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Beta Map [MAP]TE-Coldsteel

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#462
In my opinion the average players don't need to do anything more then download an update and play it. This will give custom maps easy acces.

In another post I asked how to deal with cooking custom maps with additional custom packages.

I think giving the packages a different name with an update will solve crashes. And I guess thats what I'm gonna do next update so people can join without crashing.

It's 6 AM here or what ? :IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 
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#466
MeatEtr said:
So how do we clear the caches so we can play this map?
Click to expand...

Go to C:\Users\***username***\Documents\My Games\RedOrchestra2\ROGame\Cache

If you look within the .ini file you'll see the custom files associated to a particular map.

30A7B37245A758AC483EC2844835B2E2=Env_DR_floor_parts

So then look in the folder above for the file with same GUID and delete it.

30A7B37245A758AC483EC2844835B2E2.uxx

Do this for all the files associated to that particular map. The way above makes it so you ONLY have to download the map and files you need for that particular map and don't affect the other custom maps you may have.

To clear your cache completely you can just delete all the lines within the .ini file except [Cache] and save, then delete all the files within the cache folder leaving the .ini file.

You could probably just delete all files and the .ini will auto-recreate itself upon your first download. But to be safe you can do above. This then would make you have to re-download all maps over again.

Then for Coldsteel your game will no longer crash upon joining a server.
 
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#467
Finally gotten in several full matches over on 2.FJg server with this map. I feel much more consistent and confident with my feedback this time around. First cap is fun to fight for, the starting drive is fantastic.

There is a common, consistent problem however with the next two caps and every game I've played so far regardless of faction - the Germans get severely bogged down in the second/third caps.

As a Russian it is way too easy to pick them off, spawn in and head into their flanks uncontested (particularly the left side of A and B caps). The border lines for gameplay should be shortened on the left side for the Russians so that flanking remains viable and challenging for the Germans to deal with but not the over generous turkey shoot it is right now.

The design of the second cap/third cap not only heavily leans balance to the defenders but funnels the attackers too much and contributes to the overall flaw. The B cap should be made horizontal instead of vertical as it currently is now. Allowing the left side flank (Deadly Crossing) to still be in-play during the fight for B for both sides but also bringing in the heavily unused real estate on the right side of A and B for more concise design approach.

Spoiler!

Map Real Estate that should be used more often by design.

For a map that is slightly congested, it really is a shame that these huge vast portions of the map are not generally not used much, if at all. Players generally ignore it, even as the Germans - one would think the right side of B is key for getting into position but the vertical design of B cap still is too concentrated in favor of the Russians, who already have the over extended reach on the Germans right side as soon as they take a step out of their spawn. It is just far too easy for them (Russians) to constantly flood into B from every end.

The D cap disjoint the intended consistency as well, it either thins out the players too much or causes a seesaw battle that leaves either cap a ghost town. I think D should be pushed further back and made into a final cap zone with the potentiality of being really tough for attackers and deserving of an endgame portion of the map.

Merely my honest criticism here. I haven't even been farther into the map to determine or judge the other caps because the issues with B, C and D. Like I stated many times before, it is a great looking map but in my opinion it needs a reworked battle route/game play borders after the initial start.
 
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#469
@ Comrade Kaizer Thanks for taking the time to post good and constructive feedback. This is getting rare these days.
And though its quite late I will see what i can do with these suggestions for the B cap. As stated before I had problems with these returning uncalled spawnprotections and things would have been so much easier when I didn't had these and could add my spawns in the desired areas.

At first the D objective was recapable but I closed it down to avoid the mentioned spawnprotection issue. For the update I moved 1 spawn to get rid of the last spawnprotection thing which still present in Beta 8.

For the update the D objective will stay like it is but with longer captime
and a 1 time spawn for the Allies closer to that objective to set up a defense. When objective D is taken and Axis take E it will open F.

I will try to add the suggestions and move object B away from C and let the Axis spawn more to the right. This way they are closer to the unused area you mentioned.

Still I think gameplay can varies every time you play and depends on the players on your team. I played games where Axis commander did not use Artillery, reconplane and forced respawn. Then you are screwed.......
And I like to mention that I simply like layouts which are different as usual. Its a risk I take but I love the unpaved
roads instead of the save approach.

To be continued.
 
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#470
Comrade Kaizer said:
...As a Russian it is way too easy to pick them off, spawn in and head into their flanks uncontested (particularly the left side of A and B caps). The border lines for gameplay should be shortened on the left side for the Russians so that flanking remains viable and challenging for the Germans to deal with but not the over generous turkey shoot it is right now.
Click to expand...

Well, the Germans should have a few players on their (own) right flank to prevent that from happening. If they leave it open, then its to be expected some Russian players will take advantage of it.
 
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#471
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Well, the Germans should have a few players on their (own) right flank to prevent that from happening. If they leave it open, then its to be expected some Russian players will take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with this. A few Axis on that flank and a smart commander tossing artillery on that area or even more back at that bombed out entrance of objective B and the tide can change. Thats what I mean that players will need to observe this and then response on this. Teamplay and thinking. I wanted a wider front for that area.

I could open the acces to the area mentioned on that screen by Kaizer.
So its more attractive for Axis to enter B. Now its only doors. A more wider bombed area could offer a better fight.

I like the feedback and discussion as i want to deliver an attractive and divers map.
 
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#473
Geladius said:
The spawns need to be placed better. Unless everyone is okay with Spawn Camping as a level design?
Click to expand...

Can you add some more details as in which spawns ? Where it happens the most and when and did it last until all reinforcement where gone. As now it feels like all spawns are suffer spawncamping.
As I'm open to suggestions. And did more people experienced this.

I know that when Axis spawn for objective B they can have some spawncamp.
And it could happen when Axis spawn for objective D and E, but I already solve this for the update.
 
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#475
Drecks said:
Can you add some more details as in which spawns ? Where it happens the most and when and did it last until all reinforcement where gone. As now it feels like all spawns are suffer spawncamping.
As I'm open to suggestions. And did more people experienced this.

I know that when Axis spawn for objective B they can have some spawncamp.
And it could happen when Axis spawn for objective D and E, but I already solve this for the update.
Click to expand...

Well think about this way. If you see a directly into an area where the enemy is spawning. It's asking for spawn camping.

Also not sure if this hasn't been mentioned but the tactical map barely reflects what the actual map design is like. So it's generally useless unless you just want to see if you're in an Objective or not.
 
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#476
Hi Drecks,

Thanks again for making this great map. I have had the pleasure to play 6 rounds on this map yesterday and the day before with no less than 50-64 players on it. Thanks to 2.Fjg-servers for this!

I mostly agree with what Comrade Kaiser stated about the first 3 capzones, but I will bring up my version of it.

Up to beta 4 or 5, I thought that the first cap is too tough for the Germans to take, because the russian team was able to get too quickly into defensive positions. In beta 8, this seems to be not the case anymore. In fact, I find it almost too easy for the Germans to cap the first objective. Maybe it's possible for you to move the first russian spawning wave a bit closer to the capzone?
In the 6 rounds I played, only one round were the Russians able to hold the capzone for more than 3 minutes, thanks to a quickly, well-placed artillery strike.

After the first objective is taken, the battles tended to slowly turn back to the fights for the next 2 objectives. I yet have to understand how come, but one thing that was really irritating was that the attackers capped the zone, wiped out enemy forces and the second they tried to push forward, the capzone was already under russian attack again. And I guess (didn't count) that in all 6 matches on Coldsteel, the russians must have retaken the capzones for 20 times altogether. Nobody I talked to while playing actually understood how the russians were able to put pressure on the capzones that fast again. Even the russians.

At this point, I want to mention that you did a great job on the covernotes! Thanks for that. It's now possible mount MGs on the windows. I tried a lot of windows and where it should be able to mount an MG, it did that without problems.

The last 2 capzones offer epic battles. But again, it's a bit chaotic once in a while because the recapping of either one of them seems to be too easy. This of course could also be a result of players being new to the map and might be getting lost, but at this stage, it just feels a bit strange (I am comparing my thoughts from the former versions of Coldsteel which I have played with a max of 30-40 players most of the time).

The point Comrade Kaiser mentioned about the area which he would like to see more used during playing I can't really support. It's a great way of flanking the enemy, plus: it's sniper heaven. But once, either side controls that area, they can cause real pain and chaos to the enemy. I like that :D

Regarding the last capzone, I managed twice (don't ask me how and where because once I was there, I was surprised by myself) to get close to the russian spawn and all russians were approaching the final capzone by running from my 11 o'clock towards my 8 o'clock. They seemed to have little cover and couldn't figure out where I was. At this stage, don't change anything there, I might just have been lucky or it's a result of all players being new to the map.

Other things:

Performance
Stunning. Running smoothly between 60-85 fps on 1920x1080, everything maxed/ultrad out.

Graphics
The most beautiful map in the game so far! Only one thing I am concerning about: some corners inside of the buildings appear very dark. Couldn't see enemies/friendlies while they were maybe 10 meters away. This also sometimes happens when being in a dark place, watching into a bright place or vice versa. I tested some Graphic tweaks with TV brightness and Gamma, but the moment the shadows look "okay" to me, the rest of the map is too bright. So I am still under progress of finding the right settings for your map. :eek:

Gameplay
I love the fighting. Thanks to your covernotes it's great to play now. Especially capzones B and E are epic! Only concern: the chaos with recapping that I mentioned before.

Balance
So far, so good, but not yet able to tell you exactly. Players are still new to the map.
Russians won 4 times, Germans 2 times. No side ever ran out of reinforcements.

Another point: Maybe increase the round time by 5 minutes? The reinforcements seem to be plenty at the moment.

Hope this helps for the moment. I will post further feedback if I have sth to say.

Regarding COUNTDOWN
I only played 2 rounds of Countdown so far. And unfortunately with only 5 real players, rest bots. It's impossible to give you gameplay feedback on this. Only thing I can state regarding first impressions: The capzones for countdown are a bit too big. You might want to low down the capzones. Didn't TWI make it flexible with different sizes for the capzones for 16/32/64 players?
The time for capping a zone is short in CD and with the current size of the capzones, defenders can simply hide in the cap and wait until time runs out, rather than fight the enemy.
 
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#477
Thanks for the feedback. Good info and there is work to be done for the next update which I want to have a sheduled test with human players.

I will work on the suggestions.Guess one of the reason the Russians could cap B back so easily is that they spawn a little bit to close. For E the recap is supposed to be much harder, but I forgot to move the 2th Axis spawn more towards E after D was taken :) Thats fixed now.

I will start work on the overhead map to. Had weekend nighsshifts so little time to work on it.

Meanwhile I already made smaller objectives for the Countdown version.

And about the covernodes all I can say is you will be suprised with the next update as
I almost doubled the amount of them.

Thanks again and I'm back in my mapping dungeon.
 
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#478
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Well, the Germans should have a few players on their (own) right flank to prevent that from happening. If they leave it open, then its to be expected some Russian players will take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

Don't want to come off as shrewd :eek:, but this is terribly obvious and much too general advice. The server I play in is full with RO2 regulars who've been going at it since day one and can adapt to map/battle conditions. Players already do this, the feedback I have given from the gameplay experiences I mention still comply.

I've had matches where the Germans pour and expend enough men on that flank to keep the Russians at bay until the Germans lose all reinforcements trying to take B because it is far too easy for Russians to constantly reinforce it.

The left flank is overextended as shown below, far too easy to literally breath down on top of spawning German helmets...

Spoiler!


Three Russian players can cause more of a problem here then an equal amount of Germans in that area due to how close they can get to the German spawn (literally meters away). Expending more men to combat that flank, it's even harder for Germans to take B due to the Russians constant flood defense. They don't have to expend more men out on the flanks then the Germans, meaning less Germans in the cap.

Shortening the combat area bounds border on the left to perhaps here...

Spoiler!


This keeps the bunker, sandbags, rail carts, rail station area, far right end of B (potential deadly MG/sniping position Sensemann mentions) and the blown out portion of the D building in-play for the Russians and will definitely pose a lethal threat for Germans heading into B. Even more tough to fight into for the Germans if they want that side opening into B, but it'll be achievable with the right combination of team work/tactics (and a little luck always helps). Allowing for a more concise and fair but rigid and threatening battle for that portion of the map.

The unused area and some spawn point editing will mean less of a funnel/low choice design for the Germans and will spread out the "Russian flood". Right now the battle is just way too static as it is here on this part of the map.

With shortening the combat area borders on the left flank of B for the Russians, editing the spawn points for both teams and widening out B horizontally (not too generously, it doesn't have to be spread all the way to the right wall bounds) - it'll make a more consistent and dynamic cap zone where both left/right flanks can still be notoriously controlled by either faction dependent on player skill, tactics and team work.

I also agree with Sensemann in that while I think the first run cap is fun, it is also a bit too easy for the Germans. Maybe some limited forward spawns for the Russians will make it more challenging by the time the Germans are a few meters away from entering the cap zone (encourage the Germans to use smoke here).

Just to clarify, I'm not looking for a hand out map for the Germans with my feedback. I'm a fan of tough maps so in no way am I looking into making this easy for either faction. Such difficulty should be left up to the elements of the map and the factions to overcome them, but it also needs to retain consistency and a fair approach.

Drecks said:
@ Comrade Kaizer Thanks for taking the time to post good and constructive feedback.
Click to expand...

You're definitely welcomed. I greatly appreciate your response to criticism, some folks unfortunately take criticism too personal. It's safe to say we all want this map to be its best.


Sensemann said:
The point Comrade Kaiser mentioned about the area which he would like to see more used during playing I can't really support. It's a great way of flanking the enemy, plus: it's sniper heaven. But once, either side controls that area, they can cause real pain and chaos to the enemy. I like that :D
Click to expand...

It won't change the flanking at all honestly. I'm not asking for that right most portion to be part of the cap zone, I'm suggesting that the general vicinity sees more action. Russians will still be able to snipe and set up a lethal MG position there for the duration of both A and B caps. Example below.

Spoiler!


Spoiler!


So widening B horizontally won't change that dynamic you like about that area at all, in fact it'll just amplify it even more. It shouldn't be part of the cap, in that way either faction can engage, flank and vie for this position even more with a redesign.

With B more horizontal and deadly crossing (before it becomes C) reconstructed with a more balanced bounds border for the Russians (this can actually form a more concentrated Russian defense if you think about it) and the inclusion of the unused area - it just makes positioning more important, considerably opens up more tactical decisions for both sides and demands the Germans to think about approaching the factory walls with both flanking opportunities (Left: Deadly Crossing area/Right: E8-E9,D8-D9,G8-G9) kept asymmetrical. It'll be tough like it currently is but fair and in my opinion, much more dynamic.
 
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#479
Some people are determined to remove the strong challenge the Germans face...

Go ahead!! RUIN the MAP! - Make it easy!! Make it BORING!!
​

Wake up - this is perhaps the only map that fully presents genuine combat conditions with all the risks, frustrations and glory that accompany combat.

Personally, I say leave the TE version be and possibly spend whatever time is needed in polishing the map.
You might consider checking FF for spawn within a spawn trubs and a possible memory leak.
​
TE-Coldsteel is great.... super fun to play and a real challenge. Castrate the map and it'll go the way of the DoDo bird.

Leave TE-Coldsteel a real challenge. I play German and love the initial fight for the railyard. Sure its tough but damn, its superb entertainment fun and very satisfying when victory is ours!
 
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