Disappointed by special treatment

[kraykan]

Destructoid has a recent article on their website. You can view it here. http://www.destructoid.com/killing-...-detonate-update-feels-damn-good-307087.phtml

It's a nice piece that previews some very exciting updates to Killing Floor 2. It made me eager for the update, and glad that I have the game. Yet after reading the article, i realized something. I cant play the update.

Mr. Furniss of Destructoid says that while their is no release date, "it shouldn't be far from now." "It's now in the QA stages, so as soon as final balancing touches are in place, it should be in your hands."

But its not in my hands. Its not in anyone's hands who paid for it. It is only in the hands of "journalists" who have special privileges. Now i'm not naive enough to not understand why. By letting destructoid preview this game, Tripwire will get more sales, and more money. This is the ultimate and logical goal of any company.

Indeed, Mr. Furniss shares that opinion. A comment on the article says that his previewing of the game in Early access is "****ed up". Furniss' reply:

"Because it's close, and they're sticking to their guns about making sure it's super solid before people play it. The build I was running needed a bunch of tweaks.

Plus, they want to drum up interest. If they just updated quietly, the people who already play would be happy, but they want to attract new players as well."

Twipwire has said that they want the early access to feel smooth and polished. Their updates go through rigorous QA i'm sure. But its not so buggy that they cant allow a journalist to have special access to content before anyone else does, even if they already bought the game.

There is no reason that this current build could not be offered to the consumer if it was fit to be offered to the press. By all means, do both. Give content to the players, and entice new players to purchase the game by giving it to the press. There would be bugs to fix, but these would already be known by the QA team, and they would not have to necessarily listen address any bugs the players find.

Ultimately, the message that Twipwire is sending to those who bought the game is that since we can't guarantee them new sales, we are not deserving of new content as soon as others are. And that is why I am disappointed.

 

[Yoshiro]

Press are often given access to buggy/crashy builds of games being told that the bugs and crashes are known and being worked on.

Now a studio can only "Get away" with doing that as long as they do indeed address those bugs and crashes prior to the release or they burn that bridge with the press. We've spent the majority of this week hunting down 3 (was the last count I knew) major crashes as well as several critical bugs that directly affected gameplay (often in a negative way or messed up balance).

As to the other subject you touched on. Yes new sales are important to us (it is how we continue to exist as a company, good will sadly doesn't pay bills. We learned that lesson with the original Red Orchestra when we almost went bankrupt with free updates). So we market on multiple fronts, directly to our existing community (what we are up to posts) as well as to the game playing market at large (to attract new fans and reach those who may have fallen away from the game).

For example, most everything Zach touched on in his article has been covered in WWAUT posts to the community over the past weeks. And those that haven't been I will be talking about tomorrow.

 

[jackfear]

Hey! That's my article!

 

[Sythen]

As much as i can understand how you feel kraykan, This is Marketing 101. I feel that the way TW and Yoshiro handle communications with the Community is second to non. I've not seen any other Studio do what TW do.

In regards to the EA State of the game. Things take time, what we have currently is the base of something that is going to be SOOOOOO much bigger than what we see right now. Studios cant satisfy everyone, But try and find another Studio that engages with there communities like TW do.

(P.S, i cant wait for the update! )

 

[NonCom]

A preview article?
That suggests the update is nearly ready.
I predict we'll be hearing more about this.

 

[PurpleFanta]

I mean, I understand how you feel as well, but that's just like seeing a movie trailer and being upset that you cant see it yet. You just have to wait. I know the excitement and hype can be killer sometimes though.

Kind of like how I feel for the new Deadpool movie :^(

It's also important for them to hand out what they think is working and fair (more less) so they can get good feedback on the things they want rather than us pointing out all of the bugs and unfinished things. I mean pointing out bugs is important, but if they had bugs they already knew about, it wouldnt do any good for the forums to be flooded with said bugs.

Another thing is being handed new fresh builds every time a dev works on something can be bad. There can be game breaking bugs that ruin the feel of the game for someone or everyone. If we got handed a build that was nearly unplayable, we wouldnt be able to enjoy the game until it was fixed.

Sometimes dev builds are good and fun but other times they can honestly ruin your excitement. I think TWI is doing fine the way they're doing it.

 

[Rocker Fox]

Gee, it's almost like the press get a press preview so they can make an article about an upcoming update or something to get people excited and spread the word that it's coming out soon. It's almost like when people review or make a preview for almost anything else in the world including movies.

This is a new and strange fact that i totally did not know about for at least 5+ years of paying any attention to gaming and the way gaming news tends to work.

Not to mention there are plenty of reasons to not offer it to a wide user base but can offer it to the press, one major one being optimization. Just because it runs fine on the computer of the person making the preview article does not mean that it will run fine on the 50-100+ other builds for computers just fine. There can be a few last minute bugs noticed or just the fact that they are getting everything ready to be downloaded on steam.

As for tripwire having their game in early access i can think of a lot worse sins than the updates taking a little while, especially on an engine like UT 3.8 (looking at you Uber Entertainment, you put out 2 more games with one being a glorified DLC pack and haven't even finished the one you started working on, the **** guys).

EDIT: Side not after reading the article, OH MY GOD, you guys actually went with the idea of the LARPer in the middle of a Zed outbreak, i thought that suggestion was long dead, that is too dam funny.

 

[Gregs2k2]

but that's just like seeing a movie trailer and being upset that you cant see it yet.

Exactly. You could whine, piss and moan about every game that a journalist website has a preview copy of. KF2 is no different. Even though the game is still in EA, it still requires coverage to gain exposure and garner fresh meat. That's the way it's been since the age of entertainment. It's not "special treatment", it's called marketing. Live with it.

I too am itching for new content as much as the next guy, but guess what? I'm patient enough not to post threads like these on a forum. I have other games to play and other activities to occupy my time with.

 

[Ryno5660]

The man who wrote that knows! He knows how the flamethrower fire looks! Has it changed? Is it the same?

He knows, he must tell me!

 

[FoolishNinja]

any news about scrake and/or flesh pound rework?
like louder or more damage or something?

 

[G-fan 27]

it appears not

Really honestly at this point i want a release time frame that isnt literally right on top of the actual release. I want to see the devs confident enough in themselves to be able to give this time frame. Not a release date, those are all around bad, but a time frame.

Honestly im hoping/praying that this is the longest we will have to wait for an addon. It seems like it should seeing as alot of new mechanics where added in this one that should make the rest of the perks easier to implement. Well one can hope as to the truth on the subject, we might have to wait another 3 to 4 months before we see something after this.

 

[poosh]

As to the other subject you touched on. Yes new sales are important to us (it is how we continue to exist as a company, good will sadly doesn't pay bills. We learned that lesson with the original Red Orchestra when we almost went bankrupt with free updates). So we market on multiple fronts, directly to our existing community (what we are up to posts) as well as to the game playing market at large (to attract new fans and reach those who may have fallen away from the game).

I think you (Tripwire) are messing up this.

Yes, there were free updates for RO, RO2/RS and KF1 (along with paid DLCs, but that's fine). And I want to thank you again for supporting KF1 for 5 years, adding a lot of great content, most of which was free.

But upcoming Incinerate 'N Detonate update for KF2 IS NOT FREE! Half a million customers have already paid for it. It is like saying, for example, if I preorder Fallout 4 now, then I'll get it for free on November 10th.

I perfectly understand that you need to attract new customers. But you shouldn't forget people who trusted you and who's dosh is in your pockets...

 

[PurpleFanta]

I have a question about the Knight character from Chivalry, is his Zweihander actually a new and different weapon or is it just a cosmetic difference?

I also love that everyone gets it if he's in he game, but I was just wondering how this will work.

 

[G-fan 27]

I think you (Tripwire) are messing up this.

Yes, there were free updates for RO, RO2/RS and KF1 (along with paid DLCs, but that's fine). And I want to thank you again for supporting KF1 for 5 years, adding a lot of great content, most of which was free.

But upcoming Incinerate 'N Detonate update for KF2 IS NOT FREE! Half a million customers have already paid for it. It is like saying, for example, if I preorder Fallout 4 now, then I'll get it for free on November 10th.

I perfectly understand that you need to attract new customers. But you shouldn't forget people who trusted you and who's dosh is in your pockets...

i wouldnt worry too much about it or look too ridiculously into it. At this point for twi, they have alot bigger of a audience now than just us hardcore fans from the first. They gotta keep in mind perspective buyers now too, on ps4 as well as pc.

I believe this statement was to make the point that TWI does free content releases for those who are unaware. I dont think paying money for early access content was ever a question, it was just a plug for them to advertise there generosity in content.

Though i agree there could have been other ways to advertise this that wouldn't come out sounding wrong.

 

[[TW]ZeroSum]

Another way to look at it: when a game or update to a game is coming out, and there's no press demo, that's usually not a good sign.

It's the press demos that are embargoed until after a release that you should be really worried about, if you know what I mean .

 

[Void]

Tripwire, can you do me a favor? Please keep calling it "free updates"! If possible more often and even in bold/huge font.

I like drama, blue faces and exploding panties.

Now where is my popcorn?

 

[nejcooo]

People already complain and always will complain so if we had password for pressdemo build nothing would get worse really. I would highly prefer that

Tripwire, can you do me a favor? Please keep calling it "free updates"! If possible more often and even in bold/huge font.

I like drama, blue faces and exploding panties.

Now where is my popcorn?

Then people will start again "How much will these perks DLC cost?"

 

[NonCom]

Again,

When someone says new, free content is not free, they are incorrect. They probably bought SEA version 1.0, if they have Manor, they now have KF2 SEA V1.1 for no additional money. They should soon have V1.2 without spending anything.

This policy is the just the same as KF1 - buy the game at whatever state it is in on that day and get free updates afterwards, as we make them. How did anyone ever survive from the Xmas update all the way until Summer Sideshow?

 

[RunningRabbit]

How did anyone ever survive from the Xmas update all the way until Summer Sideshow?

It was hard let me tell you, I actually had to go outside and interact with other humans without slashing them with knives and yelling for healing. It was horrible! I think I might have learned a usable real world skill!

Please don't take me back to those dark days NonCom, please.

(I still can't believe I'm one of few people just fine with dev times. I guess I just enjoy having something to look forward to.)

 

[vealck]

I don't mind that press guys get update sooner and I don't mind waiting some more for more polished build. However, the terminology 'free content pack' is kinda... little distasteful in my opinion.

When someone says new, free content is not free, they are incorrect

There is a main difference between KF1 and KF2. When we were buying KF1, we were buying it 'as is', because it was a finished product at any given time. Devs didn't have to develop it any further, and that's what we agreed to upon purchasing. Every subsequent free update was a bonus for us.

Early access is different. Buyer makes the decision here keeping in mind the outlined further content. And purchase agreement implies that devs compel themselves to deliver it. Of course due to the flawed steam refund system, total lack of supervision and murky law regarding licenses, nature of the product, differences in international laws, etc. - the customer is virtually unable to execute the delivery of the product he was promised and is unable to make any kind of legal case. But it doesn't change the fact that content updates are not an act of charity. They are expected, because that's what buyers and devs mutually agreed upon.

So yeah, the way I see it, the content is not free, it's been paid in advance. Perhaps it's just a semantic difference, used here and there to market the game for people who doesn't know what EA is, etc., but it is understandable that some people can actually be rubbed the wrong way by those semantics.