My thoughts on Yoshiro's Steam post (post title modified by Yoshiro)

[DMN666]

Im just gonna throw my 2 cents and make it short

I want to actually test things. This is the point of EA. I dont mind getting weapons or maps that have no textures or are a rough concept of what is planned. So long as it will be fixed as we go along. At lease 3 days of testing future content every month.
Zedconomy - I bought every DLC in KF to support TW, and i know exactly what it is im getting. I dont want to gamble nor do i want to purchase items from some random user. I dont want to profit the user, i want to profit TW.
Also... where be the mutator support.

There are also minor things that bug me like no-fun Hans, Zerks, Big zed roars, radio like music playset, and that butt sticking out animation thing.

 

[mrnok14l]

pay 2.5 dolars for a random battle scared weapon?? no thanks!!

You nailed it - without mentioning the worse the condition is the more it looks like someone intentionally destroyed the finishes randomly and carelessly - rather than it being wearing off at the focused areas where the most frictions happened from regular uses.

 

[eckojay]

Im just gonna throw my 2 cents and make it short

I want to actually test things. This is the point of EA. I dont mind getting weapons or maps that have no textures or are a rough concept of what is planned. So long as it will be fixed as we go along. At lease 3 days of testing future content every month.
Zedconomy - I bought every DLC in KF to support TW, and i know exactly what it is im getting. I dont want to gamble nor do i want to purchase items from some random user. I dont want to profit the user, i want to profit TW.
Also... where be the mutator support.

There are also minor things that bug me like no-fun Hans, Zerks, Big zed roars, radio like music playset, and that butt sticking out animation thing.

I totally agree with this, I would be totally happy with testing and discussing unfinished content if it meant we could playtest early builds and have some input.

However Yoshiro has stated time and time again that Tripwire is not interested in releasing anything that could be considered unfinished and refuse to show or discuss anything that isn't close to finished. I don't think this is a good approach to early access or game development in general, in fact I think it's going to be detrimental to the game.

Tripwire are notoriously stubborn about things so don't waste your breath asking them to change their policy on this.

 

[Ydiss]

i dont think that zedconomy didnt take ANY ressources to make, be it hiring the people for, spending time for it or whatever any reason.
the people they hired for or the time they spent for it, could go to other thinks( i assume its art designer who made this) they could improve some graphical concepts like new zed designs or weapon quality ( for example the double barrel looking like chrome) or some other changes and items.
thats what i think would be from economic sights of twi. prove me wrong if its false. thank you.

The purpose of zedconomy is to generate funds, ignoring the game play benefit (some people like cosmetics). Tw have confirmed the development of zedconomy is sourced through separate developers from everything else. Yes, they will cost money. But cosmetic monetisation is a tried and tested way to make money. And Tw wouldn't do it if it didn't make more money than it cost to develop.

The net result is Tw making money (again, ignoring the benefit of the players who enjoy buying cosmetics, who will be happy because they get to change their look).

Now I don't have a quote to confirm this but I believe the profit from zedconomy, or a portion of it, goes towards the development of the game. As I said, it's only positive.

Oh and I guess Tw get to actually make some money too. Because, you know, they don't do this as a charity and deserve to make a living from their hard work.

And there, I believe, lies the problem. Some people just don't seem to feel good about a developer making money. Some people don't like the idea that a successful developer deserves to actually get as much fiscal support as possible. Not when they perceive all of their personal issues with the game are somehow directly tied to zedconomy. And, of course, their solution to the slow development speed would be to cut a source of income out...

I think it's a truly short sighted perspective. Thankfully, these people aren't developing the game.

 

[FoolishNinja]

i dont mind adding this kind of thinks, but having it as a higher priority than anything else is my problem.
abd paying 2,5$ for a random skin too much.
community market is expensive too, due to the small community and the forge system they added makes no sense. you get only 2drops each week and you always drop an usb

 

[Ydiss]

i dont mind adding this kind of thinks, but having it as a higher priority than anything else is my problem.
abd paying 2,5$ for a random skin too much.
community market is expensive too, due to the small community and the forge system they added makes no sense. you get only 2drops each week and you always drop an usb

I agree on one point. I'm much less inclined to pay money for a random "prize". This aspect I don't understand. It's surely much better if we can just shop for exactly the items we want.

I've paid money to other games for skins (not an insubstantial amount of money) because I get the skins I really want. But I'm not going to do it for a random skin and it does feel a bit off that I'm basically taking part in a weekly lottery for skins.

 

[RedPk]

that is the main point of this post
that TW understand that we want to test things. for that reasong io buy the EA, to see things evolving, not just things done
we want to be testers, we want to test things and discuse it with TW to make it better

 

[Hellmeat]

I had some extra $$ in my Steam Wallet, and I bought some crates and keys. To be honest I regret it. It felt gimick-y, cash-grabby, and not in the "sprit" of what I thought KF2 was going to be. Totally my opinion, of course, but there it is.

And for the record the Zedconomy left a very negative impression on me for what I thought TWI was about and how they regard their customers, especially people who bought into the EA to support them in the first place. I thought I would be a part of shaping KF2, instead I feel like I've bought an episodic game that's not finished and periodically gets updates and a feeling that the features I was excited about might not even make it into the game.

I've always said I enjoyed KF2, and I don't regret buying it, but I won't buy into another TWI Early Access title in the future. I also rarely play anymore for a number of reason, the biggest being I'm tired of getting a Headband and a USB Key I will never open =/

 

[Cheeki Breeki]

Three things I'd like to ask :
- I didn't follow recently : what is zedeconomy? And as a whole, since i'm not used to the term, what are microtransactions?
- Are people considering the perk trees are badly designed? Where does that come from?
- why not have cosmetic packs like in KF1? People wanting the skin would pay, those who don't care wouldn't

My main concern, and throughout the forum i've seen other people behind concerned about it, is how slow the updates are made. I mean the core content of the game isn't out yet (9 classes), and the game has been in early acess forever. I mean a class every 6 months is ridiculous...

 

[Rocker Fox]

Holy tldr man.

Yeah, lot of ideas, i guess TL;Dr would be this if a bit simplistic:

-Tripwire needs to work on community input. Instead of taking a lot community suggestions from the ground up (such as for perks and microtransactions) it looks like all they are doing is damage control. Doing the above could have avoided having to redo zerk and demo as well as possibly having to now redo sharpshooter if the perk tree that was leaked is still current.

-The game does not exist in a vacuum and will get compared to other games, that is why you saw the large backlash with microtransactions and is why people have a lot of other complaints. Asking someone to trust tripwire on rep alone and dismissing all outside criticism is hurting the game, not helping. We should instead be asking if we would let the same things go if it were any other EA game.

 

[HunBonus]

It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone, particularly these days, is offended by cosmetic monetisation. It has no downsides. At all.

I'm not even going to start ranting about completionism, because I've come to term with the fact that 100% is impossible now, that experience is no longer available. I would just like to remind you that some time ago, I was actively here and would have started debating with you about the downsides.

 

[xmrmeow]

spending ressources on cosmetics, thus having slower updates.

Aren't like all the cosmetics made by players except like 3 in the shop?


Also for the 10 trillionth time, there are different staff handling each part of a new update. Obviously they aren't pulling people off the gameplay programming team to make cosmetics. Whoever still has work to do on the new update is working at full speed regardless of what other things are being done on the side.



Also cosmetics don't have a downside. There are three options:

• you get specific paid cosmetic packs like the last game (pay 10 bucks for like 4 weapon skins)
• crate system where you get random cosmetics from a crate (upside from option one is it is more profitable so you get a lot more cosmetic options, downside is they're random and you don't always get the ones you want)
• No cosmetics.

Including them free with the game is not an option because they won't continue to develop content if they won't make money off of it.

Imagine the game like a house. TW is the company that makes your house. They construct the house and give it to you then leave, and if you pay them, they can come back and make expansions to your house, landscaping, make you a nice fence, build you some furniture, etc. If you don't pay them, they don't come back, end of story. If a construction company won't build you extra stuff for your house after they finish the initial house unless you pay them, then a game company won't give you cosmetics unless you pay them to.

 

[Rocker Fox]

Imagine the game like a house. TW is the company that makes your house. They construct the house and give it to you then leave, and if you pay them, they can come back and make expansions to your house, landscaping, make you a nice fence, build you some furniture, etc. If you don't pay them, they don't come back, end of story. If a construction company won't build you extra stuff for your house after they finish the initial house unless you pay them, then a game company won't give you cosmetics unless you pay them to.

Bad thing to compare it to a house for several big reasons: They are trying to hang drapes when the windows haven't been put in yet and decided to install a hot tub into the deck before the main plumbing and heating are finished. This is especially a problem when you paid for the house and your were promised that they estimated the main parts of your house would be done by now only to come back and find out they are doing side projects you never ordered and are now adding to the bill.

When asking about it you get the reply of "well, we need to get the window guy to come by and do that but we had the interior decorator come in to the drapes for now" and when asking about the hot tub they say "well, we couldn't get that plumbing guy in but we got this guy to come in and give you a hot tub, isn't that cool?" which leads to to wonder when or if my hose will ever actually be finished or if it has turned into a interior design project showcase instead of a house. On top of that the windows that are coming in are now church windows because the people building your house didn't tell you and just went with their own idea.

 

[Jr175]

Three things I'd like to ask :
- I didn't follow recently : what is zedeconomy? And as a whole, since i'm not used to the term, what are microtransactions?

Look at team fortress 2's in game shop/drop/crafting system as a good example. Probably a copy paste but I'll leave that up to you to decide. Microtransactions are purchases that happen inside of the game to generate additional revenue or in some cases the only revenue some games make.

- Are people considering the perk trees are badly designed? Where does that come from?

Have you played this game and maxed out any/all of your perks? If so have you ever asked yourself if you would ever run a different perk setup in the skill trees? If the answer is no then you can understand one reason why people look down on the designs.

- why not have cosmetic packs like in KF1? People wanting the skin would pay, those who don't care wouldn't

I don't know why and I can't read minds but it's probably because one is overall more profitable than the other.

 

[Ydiss]

that is the main point of this post
that TW understand that we want to test things. for that reasong io buy the EA, to see things evolving, not just things done
we want to be testers, we want to test things and discuse it with TW to make it better

It wasn't clear in the op that the complaint was about the fact that it's a random weapon. And a lot of people complaining about the cash shop do so on the basis that it takes development time away from the game.

The latter is not only false but a flawed argument.

However, I do agree that paying any amount of money for a random item doesn't make any commercial sense whatsoever, when it's the only option we have.

If it must be this way then I suggest a lower asking price for a random selection (for those who are happy to pay a small amount of money and don't mind it being random) and the current asking price for our pick of whatever normal skin we want, with a premium price (say 1.75x the current price) for rare skins.

 

[Lord Exor]

At no point did I say we are making something bad. I was asked in that thread for some situations where we feel we made mistakes during development that we have learned from and I listed some.

As for unpolished content we still do not feel this is the right way to go about things (but we have learned that we could not set the perception of what our version of early access would be - we will apply this towards to future) but we have decoupled related items such as bug fixes and balance changes from content updates to produce faster updates for the community.

We are continuing to iterate on the Zedconomy and Trading floor both based on player input and stats about how players are actively using the systems. While we have several ideas for changes here nothing is set in stone yet so I can't speak to them at this time.

Thank you for that--decoupling the major content updates from bug fixes and balance changes. If only Valve did the same with their own games.

 

[BookPony]

I understand everyone's worrys about ea and micro transactions both are infamous in gaming history but nobody works at Tripwire and any games anyone here has made does not hold a a candle to Kf2.

IMO anyone who complains about the things Tripwire are doing with Kf2 are extremely disrespectful. They are making this game for all of us. They need the money in order to make the game and keep employees making that game. What I have learned from the recent posts on the Kf2 forums recently is that it's very easy to throw around insults and make assumptions when not knowing a thing in the first place.

 

[weeman2412]

I understand everyone's worrys about ea and micro transactions both are infamous in gaming history but nobody works at Tripwire and any games anyone here has made does not hold a a candle to Kf2.

I don't need to be a chef to tell a chef that his food is crap, nor do I need to be a game developer to judge his/her development cycle and work ethics.

IMO anyone who complains about the things Tripwire are doing with Kf2 are extremely disrespectful.

You are the kind of people that just accept garbage from corporations out of respect for a nameless entity. I believe they call this sheep mentality. Yes Tripwire is in fact a corporation.

They are making this game for all of us. They need the money in order to make the game and keep employees making that game.

Is this suppose to be a joke? They already have our money and are dragging their heels on their summer vacation yacht and pax east instead of putting development time in to the game.

What I have learned from the recent posts on the Kf2 forums recently is that it's very easy to throw around insults and make assumptions when not knowing a thing in the first place.

Are you implying that you know more than any other consumer playing Killing Floor 2? Calm down with your giant ego, I can assure you that you are as clueless as the rest of us.

 

[Rocker Fox]

I understand everyone's worrys about ea and micro transactions both are infamous in gaming history but nobody works at Tripwire and any games anyone here has made does not hold a a candle to Kf2.

IMO anyone who complains about the things Tripwire are doing with Kf2 are extremely disrespectful. They are making this game for all of us. They need the money in order to make the game and keep employees making that game. What I have learned from the recent posts on the Kf2 forums recently is that it's very easy to throw around insults and make assumptions when not knowing a thing in the first place.

It's also very easy to be an apologist and act like nothing is wrong. Whenever i see someone say the "you didn't make a game like this so you can't say anything" i shake my head, trying to act like you need to be a game dev to call someone on making bad decisions or make an informed comment on development, especially in an EA title is the last bastion of people who have no more points to make.

I consider trying to sit there and chalk many of the valid complaints up to whining and saying that they are "disrespectful to tripwire" is not only in itself disrespectful to the community but delusional at best and downright toxic at worst. When things arn't going right you don't just sit back and act like nothing is wrong, that is how you end up with a train wreck on your hands. Not to mention a lot of people put a lot of time into making theses suggestions as well as making comments and for those people's sakes i honestly hope no game dev holds your view of criticism.

On top of that tripwire has stated on many, many occasions that RO2/RS pretty much fully funded the development of KF2 and any money from KF2 (purchases or MTs). According to tripwire, money isn't going to that as the KF2 development is already funded and considering everyone already paid just to get the game microtrasactions seem amazingly unnecessary unless tripwire were not being straight with us about where the money is going or how well the game did.

 

[BookPony]

Yes I am being whiny but I was just (trying) to say what I wanted to. Although I did not know that Rs/RO2 had funded Kf2. But this is the last time I comment on one of these threads if this all it has to offer because I honestly don't see the point in them. Its like someone got the idea that if you yell at devs with insults about there games then they will make it faster. I say let them take it slow and not try to rush it into some horrible rushed buggy game. But hey that's just me. I don't make up the whole community.