PPSh needs historical buffs now that the Mkb is here.

[Leto Atreides]

I made a thread asking for drum mags which got ignored a few days ago.

Anyway, now that we have all those rare weapons widely available, what justification is there to keep something as common as a PPSH drum mag locked?

 

[ALYKZANDYR]

Once i got the hang of it, i was racking up the kills with the AVT last night, unfortunately none of my progress saved.

anyway, the AVT needs a 20 round mag, i lost count of the times i round a corner, see a german, and all it get is click.

Ive tried the MKB, its nice but i dont like how it dosent maintain a smooth, constant rate of fire like the AVT. Its annoying and the MP-40 does it too.

 

[Derpus]

I think one solution to the T-34 vs Pz4 is to have 1 P4 vs 2 T-34; i.e. more Russian tanks than German on most maps. I can kill P4 quickly with T-34 if they're exposing their side, but obviously the front has thicker armor and they have the capability to 1 shot T-34 from the front.

 

[Littlenorwegians]

You can get the AVT to work, you can get the PPSH to work, you can get the MP40 to work, but in the end of the day, MKB strikes me as the best all-purpose weapon.

Really, I've been using nothing but SVT since beta. occasionally going over to using the revolver, but I tried the MKB and it's a beast. I need only look at you and you're dead.

And it's good at far-range too. With the SVT you get a shot and then you can sort of adjust for one more, but with the MKB you can just spray and make a death-zone where you're spraying.


And the AVT is useless, I mean, first shot's fine, second's a wild guess and by the third, you're aiming for the moon.

The MKB is a good gun, it is better than the PPSH historically, but keep it within limits, please. Elite Rifleman. Give it to him. He'll know what to do with it.

 

[crockett]

And then, for the love of god, do something with that POS T-34 next!

As far as the PPSH I think the game would be a hell of a lot better is there were many less MG all together. As I said in another topic, most of WW2 soldiers were using bolt action rifles but in game it's easily 60% having MG or semi auto's. This is what skews the balance IMO and makes smaller servers specially extremely hard to play on using bolt action rifles.

I do however think there is way too much kick with it vs what I've seen in various vids online.

As far as the tanks I've been exclusively using the T-34 when I select tanks just to learn it to see if it's capable of really countering the Panzer IV. My conclusion is yes it's quite capable, but it's harder to do so.

I was also thinking it needed a buff but I instead took the time to learn how to use it.

You have to play smarter than the guy in the Panzer and effectively use your cover. You take your quick pop shots and move to a new location if they are getting you zero'd in.

Yesterday, I managed to match the top kills of the Panzer in a T-34 for the first time. However it wasn't like I could try and stand my ground and duke it out. I was popping in and out of cover and moving.

1 other guy on the Allies side also did pretty well then the rest of the team pretty much just died in droves, because they stayed in the open trying to trade rounds with the Panzers. The T-34 is capable of beating the Panzers but you have to learn how to use it and not be retard sitting on the hill out in the open.

 

[greenlemonade]

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=885790#post885790



Some people who voted "keep it the same" said they did so because they they didn't want to get "stuck" with box mag after reaching level 25.

My suggestion is make it a choice. When box mag unlocked, give a choice to use it instead of auto-equip. I'd personally use box mag. Its more versatile.

 

[the_Monk]

1. Level up the PPSH and see how glorious it can actually be. Once the recoil percentages and time needed to bring up iron-sights go down.....my my......what a beautiful gun. Oh and once I unlock that DRUM mag? You're all done for.


2. The AVT40 kicks ***. I agree with the other poster saying although the Mkb is nice (in my opinion because it's a jack-of-all/most-trades) but the AVT40's more consistent rate of fire is very deadly when learned how to use.

In CQB I use the AVT40 on auto and it shreds anyone foolish enough to be in front of me.

At range on single-fire the AVT40 handles itself very much like the SVT and that is not a bad thing.


3. The T-34 is a hit-and-run type of tank. Get in the zone.......shoot....get the hell out. Playing the T-34 you must be constantly moving only stopping long enough to get a shot off. Play that way and the P4's start dropping like flies.


Here's something I posted about weapon "balance" in another thread since forgotten about:

This game doesn't appear to model round lethality (a rifle round at 200m would do a hell of a lot more damage than an SMG if it travelled that far) which would be the best way to balance things but TWI have done a very nice job in reflecting the characteristics of the individual weapons in relation to their real-world counterparts.

Having said that, I understand the need for balance in a game so here are a few points/suggestions:

RO has always been about asymmetrical balance so map design, uniform colour, guns and even unlocks don't balance each other out when seen 1:1 rather when one looks at both sides of the big picture.

While these new weapons aren't inherently imbalanced, they are skewing the balance of the overall picture and that is not good. What is needed is some more tweaking at the map design level for instance spawn locations, cap zones, class additons (ie. elite assault for the new assault rifles on each side) and class limitations.

My suggestions would be to create an ELITE ASSAULT class for each side, let 64-player servers have a max of 2 per side (that can be dropped to 1 per side on a 32-player server). That and give the Germans a MAX of 3 regular assault class, and the Russians a MAX of 6 regular assault class. No nerfing/buffing of any of the weapons in the game required.

This way we don't entertain the game-dooming cycle of nerf-buff-nerf that so often spells the end of great potential before it can ever be realised.

Well....unless the DEVS want to buff my boltie rifles some....*cough* *cough*......hehe

 

[jenskai1]

20% higher rate of fire for the PPSH 41 and less recoil for the SVT, a ushanka for each class once you reach Veteran status.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

He who uses an AVT in full auto and wonders whats wrong needs his head looked at.

Your post good sir is only 50% true. The ballance is fubed BOTH WAYS.

Heres' how I figure this.

The AVT is BASICALLY another SVT 40, for those with the brains to flick it over to semi and leave it there. This means that the russians now have MUCH more power at rifle range over the germans, they can sport 1/3 of their team with semi auto rifles. I played a few rounds of station yesterday where the Germans were struggeling to get THE FIRST OBJ!

Aside: Actually if you get 6 assault, 3 SAR, 2 ER, 4 FTL, 1 SL thats a max of 16 SVT 40's, thats 50% semi auto rifles.

The MKB on the other hand is a medium - short range monster, so maps like appartments are a lot of what you said, the Command center ( srry im going to continue using danzig names ) is a German giveaway, the only chance of survival is to pack into the Langer Market and hold tight.

This has caused lots of maps to go either way, if there is some range, boom the russians win hands down. If its CQB BOOM the germans win again hands down. The few hours I played yesterday all followed that rule of thumb there to an accuracy of about 99% of the time.

edit: just had to bold that bit about the AVT being an SVT with a useless function, seems people dont think to much.

 

[Empa]

atm MKB is locked to Assault only.

meaning usualy 6 max MKB will be on the field. but that can be a problem when theres only like 10 v 10 meaning that 50 % of the german forces got an superb overall rifle.

How about making so that only 1 or 2 out of the 6 assault players be able to have the MKB?

 

[red army]

yeah i agree with OP...the Soviets get ****ed 90% of the time. THe only way the Soviets can win is if the Germans are retarded and sit in the back corner of the map picking their a55es, which they usually dont. The stupid *** german uniforms are still a ***** to spot in most maps, while Soviets are still shiny "shoot me" signs do to their glowing uniforms...the MKB is ridiculous, and i tried ppsh/avt40 and im sorry but they suck *** compared to mkb.t-34, dont even mention it. And its not like in real life the germans were that much better, in fact in real life the t34s crushed pz IVs, until the pz IV's got their long barrel gun upgrade, but around the stalingrad battle even those long barrel pzIV's were still a minority of german tank force, and mojority of german tanks was ****ty pz IV short barrel / pz III's. And the maps...particularly Commissar's house, is just a turkey shoot for the Germans...they just sit in front of spawn 1/2 and shoot into the doors and spawn kill. THIS GAME IS SO BROKEN...but fun...but quickly losing its fun due to ****ty soviets...especially for me, because im a hardcore soviet player ever since RO1 and the fact that they are really bad in this game is pissing me off. I still manage to do good with my good ol' nagant and go like 30-5 every match, BUT my team always gets owned and i cant even expect to win anymore...fix the Soviets pls

 

[melipone]

Rather than make SMG's even easier, there should be a higher bolt-smg/semi ratio. Now its like 1/3 are bolts on a team when it should be at least 2/3 or 3/4

You don't balance something thats too easy with something else thats just as easy

 

[greenlemonade]

Make the prototypes "Elite rifleman" ONLY.

This would be wonderful They don't fit the "assault" class because they are GREAT at long range.

 

[SnowyOak]

Shouldn't the drum mag add more mass to the gun when unlocked, reducing recoil as well?

 

[Littlenorwegians]

Strange argument I hear often about the Russian tank and weapons.
It's good, if you know how to use it.
It gets good once you adjust.

Well, what about the MKB and MP40 which are just... good?

I'm seeing a lot of German victories a lot of MKB death icons.
Not too many of the AVT...

 

[Justin MacDuro]

1. Level up the PPSH and see how glorious it can actually be. Once the recoil percentages and time needed to bring up iron-sights go down.....my my......what a beautiful gun. Oh and once I unlock that DRUM mag? You're all done for.


2. The AVT40 kicks ***. I agree with the other poster saying although the Mkb is nice (in my opinion because it's a jack-of-all/most-trades) but the AVT40's more consistent rate of fire is very deadly when learned how to use.

:

Level up the PPSH is very hard when the stats are crazy and not working for a lot of people ... that my situation , crazy stats not saving so no eapon progres so no unlocks or any benefit ...

I agree with the AVT , I have played with it today and I have fond that it is a very goo weapon if you now how to use it ... and I really lol his penetration lvl ... you can kick some ases behind cover and they will never noticed what happened .


Anyway ... if the PPSH has an altarnate fire in the real life it should be modeled here too .

 

[clench]

I really don't have much of a problem with any of the weapons, with exception of the AVT's low ammo, I think giving it 20 rounds is fair and puts it more into the LMG role like a BAR.

The MkB really doesn't bother me when I play Russian, I still find myself getting killed more by bolters and G41 users at long range before I ever run into MkBs, especially now that only assaults can have them, tho I still think giving them only to elite riflemen is a better solution. When I play germans I still prefer the MP40 just because it controls brilliantly on full auto and almost never use the MkB unless I pick one up.

 

[Ren Hoek]

Anyone who isn't completely biased will agree that the Allied team has issues. Map troubles, the impotent T-34, the team-stacking (including any player with a pinch of skill, if rumors are to be trusted), and even the uniform colors have all contributed to a pretty sad win ratio for the Allied team.

Now, with the introduction of masses of DDE Mkb 42 (H) assault rifles, the Allies are a complete joke. The obituaries are littered with nothing but Mkb icons. Anyone with decent reflexes can clear entire rooms before anyone knew what hit them...and then that same man, stepping out of a building he just laid waste to in close quarters, sees someone 150m. No worries. Press 6 for 30 round G41. It's sooo freaking good.

Unfortunately it's counterpart, the AVT, has recoil like I imagine a 50 caliber assault rifle would. And only 10 rounds. It's a worthless POS and its not up to the task. Anyone who prefers it over the Mkb is a masochist, plain and simple.

So it looks like the PPSh is going to have to carry the weight.

Now, even though every gun's handling is supposedly true-to-life, with the PPSh it's simply not the case. It's not RO1 bad, but it still has ridiculous recoil like it was a battle rifle, even when firing from the hip. High rate of fire or no, it's still spitting pistol rounds, not .3006. It doesn't need MP40 recoil, no that would be a bit much, but it needs to be toned down noticeably.

Then there's the fact that the selector switch on it is conspicuously absent. Is it an unlock? I don't know. I still can't get anyone to confirm it, so I'll count it as a rumor for now. It needs this historically accurate feature in order to have any kind of effectiveness past really short range.

And to bring up its legendary rate of fire again...it doesn't feel like it. It feels more like the rate of fire on a Thompson or something. It doesn't feel like this or this. However, since I don't know how or where to look in the files, I can't confirm this is off. It definitely doesn't feel as fast as it should to me. If it really is slower than real life, I'd guess it was done so people don't blow their 30 round load too fast, but I don't think that's really helpful.

I don't have some silly allegience to the Allied team. I'd honestly love to pick a random team (please at auto-select btw) but the way things are now, I can't do it in good conscience. I feel cheap when I play Germans outside of the few maps where the Axis are actually disadvantage. This just needs to happen. As of now, the one and only advantage in weapons the Allies have over Axis is the SVT-40 sniper scope. That's it. Everything else the Germans have is equal or better. In fact, the only advantages the Allies have in anything in the entire game over the Axis is the SVT scope, Grain Elevator, the first phase of Station, and the PPSh with drum will have 7 more bullets than the MP-40/II.

This brand new game is quickly becoming boring due to the highly predictable outcomes for every match. You need to help it. Start with the PPSh.

Exactly how I feel. I've been playing with the ppsh the most and trying to upgrade it and unlock the drum. All of my gun battles with the ppsh you get one slight click and anything more it's utterly uncontrollable and inaccurate and you're dead. Also when when there are* more than one enemy, just good luck.

MP-40s and MK's are so nice feeling and so controllable along with all the other guns in the game. Ppsh just feels much to be desired. I'd rather use AVT-40. That gun has crazy recoil like it should shooting larger rounds but it feels right and I love using it. I burst on full auto I don't play it like an svt.

Also it doesn't have it's selective fire , why? Even if it's an unlock like I've heard how come every other gun doesn't have to unlock selective fire?

It's the gun I want to use the most and the gun I loathe using the most.

 

[Graphic]

So many people completely missing the point. I don't need your advice on how to use the PPSh. I'm quite capable with it already. And I never said it was useless in its current state. It's not.

But it is not as good as it historically was, and the Mkb is much better. All I want is for them to make the PPSh closer to its real life self. More authentic, but also more balanced as a side effect.

Same thing with the AVT. I never said it was impossible to kill with it, I said it's in no way a match for the Mkb and that it sucks. Of course you can still kill people with it, but its inferior in every single way. So the only thing that can stand up to the AVT is a full realized PPSh.

These long-winded explanations on why nothing needs to change are just silly. Allies have a huge problem. It can be fixed by making the game more realistic. Why not do it? I suspect I know the motives for a lot of people but getting into that would only be disruptive. There is no logical way to argue against making the PPSh more realistic.

The defense of the T-34 is just comical. "T-34 is a hit and run tank, on Fallen Fighters you need to drive at full speed while firing on the move!" Awesome. Panzer IV can just sit there and have a damn good chance to one-shot you, too. At the ranges seen in every map besides Gumrak, both tanks should one-shot eachother nearly every shot and shooting at any side of the tank. Its not only not balanced, but its not historical, so stop shilling for it.

 

[Verluste]

There are so many MKB's in the game. How come? Its like STG44's on all maps in 1942/43... I like ROOST more on that aspect lol