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My thoughts on Yoshiro's Steam post (post title modified by Yoshiro)

RedPk

Grizzled Veteran
May 6, 2012
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well, since year ago we started to have some problems with TW cause lots of things

*Zedeconomy
*long time till updates
there are a lot more but to be honest i dont want to write all of them

i know that yoshiro admits that TW are making something bad, and we have to admin that Comunity are making things wrong too

http://steamcommunity.com/app/232090/discussions/0/368542844480552841/?tscn=1460903051#p1

so this post is try to found a balance

what i mean with balance?? a way to just stop this cause dont have more sense enymore


zedconomy is a money grab and we all know that, TW need money and we want new perks
i dont like zedconomy, pay 2.5 dolars for a random battle scared weapon?? no thanks!!
2.5 dolars for a mint random weapon... maybe. but it make more sense

KF is actually on EA and what that means?? that comunity are testers!!
TW want to land a update full fixed but i think is not that way
we want to play it, we want to test it, and we want to say what is wrong or right with the new update, the game is for us, just let us test all the updates. that will make updates every 2-3 months no 4-5 months
the first update(incinerate n detonate) was a update with a beta first, that is a great idea!!



i think this is a way to fix some problems that we actually have
 
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At no point did I say we are making something bad. I was asked in that thread for some situations where we feel we made mistakes during development that we have learned from and I listed some.

As for unpolished content we still do not feel this is the right way to go about things (but we have learned that we could not set the perception of what our version of early access would be - we will apply this towards to future) but we have decoupled related items such as bug fixes and balance changes from content updates to produce faster updates for the community.

We are continuing to iterate on the Zedconomy and Trading floor both based on player input and stats about how players are actively using the systems. While we have several ideas for changes here nothing is set in stone yet so I can't speak to them at this time.
 
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Zedconomy is a test feature, which is why they put it in EA. I personally like the new system for cosmetics. Since they are more profitable, they make more of them, meaning I as a player have more options to choose from when it comes to customizing my characters. Of course on the other hand, them being more profitable means a lot of cosmetics cost more.


Supply crates have a pretty good turnout in terms of item value compared to crate value, while USBs do not (you have a much higher chance of getting stuff that will pay off your crate+key from a crate compared to a usb), so the crate system I think is fine, but USBs I'm not a fan of the quality of items cause the turnout is really low (9/10 times you'll get something from a USB that is worth <$3.00. Most of the time <$1.00 in fact). I don't know if they'll change USBs giving different quality items (I hope they do), but if not, I'll just stick to only buying crates and using the money I make from those to buy the mint weapon skins I want.


Updates take so long because TW wants to make things super polished on release and that takes a lot of time.


Everything you said I can't understand at all; your English is really...bad...
 
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mate nobody is making you buy them .
ps if ur in with 2.5$ im + 25euro :D :D
and about the zedcomy you need to Evolve not copy valve mistakes .
make the people play for their weapons not wonder around lose and get drop . make them feel they accoplish something craft / parts creating something
 
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spending ressources on cosmetics, thus having slower updates.

I'm sorry, but this argument is ridiculous. Different teams do different things, so the art team making skins does not necessarily affect how quickly maps or perks come out.

I understand people being upset by longer content creation times, but that doesn't mean we should jump to conclusions. TWI is certainly not the first company to implement this kind of system, and they won't be the last, because it's a fair way for the developers to offer more content and make more money from their game without demanding anything from the customer to stay up-to-date with everybody else (Like DLC or map packs).
 
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spending ressources on cosmetics, thus having slower updates.

agree
that is the most important point of why people hate zedconomy

*sigh* good god...how many times does it have to be repeated that new skins and cosmetics are COMMUNITY MADE ...

The amount of awful and i mean just absolutely AWFUL comments that get hurled at the developers on this forum is just absolutely utterly disgusting.

Yes, every update isn't perfect...yes updates have been slow. Yoshiro I have to say you got more patience than i certainly have, i would have lost my rag several times and then some by this point.

This is a AAA quality level game being made by a TINY studio. I might reccomend some of you give high quality game making a go at some point. I've watched my flatmate slave for hours over his projects to get the simplest of things to work, its not easy.

Now yes people will say "its their job...blablabla". Yes but again things take TIME to do and to do them well it takes MORE time.

And RedPk how absolutely god damn dare you twist words like that. I know Yoshrio and the team can certainly stick up for themselves but I've actually had enough, enough of this constant hateful and practically viscous and smarmy remarks because you don't like the first thing which

A is COMPLETELY optional (and tbh the idea of people getting paid for their work. good. they finally deserve to be recognised),

and B you will just have to fricken wait.

Now do I like waiting for updates. Of course not nobody does but tough. Go play something else, there are plenty of other games to keep you happy while you wait... *Endofrant*
 
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*sigh* good god...how many times does it have to be repeated that new skins and cosmetics are COMMUNITY MADE ...

The amount of awful and i mean just absolutely AWFUL comments that get hurled at the developers on this forum is just absolutely utterly disgusting.

Yes, every update isn't perfect...yes updates have been slow. Yoshiro I have to say you got more patience than i certainly have, i would have lost my rag several times and then some by this point.

This is a AAA quality level game being made by a TINY studio. I might reccomend some of you give high quality game making a go at some point. I've watched my flatmate slave for hours over his projects to get the simplest of things to work, its not easy.

Now yes people will say "its their job...blablabla". Yes but again things take TIME to do and to do them well it takes MORE time.

And RedPk how absolutely god damn dare you twist words like that. I know Yoshrio and the team can certainly stick up for themselves but I've actually had enough, enough of this constant hateful and practically viscous and smarmy remarks because you don't like the first thing which

A is COMPLETELY optional (and tbh the idea of people getting paid for their work. good. they finally deserve to be recognised),

and B you will just have to fricken wait.

Now do I like waiting for updates. Of course not nobody does but tough. Go play something else, there are plenty of other games to keep you happy while you wait... *Endofrant*

all the cosmetics are not comunity made
 
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Red, there are so many people saying what you are saying, its been debunked so many damn times. I've read several threads where Yoshiro says the same thing repeatedly... The devs who work on Zedconomy, don't work on gameplay stuff... they keep the whole team busy, with different stuff, at the same time. So that people aren't sitting at their desks with nothing to do.

These threads make me want to scream at someone, they have told you people time and time again zedconomy didn't use the gameplay programmers etc etc etc, it doesn't affect it! Move on!
 
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Can i at least post my thoughts on this since it's actually part of my post that got this ball rolling? yes? ok then.

Part of my original comment was mainly directed at the many, many people who will sit there, cross their arms and wonder "omg, why steam has so many negative reviews, why is it that people are the mad and teh butthurt?"

After posting two replies that summed up how a lot of people felt and explained where a lot of resentment came from someone made a comment about early access done right and people asking too much, which lead me to the reply you see on the steam post before Yoshiro's reply.

Part of what made me make this post lies in two problems im seeing with KF2 at the moment, not so great community interaction and acting like KF2 and it's development exists in vacuum.

For starters many, and i mean many, of the problems that people are bringing up could have be easily avoided if the community was involved from jump. Many of the ideas for micro transactions involved using something similar to the KF 1 store, instead we got the TF2 system down to the letter. I'm not bringing up hyperbole or making grand stand statements, this is exactly what it is to the letter.

Crates, random drops, keys, scrapping items and everything is just the same and since so many of those systems are in place and have good examples i and many others, especially considering how good tripwire is with coming up with concepts have no idea why this apparently needed to be tested since it is literally a page for page copy with very little alteration.

The same problem with with zerk, demo and the now leaked sharp tree, no community input from the look of it only internal ideas, no one else gets to look at it until it's done and changes would be difficult to be made, gets released, 80-90% of the community hates it, now needs a total rework which takes even more time and resources.

This model of development is a problem and needs to stop, it's not sustainable in the long run and having to completely redo something because most people hate it is not sustainable in the long run. There are a lot of post i see that seem to get no real input from devs such as the pretty good sharpshooter tree by Kothre and a lot of other neat ideas in the ideas and suggestion boards. Meanwhile whenever there is a criticism against tripwire or something perceived as an attack not only do the devs take notice but it seems many people who never post on anything else come out of the woodwork as well. Hate to be that guy but that is really how it looks, it looks like many of the ideas don't matter and instead what matters is damage control.

Now explaining the vacuum comment, i mentioned that in the same thread about part of the reason why MTs weren't received well and part of it is the fact that it was released at the same time as Payday 2's ones as well as when the EA lid was getting blown off for bad titles not keeping their promises. Even though both those things were happening at the same time it was released and the amount backlash was not taken into account to the proper degree. Part of this comment also comes down to player reaction and general comments about the development with a general sentiment of ignoring problems instead of accepting them and attempting to amend them which makes me restate this question.

If this was any other developer would you be ok with this?

That is something important to look at, KF2 doesn't exist in a world where this is the only game, there are many games in EA and people are going to compare the two and i think it's a majorly important thing to sit back and consider the outside perspective. Yes, we all know tripwire has a long standing history of good games, RO 1, 2, rising storm, KF1, and we know this history but really ask yourself a few questions and step back from that.

Would it not look sketchy if a EA game released microtransactions when the core content wasn't done considering the history of other EA games and what they have done?

Would you not question where things were going if new things were being released while other things previously released remain broken?

How long is acceptable in your eyes between each update for the average EA game?

How involved should the developer be with the community in relation to other EA titles?

Again, im not saying this to say KF2 is a bad game but it's a serious question to ask and i feel one that should be considered. Do you pass KF2 and tripwire on many things that you would bash another EA developer for?

I didn't make that post or make this post because i want to rant about the game, say i hate everything about it, turn people against the devs or make people upset, it's because im honestly concerned. I don't see where the path is going and it's going further and further away from the set goals and my travel partner, in this case tripwire, seems to be getting more and more quiet as the path becomes less defined. I love a lot of things about KF2 and want it to do well, i want it to thrive and a lot of other people, even those who can't word their responses as well, want it to do well as well because we are all in this boat together.

Trust me, if I or others really didn't care then we would just stop posting and write it off as another failure, trust me, not the first game i would have done it with and probably wouldn't have been the last. The thing is i made that post because i don't want it to get to that point and i don't want people to look at the steam community as just whiners and shun them until they eventually go away. I don't want KF2 to be one of those grand projects that eventually fails or stagnates that people look back on and go "hey, remember when we used to care about that game? Shame that everyone gave up on it"
 
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i dont think that zedconomy didnt take ANY ressources to make, be it hiring the people for, spending time for it or whatever any reason.
the people they hired for or the time they spent for it, could go to other thinks( i assume its art designer who made this) they could improve some graphical concepts like new zed designs or weapon quality ( for example the double barrel looking like chrome) or some other changes and items.
thats what i think would be from economic sights of twi. prove me wrong if its false. thank you.
 
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