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Crossbows.

J Moldy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2010
39
27
0
Okay, I can take everything that has been done to the Sharpshooter in the most recent update, with the exception of one thing.

The Crossbow's headshot damage being halved.

Seriously, the ONLY thing the crossbow had going for it was that you could shoot everything in a line, and go "Whoo, I killed 5 clots where some other perks weapons could do double that", and that you had huge headshot bonuses.

Most people used the M14 anyway, because a lot of people liked that you could run around and shoot whatrever you wanted and barely had to aim at all.

Good luck trying to be a Sharpshooter if your team dies now, and you have to kill a Fleshpound.

Look, at Level 6 if you did not hit a FP in the head with a crossbow, all you'd do is piss him off and probably end up killing yourself or your teammates, and actually do very little damage to the FP (400 damage to a specimen that has default of 1400 is NOT A LOT when you consider firing rate and such).

Halving the crossbow's damage breaks it into uselessness. Sure, it's strong, but you know what? It's the ONLY thing going for it. If it were put into actually 6x, that would be enough. But 4x? For the ONLY weapon that is ONLY useful in the hands of a Sharpshooter, and is pretty much ONLY useful when you shoot the head, that's pathetic. It would be like halving the pellets from the shotguns, or halving the rate of fire from the assault rifles.

Don't nerf the Crossbow into oblivion.
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,647
547
0
Scotland
Look, at Level 6 if you did not hit a FP in the head with a crossbow, all you'd do is piss him off and probably end up killing yourself or your teammates, and actually do very little damage to the FP (400 damage to a specimen that has default of 1400 is NOT A LOT when you consider firing rate and such).
Then make sure you don't miss. That is the price of missing. And what the hell were your team doing during this? Admiring the scenery when they should be helping kill the Fleshpound?
 
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J Moldy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2010
39
27
0
Then make sure you don't miss. That is the price of missing. And what the hell were your team doing during this? Admiring the scenery when they should be helping kill the Fleshpound?
No, that was the price of missing before. Now, the price of SHOOTING AT the Flesh Pound with the Crossbow is that you will instantle enrage him on higher difficulties. You are better off NOT shooting the FP because chances are you're going to get smashed into a pulp when he gets enraged. Trying to headshot the FP is near-impossible with just about any weapon.

What was the rest of my team doing? The were usually trying to get me a clear shot at him by keeping the other specimens off, especially things like Crawlers. I would take out the FP's and Scrakes with the Crossbow, to make sure that the rest of the team is capable of keeping everyone from getting swamped.

Guess what? On Suicidal, my team would die as often as not, and it was FUN. It was just as fun to lose as it was to win at it.
 

-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
3,476
1,942
0
Okay, I can take everything that has been done to the Sharpshooter in the most recent update, with the exception of one thing.

The Crossbow's headshot damage being halved.
agreed.

i partly agree with sammers; missing the headshot and causing the FP to rage is a good consequence for missing.....however when you GET a headshot, and that causes it to rage, then what is the point of getting the headshot as it results in the same thing as getting a bodyshot?

the FP one shot headshot, as a level6 SS using a weapon like the crossbow provided a reward for getting a headshot. now when a headshot does just as much good as a body shot in raging the FP, it's no longer worth going for the head at all. of course we still have cheaters left over from the beta claiming "3 shots in 3 seconds on the raging FP is a skill".......TW should have fixed the crossbow scope bugs before allowing people to conduct faulty testing and providing tainted feedback.

everything else was done perfectly. the pistols are now only good if you get headshots. while i still don't agree that the butchering the EBR was the proper solution to a perk issue (as opposed to people claiming it was a weapon issue), at least now people can't spam it as effectively as before.....EBR still should have just been left alone and switched to the correct perk, the commando....the LAR is still a very good weapon, in some cases better than any other SS weapon, and people seem to be using it a lot more.

butchering the crossbow for all non-SS perks is what needed to happen. however butchering the crossbow for the SS perk was not necessary.
 

The_Holy_Diver

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 26, 2010
249
78
0
Suburbia
I just find it funny, playing on normal and hard with my friend for a relaxing game and I was playing zerk and my friend was playing medic. It was us two until wave 3, then the other 4 who joined were all sharp shooter.

The story takes place in crash on the balcony. All the sharp shooter have hand cannons. Three of them have the M14 because the Xbow is "too nerfed". The other guy had the Xbow.

All the sharp shooters ended up dying in a fail frenzy. This was interesting because non of them had listened to my advice, which happened to be

"AIM FOR THE HEAD YA BUNCH OF PIKIES"

Well they insisted on body shots and trying to spam the cross bow. Now whatever your take on it is TW has lowered the body shot damage, nothing anyone can do about it.

So it comes down to choice:
LAR
EBR
HC
XBOW

Sharp shooters have more than enough to start a war. Use the tools you have as a sharp shooter. LAR is an amazing wepaon, I prefer it to the EBR and Xbow actually. It may be the solution to your Xbow problem.

And I am gonna quote some guy who said this first - <forgive me while i look for his name>
--- Sharpshooters are supposed to hit them in the head, not the body.

EDIT:After playing the game with the xbow, the update makes me me feel more accomplished as a sharpshooter. Gives me a sense of, wow I can do it fast and clean.
 
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E(rik)

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 12, 2010
161
102
0
22
New York
And to add to all this; I did a test on a perk replacement server as a level 6 Sharpshooter with poundamonium and a stopwatch.

The LAR, with about 5 headshots, took down a full health FP half a second quicker than a Xbow did.​
 
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Salad Snake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
875
148
0
30
Honolulu, Hawaii
Ok, you're getting headshoots, good. Here's the thing though:

YOU STILL NEED BACKUP.

Just because you're getting headshots doesn't mean you don't need any help to kill the biggies, it just means you need MUCH LESS backup then a non-sharp would. Every headshot takes the same amount of body health as head health off. That's the key.
 
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EonSeig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 13, 2010
260
93
0
Florida
The Crossbow's headshot modifer is not 4x when you are playing Sharpshooter. It is 6x. The modified weapon multiplier is just hidden.
 

Entangler

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2009
474
216
0
31
Sydney, Australia
The Crossbow's headshot modifer is not 4x when you are playing Sharpshooter. It is 6x. The modified weapon multiplier is just hidden.
Hidden where? Not in KFVetSharpshooter or CrossbowArrow; I just checked.

Are you sure you're viewing files from the correct version? The ones kicking about in the KF directory haven't updated for quite a while; if you want to view 1016's source, you'll have to decompile it yourself. For those who are interested but don't know how, here's some Instant Batch Magic, Just Add Water (and change the target directory):
Code:
@echo off
set KFDIR=C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\killingfloor\System
set TARGETDIR=C:\Documents and Settings\Uzguz\Desktop\KF Muts and Source\KF 1016 Source

if not exist "%TARGETDIR%" mkdir "%TARGETDIR%"
if not exist "%TARGETDIR%\KFMod" mkdir "%TARGETDIR%\KFMod"
if not exist "%TARGETDIR%\KFChar" mkdir "%TARGETDIR%\KFChar"

cd "%KFDIR%"
ucc batchexport KFMod.u class .uc "%TARGETDIR%\KFMod"
ucc batchexport KFChar.u class .uc "%TARGETDIR%\KFChar"
if exist steam_appid.txt del steam_appid.txt

pause
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,647
547
0
Scotland
No, that was the price of missing before. Now, the price of SHOOTING AT the Flesh Pound with the Crossbow is that you will instantle enrage him on higher difficulties.
That has always been the price of missing with every perk other than Sharpshooter. Why should sharpshooter be allowed to kill things in one shot? Because you can't play with a team? Wise up.
 

xebo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2010
143
150
0
Basically the beta was an excuse for everyone to take out their frustrations on sharpshooters by nerfing them into a role perceived as "In working order" by other perks, and "completely retarded" by sharp shooters themselves.

SS is fairly useless on his own at this point (Like a demo), and in teams his existence is questionable at best. This was the intention of the beta (I have a lv 6 SS). Tripwire accidentally created a single perk that was suppose to do the job of the entire team - Kill the big scary stuff. They were faced with a decision: Redefine and change the role of the sharpshooter, or just not make him good at his previously intended role. Since the later was a lot easier, they went with that, and summarily nerfed the poop out of him. Unfortunate, but true.

Now most of the better players that helped change the SS during beta have a vested interest in proving that their changes were correct. That's why you'll see a lot of heated resistance among the same core group of posters. They tweaked SS into what it is today - Impotent.

This was done, however, for a specific reason. SS has been sacraficed to make the game more difficult and team oriented. I guess I'm ok with that, though I greatly would have preferred a reworking of the SS's role, rather than an across-the-board decrease in effectiveness (just turn him into the gunslinger everyone wants). Even if that meant taking more time to change things.
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
3,476
1,942
0
That has always been the price of missing with every perk other than Sharpshooter. Why should sharpshooter be allowed to kill things in one shot? Because you can't play with a team? Wise up.
erm, because he isn't evey other perk? because he's supposed to be rewarded for headshots? because it's a perk bonus giving him an ability that makes him unique? because his role for 20 months has been anti-FP/Scrake?

the way it is now, non-SS classes shoot the FP's feet and it rages him.....yet the level6 SS, using a tier3 weapon, with special perk bonuses, shoots a FP in a critical zone with a headshot, and he ALSO rages the FP.

that right there is completely illogical
 

timur

FNG / Fresh Meat
erm, because he isn't evey other perk? because he's supposed to be rewarded for headshots? because it's a perk bonus giving him an ability that makes him unique? because his role for 20 months has been anti-FP/Scrake?

the way it is now, non-SS classes shoot the FP's feet and it rages him.....yet the level6 SS, using a tier3 weapon, with special perk bonuses, shoots a FP in a critical zone with a headshot, and he ALSO rages the FP.

that right there is completely illogical
well, I agree that an xbow shot from a SS should not kill, but it should certainly cripple.

The main thing is just getting it so that the SS can't just take them out completely on their own. They need at least a little team support, but they should be able to visit the most damage on a particular thing.

I think that's how it currently is, but as-is it's hard to tell. We have entered the grey area. Personally, I vote for more damage, much slower recoil. Make each shot count, but make them count thouroughly.
 

grazr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 14, 2010
48
11
0
Basically the beta was an excuse for everyone to take out their frustrations on sharpshooters by nerfing them into a role perceived as "In working order" by other perks, and "completely retarded" by sharp shooters themselves.

SS is fairly useless on his own at this point (Like a demo), and in teams his existence is questionable at best. This was the intention of the beta (I have a lv 6 SS). Tripwire accidentally created a single perk that was suppose to do the job of the entire team - Kill the big scary stuff. They were faced with a decision: Redefine and change the role of the sharpshooter, or just not make him good at his previously intended role. Since the later was a lot easier, they went with that, and summarily nerfed the poop out of him. Unfortunate, but true.

Now most of the better players that helped change the SS during beta have a vested interest in proving that their changes were correct. That's why you'll see a lot of heated resistance among the same core group of posters. They tweaked SS into what it is today - Impotent.

This was done, however, for a specific reason. SS has been sacraficed to make the game more difficult and team oriented. I guess I'm ok with that, though I greatly would have preferred a reworking of the SS's role, rather than an across-the-board decrease in effectiveness (just turn him into the gunslinger everyone wants). Even if that meant taking more time to change things.
Agreed. What it really needed was changes to the ammo supply rather than damage. Originally the sniper could hold 4 side arms he never even needed and could massacre specimens of any threat level with the EBR and still have spare ammo despite taking 3 players worth of kills/bounty per wave.

Limiting the ammo of tier 3 weapons would force SS to prioritise targets and weapon ammo rather than obliterating everything in sight with the 1 tier 3.

The only reason to use the crossbow was for the headshots and getting multiple pentrative bow shots is completely circumstantial (although easier on some maps rather than others). Ontop of that, beyond the necessity of survival in harder difficulties it isn't even that much fun to use.
 

scary ghost

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2010
900
338
0
California
erm, because he isn't evey other perk? because he's supposed to be rewarded for headshots? because it's a perk bonus giving him an ability that makes him unique? because his role for 20 months has been anti-FP/Scrake?

the way it is now, non-SS classes shoot the FP's feet and it rages him.....yet the level6 SS, using a tier3 weapon, with special perk bonuses, shoots a FP in a critical zone with a headshot, and he ALSO rages the FP.

that right there is completely illogical
Crossbow body shots do not insta-rage fleshpounds, perked or not if the pound has been untouched. A body shot bolt only deals 150 damage, and you need to do >360 damage within 2 seconds to trigger rage.