Players getting more guns, Zeds staying the same?

[Deafmute]

I said I go to low difficulty servers to explain things to people, I always go medic on these servers. I've already stated numerous times its my opinion of the weapon. You think its op, I think its fine. Neither of us are right or wrong, its up to tripwire to make it the way they want it to be. Well, Jack Carver earned himself a great deal of popularity for making these weapons. I guess nobody here actually plays KF anymore, because Lippa is the only person I've seen in all of KF (actual game) who supports the points brought up here. Popular opinion on the forum is 'omg is op I don't even play KF anymore' and in game is 'I actually play KF and this is a viable option with a different strategy to use'. Oh well though - people that I play KF with like it the way it is, that is about all I know. When TWI makes the next update, we'll know whether or not all this griping, arguing, whining and complaining will have been 'worth it'.

I...what? Most of the people who have been responding to you are on my friends list, and they play KF all the time.

 

[Maddoxx]

Jesus christ you look like a mix of Utopia-Phoenix, maddox and EvilTendencies with a sprinkle of Lenny and the sperg touch of Alphaboy

And I was banned for, guess what, bashing on Maddox when he argued with everyone of this forum that the M99 wasn't overpowered

THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR

I did?

As i recall it, have not checked that thread again, i stated that i got kicked for buying M99 despite rest of the team disliking it?

 

[Maddoxx]

For those that still didn't notice, this is a forum. People are allowed to express their opinion on matters discussed on this forum. It doesn't matter if that person is a vet or a new forum member. It doesn't matter if that person is young or old. The only thing that matters is that we expect these discussions to find place in a civil tone.

Arblag is just stating his opinions on this. Can anybody tell me what's wrong with that? Or can anybody tell me why he isn't allowed?
If you can't, then behave and accept that each person has the right to express his/her own opinion as long as it's expressed civil.

And for those that love the Report button, repeating reporting someone or a thread because you just don't agree what is discussed will be looked at as making misuse of the report function and we will deal with that accordingly.



No you weren't for banned for that reason. You were banned for having multiple infractions on your account. And the last one was for posting a direct insult to an other member and that member wasn't Maddox. I strongly advice you to get your facts straight before posting. Does that sound familiar?

Really?

Wasn

 

[Amber Glass]

I guess so. Though I could never understand how some people repress that desire to have something powerful. Its a 50 caliber rifle, 50 cal bullets are massive, its meant to be rape.


No - I don't I find it funny you scour my profile to find hours but you didn't bother to see when I got the game. I've owned it since February of 2012. That will bring out a whole new arsenal of flame for you to throw at me, but oh well. Ignorance is bliss and I enjoy KF the way it is.


I said I go to low difficulty servers to explain things to people, I always go medic on these servers. I've already stated numerous times its my opinion of the weapon. You think its op, I think its fine. Neither of us are right or wrong, its up to tripwire to make it the way they want it to be. Well, Jack Carver earned himself a great deal of popularity for making these weapons. I guess nobody here actually plays KF anymore, because Lippa is the only person I've seen in all of KF (actual game) who supports the points brought up here.

In addendum. I actually just got in a game with at least 4 people here. I honestly have to say : Bravo. You've proved your point. You purposely don't play as a team just to convey your point you don't like me. Thats fine, you don't have to. Just work on your teamwork skills. Never doing public HoE again unless I'm self hosting or its a friends server. Congrats. I'm going to be the nice guy and say you win.

Popular opinion on the forum is 'omg is op I don't even play KF anymore' and in game is 'I actually play KF and this is a viable option with a different strategy to use'. Oh well though - people that I play KF with like it the way it is, that is about all I know. When TWI makes the next update, we'll know whether or not all this griping, arguing, whining and complaining will have been 'worth it'.

lmao, me and Nips_FB, who is a well known and respected KF player who participated in the community beta which made a lot of the balances you know and play with today, said that we were not going to camp the boring hall on waterworks on WAVE 1. we explained that we were going to camp the pump station, which you and the rest of your friends refused to do, so we camped in our spot like we said we were going to.

as far as my teamwork skills go, once again lmao, you are the one who does not know the meaning of teamwork considering your strategy is 4 supports in a camp spot with one entrance. teamwork is much more than spamming alt. fire and exploiting the hunting shotgun unlimited ammo glitch in one direction. if you had been camping with me and Nips, you would have seen what real teamwork looks like, and i have plenty of gameplay videos displaying how homogenous and efficiently the friends i play with work together.

 

[Deafmute]

Yeah, Amber and Nips are both fantastic team players. I've played with both of them numerous times and always enjoyed myself. Not sure how or why anyone would say they don't play as a team.

 

[Amber Glass]

not only that, but he rage quit shortly afterwards, we were not even overtly rude, i did poke fun at his opinion that the M99 was balanced, and that stacking 4 supports is a poor tactic, but other than that we were quite civil, though lippa was a bit more enthusiastic about reprimanding him for this thread.

 

[Shining Wolf]

If anything, I would like seeing TWI ship KF with an official Brute mutator, fully white-listed and touched up. Chaos is fun, and is what some of us need to keep the game fresh. But I'd much rather have the option of turning it off than it being a constant.

I'd settle for that. The issue I'm having with finding Brute games is that so few servers run that mod and I'm not sure how to search for specifically Brute and Shiver servers. If Brutes were automatically downloaded for everyone in an update for a mutator that still gave XP, then there would be many, many more servers with Brutes.

As for the M99, I'd just like to see FPs having a chance to attack after the first headshot. Maybe give them headshot resistance against the M99 while raged? That would still leave the M99 as a good weapon for softening up FPs without decapitating them.

 

[Lippa]

I'd settle for that. The issue I'm having with finding Brute games is that so few servers run that mod and I'm not sure how to search for specifically Brute and Shiver servers. If Brutes were automatically downloaded for everyone in an update for a mutator that still gave XP, then there would be many, many more servers with Brutes.

As for the M99, I'd just like to see FPs having a chance to attack after the first headshot. Maybe give them headshot resistance against the M99 while raged? That would still leave the M99 as a good weapon for softening up FPs without decapitating them.

I'm not even going to voice my opinion on Arblarg's ridiculous naivety, but for once I'll stay on topic, brutes would be a decent specimen to add to the game in concept, just not their current state (6 player head health is ridiculous for its head being completely invincible from the front until it goes to strike and it automatically goes right to the next unexpecting person in range to throw around, funny, but not right. also their frequency and pairs really need to be dimmed down to that of fp/sc.)

Now for the M99, I really couldn't have an idea that wouldn't render it useless. It's completely overpowered in it's current state. Best suggestion could be remove its reload bonus (similar to the crossbow before autobow) but what would be the point in that? you would still 1 shot scrakes which is just plain ridiculous. if they were to give the scrakes/fleshpound m99 resistance it would take 2 shots for a scrake and possibly 3 for a fleshpound, which renders the m99 basically useless compared to the autobow. As for the patriach, the M99 makes him an absolute pushover, seriously get 6 level 6 sharps and the patriach will die in 2 shots if everyone hits the second headshot in his kneeling animation. it's just overpowered. plain and simple.

 

[Arblarg]

Awesome wall of text.

Thank you for writing out something that acknowledges the fact that this game has a mod community, a difficulty plateau and everything else. Best post here and pretty much /thread. I know everybody is going to ignore your post, but so be it. I've made many of the same points you have and there is no getting through the people here. Oh well.

Bragging

Good for you. I should have left earlier once I figured out who you were, the only reason I stayed is because I had friends there. Also, you two died on your "amazing spot" despite your amazing skill. Groups of friends in KF are very hard to mess with. The fact that you have your own team and I have mine, on top of the fact that you and all the rest of your friends were hellbent on continuing the flame from this thread on me doomed everybody. Please, tell everybody the end result of that game.

not only that, but he rage quit shortly afterwards, we were not even overtly rude, i did poke fun at his opinion that the M99 was balanced, and that stacking 4 supports is a poor tactic, but other than that we were quite civil, though lippa was a bit more enthusiastic about reprimanding him for this thread.

Yeah and the whole 40 y/o man stuff, not to mention everything else (hurr durr they don't know how to FP's | scrakes). Like I said above, I should have left earlier, it was a doomed game from the start since everybody elses goal was to continue this thread on me. The lot of you has accomplished your goal : I'm staying out of public HoE servers (I'm self hosting from now on) because of the amount of elitism and bragging that goes on in it. I have plenty of friends that are willing to play this game for fun, I need not waste time with people who only care about making the game harder on everybody else and nostalgia about "how much harder it used to be". You win.

 

[wusigi_dr]

Hi guys!

Hi guys!

Because someone told me to post this. If offended I'm sorry, but if u laugh and simmer down, enjoy.

Waiting... - Mitch's First/Final Words [Spoiler Ending.] - YouTube

 

[Trashed]

Fact is, Sharpie never needed the reload buff. Sure, M99 is fairly OP and even without the reload it was OP too. I just don't see why Sharp got a reload buff to his weapons in the first place.

 

[Amber Glass]

Thank you for writing out something that acknowledges the fact that this game has a mod community, a difficulty plateau and everything else. Best post here and pretty much /thread. I know everybody is going to ignore your post, but so be it. I've made many of the same points you have and there is no getting through the people here. Oh well.


Good for you. I should have left earlier once I figured out who you were, the only reason I stayed is because I had friends there. Also, you two died on your "amazing spot" despite your amazing skill. Groups of friends in KF are very hard to mess with. The fact that you have your own team and I have mine, on top of the fact that you and all the rest of your friends were hellbent on continuing the flame from this thread on me doomed everybody. Please, tell everybody the end result of that game.


Yeah and the whole 40 y/o man stuff, not to mention everything else (hurr durr they don't know how to FP's | scrakes). Like I said above, I should have left earlier, it was a doomed game from the start since everybody elses goal was to continue this thread on me. The lot of you has accomplished your goal : I'm staying out of public HoE servers (I'm self hosting from now on) because of the amount of elitism and bragging that goes on in it. I have plenty of friends that are willing to play this game for fun, I need not waste time with people who only care about making the game harder on everybody else and nostalgia about "how much harder it used to be". You win.

lmao what? i didnt say anything about "40 y/o man stuff", some of my friends are in their 30s, whats wrong with gaming at an older age? i dont understand why you felt so threatened by my presence, nor do i understand what you mean by me "bragging" i do not consider myself a good player by any means, i am lucky to have such friends that have taught me so much, and have had so many good experiences with.

and yes, we did wipe, am i supposed to be too afraid or ashamed to admit that? we wipe all the time when we play, thats half the fun knowing you're not always going to win. thats why we dont camp the easiest spots on the map with 4 supports and a medic, we play for fun, not for achievements. i think its funny that you speak about difficulty when you use exploits and OP perk stacking to win your games, so clearly you want the easiest time possible, which is probably why you consider the OP stick fine. i mentioned your thread once, and left it at that, i cannot speak for lippa, but me and nips were nothing but good natured.

 

[Maddoxx]

Those who feel seriously about this issue might want to take the time to read this entire post, despite its length:

This issue has been around for a while, but one factor people don't take into account is that there may be more weapons (which may be overpowered), but this does not necessarily require the inclusion of a new Zed or a Zed difficulty increase.

Weapons can be chosen in the Trader; the Zeds you play against cannot (unless it's a mutator), so those who clamor for a new Zed in the vanilla game are asking for something that once intoduced becomes a constant, rather than a variable.

Coming from a HoE veteran, HoE was definitely made easier by the inclusion of the M99 and similar weapons; any weapon that can one-shot an enemy like a Fleshpound does take away some of the teamwork challenge required to play the game the way it was intended as a CO-OP game.

Then again, this does not mean you have to use these weapons.

If you play in a group (which I heartily recommend as opposed to pub games) and you play with like-minded people, then don't use weapons you consider to be overpowered. If you insist on playing in pub games, I would welcome anyone with examples of public games in which teams actually manage to win Hell On Earth with enough consistency to warrant calling the game "easy" due to the newly introduced weapons.

As a matter of fact until the recent introduction of the new weapons, one of the most complained-about aspects of the game was that it was too hard due to pub match players having no clue about what they were doing and ruining games (the now-stereotyped Level 0 on Suicidal or HoE). If these overpowered weapons made pub matches "easier", I would consider this kind of thing welcoming.

Then again, if you're a group player like me, you have little excuse for rallying against weaponry that's overpowered when you and your team can simply refrain from using it.

The proposed solution of a new Zed would require a rebalance on all fronts, and would not take into account the fact that some people have a hard enough time playing as is. The Brute can be a pain on all difficulty levels, mostly due to its behavior. It's definitely a fun challenge (I tend to enjoy the occasional Brute game), but as others have stated, it can be a very annoying enemy. Reference my previous post for a more in-depth look at how this new Zed might effect gameplay:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1104084&postcount=112

Of course, you can have whatever opinion of the situation you like: you may hate the Brute, you may love it, but that personal preference should be cast aside when considering a change that will effect the entire playerbase.

Here's a solution for those who have a problem with the current situation:

Group Players
1) Refrain from using weapons you think are overpowered and ask your team to do the same.
2) If you like the Brute, favorite a server that has it or ask your clan/group to introduce it on their servers (preferably with a vote option).

Pub Players
1) Try actually winning HoE in a pub match first.

2) Create new challenges for yourself by using less powerful weaponry.

The great thing about Killing Floor is the amount of choice you have when it comes to how you approach winning games (and indeed how hard you want to make it on yourself). If the game's becoming too easy, don't fault the devs, the game or other players; try making it harder on yourself first. Again, there are plenty of ways to increase challenge for yourself without calling for weapon nerfs or harder Zeds. Here are just a few ideas that can reinvigorate the game if you've grown weary and need more challenge:

1) Run your worst perk with your least favorite weapons.
2) If option 1 is undesirable, try running HoE with your favorite perk reset to Level 1 by using the Perk Replacement mutator.

3) Play with Friendly Fire set to %100.
4) Play with the Bleed Out mutator
5) Play with the Impossible mutator.

If none of the above appeal to you, you're on your own. The game has enough in how it's designed to ensure that the difficulty range is practically limitless. If you still have issues regarding the game being "easy", it becomes evident how little you're willing to go out of your own way to make the game enjoyably challenging for yourself. There are plenty of options out there that can make this game a formidable challenge for even the most seasoned gamer. You just have to have a little imagination.

My younger brother plays on a server with +6 players and i laugh often: the team dies a lot ( max 20 players ). One main reason is "Bosstime" EVERY wave.

Like wave 1: after killing all zeds, you might get Bosstime with 8 zeds that have improved abilities and a lot of increased health ( stalker and crawlers, as an example ). I see my brother

 

[Splatpope]

Because someone told me to post this. If offended I'm sorry, but if u laugh and simmer down, enjoy.

Waiting... - Mitch's First/Final Words [Spoiler Ending.] - YouTube

is that alphaboy

Also my last words on this thread (**** the video is about me in fact ) would be that someone didn't get that this is general discussion about the vanilla game, mutator discussion is down 5 sections

 

["<3"]

How many of the people posting on this thread have more than one perk at level 6? I'd guess that its almost all if not all. Having the M99 in the game as it is isnt just about you and the people who play on HoE. What about the level 1 and 2's that play normal and hard, do they one hit kill scrakes and fleshpounds like the stats your showing? I don't know whether they do or not but remember that not everyone has classes at higher levels. I saw people saying Arblarg having 500 hours isn't very much, what percent of killing floor players have over 500? The M99 is in the game for now so deal with it, if TWI nerfs it then it will happen just play with friends or with mutators for now. I'm just adding another perspective to this thread.



Remember this is a discussion, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

<3

 

[Shining Wolf]

Fact is, Sharpie never needed the reload buff. Sure, M99 is fairly OP and even without the reload it was OP too. I just don't see why Sharp got a reload buff to his weapons in the first place.

This as well. I'm still absolutely dumbfounded that the Sharp even got a reload buff on the Xbow. It was totally fine before, if not a bit OP because of the Scrake stunning. Now that process is even faster.

If FPs got an M99 resistance while raged or something and Patty somehow got some sort of change to not make him cake with the M99, then I'd be okay with that gun one shotting Scrakes. CB + something else loadouts would be giving more versatility than M99 loadouts already do (default pistol still can't deal with trash as well as other classes), and M99 would just instagib Scrakes and would take care of Husks and Sirens one at a time. So, basically, M99 would 1 shot Scrakes and would take 3 for FP, which would still allow it to rage.

M99 does ridiculous body shot damage, though. Tone that down as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to body shot Sirens with it.

 

[Aze]

To all of you fighting in this thread: Please chill out? Neither Arblarg NOR the "elites" of this thread are right. The M99 is neither completely balanced (as Arblarg states) nor is it "extremely OP" (as you other guys say)

The ONLY real problem the weapon has is its fast reload speed. I've said it before and i will say it again: Reduce the BASE RELOAD SPEED of both the M99 (to 4 sec) and the Xbow (to 2,4 sec), but let the weapons still benefit from the Sharpshooter's reload speed bonus (Putting them down to 2,5 and 1,5 second reload speed respectively). There is no need to change their power nor to change the resistance of any specimen.

The problem with you "extreme elitists" are that you are always WAY too emotional with your opinions. Berserker is too overpowered? NERF IT TO CRAP! Support is too overpowered? NERF IT TO OBLIVION! The M99 is too overpowered? MAKE IT A CRAPSTICK!
People like you are the ones that ALWAYS overdo things, and that are way too biased in your opinions. (And Amber: 500 hours is not much time spent for one single game? Umm... what? )

About the M99, remember: You only have 25 shots! You will ONLY be really helpful against Fleshpounds and Scrakes with it. I tried using it for Sirens and Husks as well (6-man HoE game, as the only Sharpie). I ran out of ammo doing that. So yeah, how is that overpowered? You niche yourself as the heavykiller. The 9mm will only be able to assist a bit with trash yes, but medium specimen will be a problem.
Sure, it overshadows the LAW quite a bit, but that isn't so much the M99 being extremely overpowered as the LAW is a little underpowered (as well as the Sharpshooter still having pistols in its perk too). Sure, the LAW isn't as great against the big ones (it could need a bit of a boost in damage), but it clears EVERYTHING around its point of impact as well! The M99, if used only for the Scrakes and Fleshpounds, you need to aim really high, making it very hard to take out additional enemies along with them.

M99 does ridiculous body shot damage, though. Tone that down as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to body shot Sirens with it.

Sorry, but 100% disagreed. It's an anti-materiel rifle using a .50 BMG round, meant to be shot at TANKS! Sure, weapons etc don't have to be 100% realistic in a game, but some immersion needs to stay. Why would a scrawny little Siren be able to resist an anti-tank rifle?

 

[Spicy]

The problem with you "extreme elitists" are that you are always WAY too emotional with your opinions. Berserker is too overpowered? NERF IT TO CRAP! Support is too overpowered? NERF IT TO OBLIVION! The M99 is too overpowered? MAKE IT A CRAPSTICK!
People like you are the ones that ALWAYS overdo things, and that are way too biased in your opinions. (And Amber: 500 hours is not much time spent for one single game? Umm... what? )

Pretty much nails it. KF is some pretty srs pve bsns.

 

[Left 4 Dinner]

Well I have a minor suggestion for slightly nerfing it, without really having too much of a good or bad impact. The current ideas brought p are as follows:

• Reduce reload speed (ignore sharpy's reload bonus)
• Reduce reload speed (sharpy's reload buff applies, thus making it reload slightly faster)
• Lower overall damage
• Lower headshot damage
• Lower bodyshot damage
• Smaller ammo pool
• Zed resistance to M99
• Higher price for M99
• Higher price for M99 ammo

Now, heres two suggestions that Ive thought of, that would slighty nerf it so that players who are good with it will be pushed with a bit more of a challenge, while new players will still find it viable. My two suggestions are to make it a bit slower to scope/unscope and make it so that the M99 can not be fire when unscoped. My idea for this, basically comes from how the M99 is compared to the L.A.W. and we all know that the LAW can not fire when unscoped. Well, if the M99 can not fire when unscoped, it would require people to slow down and scope a target, before firing. This forces players to stand still or walk very slowly in order to land a shot. As for the slow scoping/unscoping, this would encourage players to think before scoping and prevent people from no-scoping targets.

Now, I forget if the M99 automatically zooms back out after a successful shot, so if it does, then that should prove to make sniping with it a bit more challenging, due to the amount of time it takes to zoom in and zoom out.

 

[Splatpope]

I'm going to get shouted at, but...

Just remove the IJC pack and admit it was a bad idea to implement it.