Debate about "spawn killing" IS IT OR IS IT NOT

[Cpt-Praxius]

What is stopping the defenders of appartments to go to the other side and shoot the russians in the back?
SPAWNPROTECTION
You cant cross the river. The moment you go behind the wall you get the read screen of spawnprotection... Thought everyone knew this? Or did I misread you?
Anyway, I agree on your points though.

Yes you misread.... I was referring towards the Russians backtracking towards their old spawn areas and using the buildings around there to pick off the "defenders" / Germans camping near the spawns. Or they can back track back around to the other side of the map.


The other side meaning Objective A or Objective B.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Personal opinion, yes. Its due to map design.

Theres almost no difference between spawnkilling and what happened in the first clip (apartments) because of how small the chokepoint is and the actual ability to move from the spawn to anywhere else. Basically 0 chance to move from the spawn point to anywhere.

The other clips are fine because you actually have options to do something.

And yet, I just listed a number of options you have with the first clip of Apartments.

I didn't see anybody spawning into thin air and getting shot.

Another of the many options is for a SL ot TL to lob a smoke grenade right at the window and block his entire view. This would either force him to relocate (as he should know they know where he is and are coming) or he'll start shooting aimlessly, but in both situations, he'll be dead soon.

You spawn on the other side of the wall and down in the river, there is no vantage point where he was to be able to shoot straight at people who are spawning.

And as mentioned before, they all could have spawned over to cap B and flanked him in 5 seconds and stop his antics.

The fault here lies directly on the Russian team not being able to think outside of the box and just constantly running out with no brains.

That entire building is often infested with Germans even after Cap A & B are captured and they are infested for the sole purpose of slowing down the Russians advances. Without doing so, the Germans are easily pushed back from the Square and Propaganda House.

At the same time, the Russians can close off the chockpoints of where the Germans spawn and gun them down the moment they round the corners from their spawns and towards Prop House or the Square.

And often times as a Russian, I'll take up the house on the German's side at Square (above where they all like to camp out and shoot at the Russians) and I will easily grenade, pick off and chew up anybody below me, in the square or anybody entering the top floor.

Is that spawn camping/killing? I'm not in the objective and I'm on the German's side of the objective, so you'd think that would be worse than what was shown in the video.

 

[Cat_in_da_Hat]

Its not spawn camping. Just a easy way for a talentless MG to get kills.
Fish in a barrel.
Like hunting in those parks where they tie up the animal to a tree so it wont run away as you shoot at it.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Its not spawn camping. Just a easy way for a talentless MG to get kills.
Fish in a barrel.
Like hunting in those parks where they tie up the animal to a tree so it wont run away as you shoot at it.

And the same could be said about Fallen Fighters in the square area. I could set up an AT Rifle, Sniper Rifle or MG across the map and chew up anybody who pops out of the buildings and heads towards the square.

Specifically the Russian's side when the Germans captured all but the last objective. Almost all of the Russians come out of that building behind the trams and I can sit in a tank or have an MG setup from the central square and mow anybody down who tries to head back to the final objective to defend it.

Whether I'm halfway across the map or right by the trams shooting them all up, the end result is the exact same as the Apartments scenario...... actually it's worse since in Apartments you have another spawn to use well away from where the guy was in the video.

 

[Cat_in_da_Hat]

It's talentless.
Personally I would get pretty bored doing that in Fallen Fighters or Apartments.
But I dont like chaining animals to trees and shooting them, perhaps other people do.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

It's talentless.
Personally I would get pretty bored doing that in Fallen Fighters or Apartments.
But I dont like chaining animals to trees and shooting them, perhaps other people do.

Effectiveness trumps Talent.


Mind you I prefer to use my "talent" to counter these people and if I see someone's name being spammed in the kill feed, I purposely go after them to put them in their place and to help my team.


But at the same time, I can respect their ability to pounce on an opportunity to better help their team.


If someone was doing this on my team, I would welcome their effectiveness. If it was an enemy doing this, they become my priority above everything else.


It's a valid tactic like any other in the game. If it couldn't be countered in at least one way then there'd be a problem, but there are multiple ways to deal with these situations.


The real problem in RO was in the RO1/ROCA days with maps like Danzig where the Germans could roll over the bridges and camp outside of the spawn zones. This in itself isn't a problem, but being able to lob grenades directly into the spawn point, there being no spawn protection zones and no spawn invincibility equaled a really bad experience for all players on the Russian side.


But that doesn't exist in RO2 simply because of these new features as well as having at least two points to spawn from at all times.

 

[Jank]

Yep that was just "low-hanging fruit" and there's nothing wrong with playing out that MG spot. Honestly nobody should last more than a minute there before one of his victims picks the other spawn and backdoors him.

 

[Diavolo222]

No it's not. People complaining should stop being babies. If u get killed in such a position, spawn somewhere else, and get them from behind or w/e.

 

[ro2player]

Theres almost no difference between spawnkilling and what happened in the first clip (apartments) because of how small the chokepoint is and the actual ability to move from the spawn to anywhere else. Basically 0 chance to move from the spawn point to anywhere.

Spawn on SL and Spawns solve problem of Spawn Killing.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

How? If squad leader is dead then everyone spawns back at the spawn locations, or perhaps its Classic mode or spawn on squad leader is turned off on the server.

 

[Jank]

There are (at least) two spawn locations to choose from - if this guy gets you on the spawn exit more than once, it's your own fault for not picking the other spawn and eliminating him.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Not all maps have multiple spawn locations.

 

[Jank]

True. But. If you can smoke/nade your way out, then it's not spawn killing IMO. Spawn killing is a lack of choice, it's killing someone where they spawn. The example video of Apartments IMO wasn't spawn killing.


*note this has to exempt spawning on squad leaders, which is just an unfortunate risk you take.

 

[ro2player]

How? If squad leader is dead then everyone spawns back at the spawn locations, or perhaps its Classic mode or spawn on squad leader is turned off on the server.

You mean ALL squad leader in same time must die.

Spawn Killing is not a problem. I repeat it. Spawn on SL and Spawn system kill it. (Moe I am talking for the current Red Orchestra game : Realism Territory)

this has to exempt spawning on squad leaders, which is just an unfortunate risk you take.

I wanted to mean Squad Leader still alive in the map can counter a Spawn Killer.
Spawn Killing have been kill by RO 2.

True. But. If you can smoke/nade your way out, then it's not spawn killing IMO. Spawn killing is a lack of choice, it's killing someone where they spawn. The example video of Apartments IMO wasn't spawn killing.

- Smoke is not a cover.
- Killing soldiers respawn on a SL is a "Spawn (on SL) killing" ? No.
But you can kill a soldier respawning on a SL, and it's not Spawn killing.
(With the respawn on SL - Where - it's on your Squad leader.)

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

You mean ALL squad leader in same time must die.

You can't spawn on someone else squad leader.

-------------------------
And I will say again, the examples in the video really aren't spawn killing.

 

[ro2player]

You can't spawn on someone else squad leader.

Yes but another squads is active...thanks to another Squad leader alive.

 

[Jank]

Of course smoke is not a cover - but it would have rendered that guy's spawn-exit covering tactic useless.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Not all maps have multiple spawn locations.

Indeed, however those maps that only have one spawn location usually have a wider spawn protected zone around it to better protect the players spawning.

To my knowledge anyways.

 

[GARY OAK]

Killing the enemy when he emerges from the spawn location is not spawn killing.

Mowing down a squad that has just re-spawned on their squad leader is not spawn killing.

However Running into the enemies spawn. Then killing the poor bastards as they materialize from the ether, is spawn killing.

 

[JosephBaier]

I don't really have a problem with these 'tactics' per se... more with my own teams incompetence to recognise what is happening and what to do when someone is going on a rampage behind our lines.
They just run through a corridor filled with dead teammates while ignoring the side and VOIP chat and also doing a great job at not noticing that the kill feed is going mental with a single name on one side. This obviously gets a lot worse during sales and free weekends.
Whenever I'm on the sweet side of the barrel I rarely see more than 2 people trying to actively hunt me down. IMO this whole thing is comparable with those newbies who keep running into the same artillery barrage several times, it's not an exploid of the Commander who placed it there - it's just lack of.. well, a lot of things. However this stuff is in a very grey area with no clear line, some maps are just so poorly designed that effectively fighting someone who keeps flanking your team is simply not possible and imo outright broken when I happen to be SL1.
For example on Pavlovs when I rush through the tunnels (glorious PPSHh-41 and some aiming) into the actual Pavlovs house and sneak to the sniper attic as a Squad leader there is almost no way to get rid of me and my respawning squad members who can happily shoot into the enemy spawn (actual spawnkilling) or prevent every Russian soldier from advancing into C and partially D. This is just one spot, there are countless more but I assume most of you know them, regardless if you use them or not.