1.65 to the head, then 800*0.965*0.965 again. That is 800 + 1273 + 744 = 2817.
 
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#9
poosh said:
  • Grenades or any others explosives can't hit the head.
  • FP has 50% damage resistance against shotguns, so L6 HSg can make only 800 damage max (theoretically).
  • Shotgun pellets have x1.65 headshot multiplier (1.1 * 1.5). So if all pellets hit the head, you L6 supports does 1320 damage to FP head.
  • Shotgun pellets can hit zed multiple times. When making diagonal shot through the head (by crouching or jumping), pellets hit auxiliary collision cylinder (ExtendedZCollision), then zed's head, then collision cylinder again, when flying out of zed body.
  • Support Spec. has much better shotgun penetration (imo too much better). HSg pellets loose only 3.5% damage after each hit, when used by level 6 Support.
  • So if all pellets hit, you do 800dp, then 800*0.965*1.65 to the head, then 800*0.965*0.965 again. That is 800 + 1273 + 744 = 2817.
Click to expand...

I heard of it. I heard that someone can kill an 6 men HOE SC without AA12. The essence of such a kill is double-barrel CROUCH double blast. However this is extremely risky on MP thanks to the latency AND the double-barrel's instable pellet distribution. If the SC is not instakilled with the blast...well, you are in trouble.
 
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#10
Utopia-Phoenix said:
I heard of it. I heard that someone can kill an 6 men HOE SC without AA12. The essence of such a kill is double-barrel CROUCH double blast. However this is extremely risky on MP thanks to the latency AND the double-barrel's instable pellet distribution. If the SC is not instakilled with the blast...well, you are in trouble.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the crouched chin-shot had to be done after the Scrake is flinched by melee (usually Axe or Katana alt-fire is used). Is it possible to pull this off without the melee? Regardless, with practice using the melee alt-fire first makes the chin-shot decently reliable in multiplayer. It's still a safer bet to let a Sharpshooter, Berserker, or even Husk Gun wielding Firebug take the Scrakes (assuming they don't suck).

Now I know it is definitely possible to kill a Scrake in a single double barrel Hunting Shotgun blast using the jump shot method. As far as I can tell it's really difficult without softening up the Scrake's head first. At the very least I'm nowhere near good enough to pull it off.
 
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#12
HoopleDoople said:
I was under the impression that the crouched chin-shot had to be done after the Scrake is flinched by melee (usually Axe or Katana alt-fire is used). Is it possible to pull this off without the melee?
Click to expand...

The only thing melee does is flinch the scrake and make him stand still so you know where his head is and he's not moving his head taking a swing at you. You don't need the extra melee damage or benefit from the flinch other than this.

Likewise, it's possible to jump shot him without flinching. I'm not sure if he'll start to swing slightly later if you jump at him, or the jump just gets you in position more easily than crouching will. However, due to lag it's far easier to soften him up first because you'll rarely have 0 lag and aim exactly where you want to.

On solo hosted games though, jump shots without softening are certainly possible, and if you crouch and let him swing then start sawing you, you can kill him with a single shot -if- you can get his head.
 
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#15
C_Gibby said:
I thought this was just a myth and was more due to is ensuring that every pellet hits.
Click to expand...

Presume this is troll, but even so.

If this were the case, running up and point blanking into his chest would have practically the same effect, but it'll take 4? 5? to kill a scrake with this method on HoE.

HSG deals 50x20 damage (20 pellets).

6man HoE scrakes have 2843.75 head HPs and 6125 body HPs. Even with the 1.65x HS mod and 1.6x support bonus, this is miles off without some penetration magic.
 
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#16
Would anyone mind painting a quick portrait of how hitboxes are split up? (And I've jump HSG 6man HoE scrakes without HEARING any headshot noise, making me assume:
A. Body + Foot hitboxes are enough to kill or...
B. The noise just didn't play.
C. There are multiple Body hitboxes.

Also, I don't notice hitting the body at all during a crouch HSG shot (I pull it off all the time, but only notice headshots)

@UtopiaPhoenix, a 6man HoE FP kill is Nade > HSG > Nade > Nade. Sometimes you need an extra HSG jumpshot, sometimes not. I don't understand why you'd use 6 nades and a HSG shot.

Another great question for you all:
How come if you kill a zed (say LAR + M14EBR sc combo) you deal normal recorded damage until the last shot, where you deal substantially more damage. (Recorded, so this makes no affect on actual gameplay, as it would've been the last shot anyways. But the game registers as having done extra damage, sometimes by thousands.) I may take a screenshot of this.

Off-topic: Is there any way I can find stats on mute server's zombies? (I've recently gotten into an Aliens 6-30 Sentry/Turret/Bot server that's loads of fun and would like to know the stats on each weapon and zed)
 
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#17
AlbusPluvia said:
Another great question for you all:
How come if you kill a zed (say LAR + M14EBR sc combo) you deal normal recorded damage until the last shot, where you deal substantially more damage. (Recorded, so this makes no affect on actual gameplay, as it would've been the last shot anyways. But the game registers as having done extra damage, sometimes by thousands.) I may take a screenshot of this.
Click to expand...

There's a decapitation bonus when you decap a zed. Scary covers this really well:
Killing Floor - Decapitation Mechanics 02 - YouTube
 
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#19
AlbusPluvia said:
Another great question for you all:
How come if you kill a zed (say LAR + M14EBR sc combo) you deal normal recorded damage until the last shot, where you deal substantially more damage. (Recorded, so this makes no affect on actual gameplay, as it would've been the last shot anyways. But the game registers as having done extra damage, sometimes by thousands.) I may take a screenshot of this.
Click to expand...

Basically, when a zed is decapitated, he'll receive 25% of his HPs as bonus damage, as well as receiving the decapitating shot's worth of damage again.

ie. a scrake gets decapped by an offperk Xbow bolt. He'll take 1200 damage to the head, then take a quarter of his HPs as damage, then take another 1200 damage.

Hence, when soloing a 6man HoE FP as a sharp, it's better to headshot him with a 9mm, then Xbow bolt him rather than Xbow bolt him 3 times, then 9mm him. Both of them will decap him, but one means he's still got a LOT more HPs.
 
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