Head Bob While Running

[Garbonzo]

What I Loved So Much About RO WAS THE WAY YOU MOVED! With the firearm never pointing in the middle of the screen unless you force it too!!!


I would LOVE!!! to see your head bob up and down in a realstic fasion while sprinting

In Arma2 They have it but it doesnt seem perfect to me idk why just doesnt

TW does everything PERFECT! so im sure you guys could pull it off



GAWD DAMNIT!!! RO:HOS!!! YES YES YES YES YES YES I LOVE YOU TRIP WIRE I LOVE YOU OMG I LOVE YOU!!!


Can I Has Yer Babies

 

[LemoN]

if TWI would make everything perfect wed have around 20 years of development time

 

[fireship4]

I've been in deveopment for over twenty years and I'm not perfect. To be honest im almost unplayable - in first person anyway.

 

[Nestor Makhno]

I've been in deveopment for over twenty years and I'm not perfect. To be honest im almost unplayable - in first person anyway.

hehehe

 

[Rak]

I like the effect from ArmA 2. Definitely takes some gamey part away and adds some more atmosphere.

 

[Hunt3r.j2]

I like the effect from ArmA 2. Definitely takes some gamey part away and adds some more atmosphere.

Fine with it, as long as the motion blur or the head bob isn't enough to make me sick.

 

[Crusher]

actually head bob isn't realistic at all, it's realistic if your head was a camera, but your brain filters the bobbing. Weird you didn't notice that yet.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

actually head bob isn't realistic at all, it's realistic if your head was a camera, but your brain filters the bobbing. Weird you didn't notice that yet.

^this.

Your brain automatically stabilizes the image your head makes while it's 'bobbing', so you dont notice headmovement.
If the brain didnt do that, we'd have a lot of people with motion sickness

To shake the camera as much as in ArmA2 is pretty unrealistic as i pointed out on their forums as well.
Unless you are a violent headbanger like me you wont notice much viewbobbing at all!

EDIT: but just try and see for yourself.
Focus on the small box i will make below and move your head up and down. Notice how the image of the small box isnt affected by your head movement.


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[Rudolph Farber]

head bob??

head bob??

Head bob? If I jog my head doesn't move around that much (as in arma2) if you watch a jogger you will notice the head has actually the least movement in it compared to the whole boddy!

The head bob in arma2 was terrible and unrealistic... It was far to much bob..

 

[LJFHutch]

Unless you're sprinting, them you sure as hell notice head bob Walking you'd get absolutely none, jogging/running almost zero, but sprinting ... last time I checked sprinting is full on, as fast as you can go. I notice "head bob" when I'm sprinting that's for sure.

Edit: Head bob in A2 was user defined. I have it on about 30-40%.

 

[Zetsumei]

sure the bobbing of your head is realistic. However your eye is attached to your head and your eyes & brain have an awesome sight control stabilization mechanism.

At the fastest speed i can move my head i can still read this text i'm typing here.

If the feeling of movement were to be portrayed i trough something like headbobbing i'd find it important that the aiming point of the screen (for ease of calculation it could be made at an infinite distance) doesnt change, and just the camera moving a bit to the left right top or bottom. Meaning you wont get motionsick or notice a big problem with watching around, but do get the feeling of being in motion.

As a tryout for yourself how that somewhat feels you can press the crouch button ingame while walking or as quickly as you want. Youll see you have absolutely no issue with seeing around you yet you do see and feel movement.

Per illustration here is a video of ro with crouching (of course the movement would need to be synched with your footstep sounds and be more smooth). But you can see that looking in the distance isnt that hard as long as the viewing angle isnt changed with headbobbing.

YouTube - Red Orchestra crouching while running

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I don't need to head bob in game anymore then I need the game to tell me when I should panic, lose focus, get scared, lose moral, free aim while I am actually trying to aim or to pick my digital nose for me when it get's itchy.

I don't need the game to calculate at random moments for when my shoelace unties and I trip, or when the gun jams and I gotta screw around with unjamming it or somehow dance around bullets while I switch to another weapon or drop the one that just jammed and try and take the one from the guy shooting me in hopes that it doesn't jam on me too when I get it.

I like how the game runs as it is and I don't need the system to be programmed to do things I already do for the most part while playing.

When I am running in game I already can't focus the best on things in the distance, as well it should be, I don't need to start seeing things in game as if I'm some cheap bobble head with a silly string neck everytime I moved somewhere.

I see something or someone, I then unfocus and run in their direction or flanking direction, then I get there, stop and focus to see if they're still there. I already unfocus while moving or running, I don't need something in game to make sure I do moreso.

All this would be is more strain on people's eyes while playing. With the motion blurs from explosions and bullets (which I don't mind) from the FOV skewing people are mentioning, the Free Aim Iron Sights Aiming and everything else made to make it almost impossible to hit anything unless you sit in one spot for a good 15 seconds..... people's screens and vision will be out of focus, blurry and screwed up more often then not that there'd have to be a warning on the game about seizures and headaches.

By the way, let's also program how often our in-game characters blink while we're at it.

 

[Zetsumei]

Slight head bob like i'm saying is in quite some modern games these days and nobody complains there. I think you're overexaggerating some things on how they actually effect things.

Your head moving up and down to give you a feeling of motion is something different from tying your shoelaces.

 

[LJFHutch]

Slight head bob like i'm saying is in quite some modern games these days and nobody complains there. I think you're overexaggerating some things on how they actually effect things.

Your head moving up and down to give you a feeling of motion is something different from tying your shoelaces.

Exactly. I love the effect in ArmA2, but I don't think it was done very well, you should only really get headbob when sprinting, otherwise, as has been said, your body can compensate for the motion. What is in RO now is fine for the walking and jogging though.

 

[omarfw]

if TWI would make everything perfect wed have around 20 years of development time

it hasn't been already? oops did i say that out loud?

i'd wait 20 years if twi gave me the perfect fps

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Slight head bob like i'm saying is in quite some modern games these days and nobody complains there. I think you're overexaggerating some things on how they actually effect things.

Nope, because those games you speak of I don't play or like... why?

this is one feature mentioned among many others I've heard people want in the game that are also reasons why I don't like those games mentioned.... and I'm not the only one in this thread who doesn't like the bob feature, so I'm not overexaggerating anything.

It's a simple fact... put things in this game from other games I don't like because of said features, and then the game I like becomes more like the games I don't.... which then comes to the conclusion that I won't play this game either.

And if some feature or idea doesn't show a clear view of it's actual benefits that the majority of people like/agree with, then to me, it's not worth the chance to go screwing around with it to risk losing even more people from playing/buying the game.

If you ever want a decent bank loan, a job interview, pitch a product or sell a show, etc. you can't just whip up any idea and expect those dishing out the money to just hand it all over to you. You need to prove and show that you know what you're talking about, that the main stream is interested in this idea/product, and that they can make money off of this.... you have to show you looked at all the issues and problems that may arise and that you have backup plans for those and that it's a good bet to make on you and your idea/product.

If they don't like what you have to offer, getting cranky and complaining they don't know what they're talking about isn't going to help things along.

The same situation applies here.... both with the game developers, what they need to know from the customers and market, and the players/customers & what they like and want so they produce a product that will reach out to as many as possible.

Even if it's a small trinket of a feature you want in the game, that small trinket if not done right or just not liked by most can spell disaster for a game's profit and overall gameplay.

Just check out any game review and see how detailed they go into the faults of each game. They will be noticed, picked apart and people will take those views seriously and may base their decision of getting the game on those alone. Meanwhile you can end up with threads on threads in forums of people complaining and moaning about how their gameplay sucks because of said feature, and then come up with even more screwed up ideas to add on top of the one already bugging them.

Your head moving up and down to give you a feeling of motion is something different from tying your shoelaces.

I don't need a simulated head bob to make me think I am moving when I already know I'm moving, and I don't need it like I don't need to tie my shoe in the game.... AKA: it serves no real purpose and only detracts from the gaming experience because it's just one more distraction.

 

[Zetsumei]

One of the focus points according to the devs is immersion. And visual feedback makes people generally more immersed into the situation.

Thats why having a form of headbobbing would be nice to have, however it should not interfere into gameplay. Thats why the headbobbing should not rotate your viewingpoint but only translate it.

RO by many standards looks and feels old now, and there need to be small improvements in a lot of fronts. If RO would stay the same on just a different front with a new rendering engine it would not be enough.

In the end its about the total package. But even if some games are bad some parts in them can be good.

Im up for tripwire looking into what the market wants, although if anything you will then get the opposite of what you want. Which from your posts seems to be 100% the romod. There is plenty of a showcase why some features can work, and what disadvantages of systems like the one in arma are, using that info to create a better system is more ideal than just letting everything be as it is.

Even in a game when implementing things there need to be concessions and a balance struck.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

One of the focus points according to the devs is immersion. And visual feedback makes people generally more immersed into the situation.

Thats why having a form of headbobbing would be nice to have, however it should not interfere into gameplay. Thats why the headbobbing should not rotate your viewingpoint but only translate it.

RO by many standards looks and feels old now, and there need to be small improvements in a lot of fronts. If RO would stay the same on just a different front with a new rendering engine it would not be enough.

In the end its about the total package. But even if some games are bad some parts in them can be good.

Im up for tripwire looking into what the market wants, although if anything you will then get the opposite of what you want. Which from your posts seems to be 100% the romod. There is plenty of a showcase why some features can work, and what disadvantages of systems like the one in arma are, using that info to create a better system is more ideal than just letting everything be as it is.

Even in a game when implementing things there need to be concessions and a balance struck.

Considering you think I want a 100% RO mod game to come out, you clearly don't read anything I say.

There were features in the RO Mod that were good that somehow got lost in Ost. There are also features in the Mod and Ost that seem to be getting tossed from the game that I think would be a mistake, which is why I suggest sticking to the old system, but indeed improve on them.

The main thing I liked about the mod was the tanks.... in Ost, they're screwed up. As it goes for whats in Ost for the soldiers and other features that wern't in the mod.... keep most of them, but improve on them.

My position is to improve what's already there, not to toss what made the game what it is out the window just to make the game more like all the other games out there.

My personal opinion on the head bob is that I never liked it in any of the games I played that had it. It looks like a camera shaking around while running with it.... it doesn't remind me of actually running and what my vision/head does in anyway because I am never focusing on such things.... toss it in the game and suddenly that's all you notice.

Not to mention, but people run in different ways and depending on how you actually run determines how much bounce you have.... do you land on your heel first or toe first? How much spring do you have in your run?

Your head may bounce around more or less then mine and some people notice this effect while other's don't, like myself.

I like anything that will add depth to the environment and your character in-game.... but focus more on the things that everybody can agree on or agree on with some minor changes.

I think head bob effects could have a place in the game, but not for running, but from impacts from explosions or bullets. Close explosions should knock you off your feet, you drop to the ground and everything is all blurry, deaf and shaky..... ie: head bob with additional effects.

Or another possibility is to only include the head bob while running only when you're almost out of energy and really fighting to run...... or if you're wounded the bob is more noticable.

But not for everyday running when you're healthy.... I'd be happy with that. Once we see if it works decently in the game, then maybe patch it later on to include as a common thing.

 

[Zetsumei]

the head bob should not interfere with the ability to play and ability to focus on things. And exactly the feeling of handheld camera attached to your head comes from a change in angles.

Just as i said try it for yourself press standing and crouch as quick as you can and look if you can focus on things. Because the difference between standing and crouch is a lot more than the movement of the head during movement.

Generally the amount even as much as going from standing to crouch wont give you any issue with focussing on a distance then sure it wont if it moves like 10 cm. Yet it can be used to give a user a feeling of movement.

Why would it make the game more like other games if the core gameplay stays, there are things that other games do that simply do things better than ro even though the game might be ****e.

 

[LJFHutch]

It does annoy me when head bob is introduced in situations in which it is not realistic. Take ArmA2, the head bob is very good, but they seem to have gone for the shaky-cam approach instead of the human approach, meaning that your view shakes around when walking and situations where a human body would easily compensate

Head bob should only happen when your character is really exerting themselves or is being severely affected by the environment:

* Jumping.
* Falling.
* Dying
* Being hit by a HE round.
* Sprinting (provided the sprint is something more than "fast jog" like most games)
* Dropping to your stomach.
* Climbing.

Etc.

As for being able to spot targets, you can't really do this while sprinting, and it wouldn't be realistic to be able to anyway. When sprinting at just under 25km/h you can't spot targets or do anything other than sprint. I'm sick of games using sprint as "go a bit faster mode", it isn't, it's an emergency "get away as fast as you can" thing It should also have adverse effects as well, such as not being able to aim very well at all (at the moment it's too easy to aim after sprinting for 100m with full kit), breathing rapidly and noisily (you don't sprint in stealth situations ...), not being able to concentrate all that well etc.

Head bob helps to reduce the "I'm a video camera on rails" effect too, as seen in Morrowind and Oblivion.