IMO the best solution against nade spam is improving the maps. Less chokepoints = less nade spam.
Upvote
0
Any solution to the nadespam problem?
- Thread starter Fedorov
- Start date
^
A :IS2: for you sir!
Also, add in:
1) free aim for nades so people can't snipe with grenades
2) slightly randomize the fuses so people aren't cooking nades to explode as soon as they land
3) Make a very small percentage of nades duds
Upvote
0
This. Randomized fuses are reality. People perfectly cooking every grenade is ridiculous in every game where it happens. Best thing Call of Duty 2 did to the series was disallowing cooking. (Ofc they modded it in. :E)
Upvote
0
Disagree. In real life, with enough training and practice, you would be able to throw grenades pretty accurately. (Unless you have no hand-eye coordination at all, in which case you probably are going to fail as a soldier).
In real life, your brain autonomously figures out roughly where an object you're throwing is going to go by your body position, etc. That's how a pitcher can put a baseball into an area slightly larger than a guy's hand from however far away he is. Our brains can't do that from an image on a screen, so there needs to be some way for us to be able to aim grenades. Otherwise teamkills will be ridiculous from missed windows, etc.
Upvote
0
Well it looked kinda hilarious to run around with a live grenade in your hands even for 2min without getting you killed.
Upvote
0
It's same with free-aim in any game (even with typical RO standard weapons), slight practice and it'll work out quite well - and note that they free-aim does NOT need to be +600% exaggerated extravaganza that makes you look like you're on drugs.
Upvote
0
Exactly, free-aim doesn't mean that it will be impossible to throw nades accurately, but you do have to familiarize yourself with the system in order to be highly effective with them. The same principle applies to every other weapon in the game that uses free aim; at first it's difficult to use the weapon, but once you get more used to it, it becomes much easier.
I don't want to cripple our ability to use nades, but I do want there to be a little more skill involved in using a weapon that is so deadly in the first place
Upvote
0
the harder it is to aim with a nade, the more likely someone will spam them, as it is gonna be more effective at a random nade-spam in a general direction, than as a precision tool made for clearing out defending enemies in an specific position.
So I don't understand how could free aim in nades would improve the situation at all
So I don't understand how could free aim in nades would improve the situation at all
Upvote
0
I don't know. People have enough trouble already throwing a grenade throught a window. Take a look at the russian team in Smolensk Stalemate when they are defending the farm. Imagine that with free-aim.
Upvote
0
well the free aim idea is to lessen the amount of nade sniping, and the slightly randomized fuses is to prevent precision nade cooking. But the only thing that will prevent nade spam (or at least lessen it) is map design... clusterfjorky capzones like danzig bridges is a perfect example of how map design can encourage nade spam
Upvote
0
but in a system where 2 teams of 32 players each have a spawn relatively close to the fight area as there will be squad based spawn, the place is gonna be always crowded. If everyone have 2 nades in each spawn... I don't know, but I think it would be pretty bad... constantly
Upvote
0
I hope that grenades get somewhat limited to perhaps one grenade per person in territory mode. Sure it can be realistic to carry 6, but it IMO just makes the game less fun.
Its not fun to get killed by something you couldn't see coming and can't do anything about.
I'm especially afraid that with more forward spawning near a SL that it might be possible to easily throw a grenade at the person that killed you 10 seconds ago. I mean in a game like ARMA grenades won't really be an issue. Its in maps where there is an enemy behind every possible corner.
This is one of the reason why I hope there is some breathing space to move around without having to fight for every meter, its just not fun if you're contained in a location without the ability to perhaps outsmart someone by manouvering around him.
Its not fun to get killed by something you couldn't see coming and can't do anything about.
I'm especially afraid that with more forward spawning near a SL that it might be possible to easily throw a grenade at the person that killed you 10 seconds ago. I mean in a game like ARMA grenades won't really be an issue. Its in maps where there is an enemy behind every possible corner.
This is one of the reason why I hope there is some breathing space to move around without having to fight for every meter, its just not fun if you're contained in a location without the ability to perhaps outsmart someone by manouvering around him.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
It's quite problematic situation as basically every solution when it comes to limiting grenades and arguing about the realism vs results. Sure nadespam is 'realistic' in its own way, but since we can respawn in a game and we're limited to only certain space (even if it's relatively large) it gives twisted results gameplay-wise.
Randomising the amount of grenades per spawn or greatly limiting and randomising is not that bad, but what you can do and whatnot once in a while is greatly dependant on do you get lucky with a spawn or not, as I doubt no-one's going to borrow you a grenade if you really would need one. Single grenade per player\spawn is sort of decent compromise with that.
Individually limiting grenades has the problem that in your typical map it would take 2-3 minutes before the other side is out of grenades and then it becomes a huge fest of omgwtfbbqsauce complaints once they realise that they can't do **** anymore. Alternate variation that is slightlky asinine aswell is limiting grenades per objective, so once you would capture an objective (of course if it's recaptured then it would not refill as much) you would get several extra grenades for the next objective, but it would still pose similiar issue if the map ends up like a huge grindfest. Team runs out of grenades, can't move out of X, they've basically 'lost' it in theory.
Fedorov said:
Now that is entirely possible scenario, but a suggestion for that would be to slightly reduce grenades' kill radius.
Upvote
0
With individually limiting grenades you generally shouldn't run into issues that much. With group limiting grenades you do get into issues.
As long as its individual and it is actually clear that you have a max amount of grenades and see the amount decrease every time you spawn.
As long as information is simply and people obtain clear feedback systems will generally stabilize. Due to the self conservation in humans.
As long as its individual and it is actually clear that you have a max amount of grenades and see the amount decrease every time you spawn.
As long as information is simply and people obtain clear feedback systems will generally stabilize. Due to the self conservation in humans.
Upvote
0
Considering how often people don't read manuals, even simple FAQs, stickies or anything on almost anywhere when it comes to online activity, I wouldn't really count on that
Upvote
0
Considering how often people don't read manuals, even simple FAQs, stickies or anything on almost anywhere when it comes to online activity, I wouldn't really count on that
Which is exactly why systems need to be simple. People do not read manuals and you cannot in these days expect people to read that, which is why the reinforcement system needs to be simplified and preferably made individual.
Direct feedback that is simple and understandable automatically makes most things balanced, and that is exactly why it works. People understand the concept of buying things. If you have money and something costs money people understand that if they spend too much they will run out money. Conservation of goods is part of human nature.
Equally if you go to primal instincts, if there is big pool of things free for everybody to grab that you will try to take it all for yourself (unless you trust in that group to not do the same).
People understand the concept of lives or buying stuff in games like for instance Mario or Counter Strike. They are basic concepts used in games since forever. Heck direct feedback is exactly how you even teach animals to do stuff, and animals can't read manuals either. Feedback is the basis of the primal learning properties of any living creature.
The issue comes once there is no direct feedback on what you do.
If you get feedback on what a team as a whole does, its difficult to see the relation of your individual input regarding the reward output. If a system is overly complex or delayed then when you get feedback you don't know what sort of feedback.
But if you have for instance 7 lives and spawning as a class costs 3 lives and after spawning with it you have 4 lives. Every person that is of sufficient age to play RO will understand what happens and how it works. If people see that playing in a certain way keeps them alive longer and they consider that to be a positive effect, then people are likely to start using such behaviour more.
If people play and hardly die and see them and the team running out of reinforcements within 10 minutes. While when dying every 20 seconds being able to play the entire game. Then the feedback given to the player seems to share a random/irregular behaviour, resulting in that no matter what a player does it feels like it doesn't matter.
Feedback is probably the most important method of how you can create stability in a lot of systems. The only other method that really works is restraining a user.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Third this notion!!!
but, If this becomes reality...
I will miss my perfectly-primed Nolan Ryan/ Joe Montana airburst frags.
I use to be able to toss one nonchalantly into a window at 30 yards while running. People was angry
Upvote
0
Right there, RIGHT there. Play DH. I know you all hate it for whatever reasons that I can't comprehend, but play it for a single day. They toned down grenades substantially, sometimes maybe a little too much, but they did. And what has happened because of it? Grenade spam and blind throwing has VIRTUALLY CEASED TO EXIST. The only time people use their grenades it to clear out small rooms and tight little hard-to-reach corners.
Like they should.
This is in contrast to constantly running into a Russian who, lo and behold, has a grenade in their hands because people rely on them so irritatingly much. I don't know how you lot would feel about losing your nuclear hand grenades, but if HoS toned them down to about mid way between RO and DH, I'd view that as an excellent compromise.
Upvote
0
I dont know about this. A handgrenade should stay a handgrenade. What do we have then, throwing little firecrackers?
Maybe reduce the range of the throw gives a fair deal.
Last edited:
Upvote
0