Ok, I think I've figured out how to implement a sniper perk

[nutterbutter]

First, I don't care what the sniper rifles are. Everyone can debate which models and how much damage is done (and pretty much everything below). What I am suggesting is how snipers are implemented.

1) Sniper rifles can not be fired from the hip. Equipping the sniper rifle immediately brings the scope up to the shooter's eye.

2) Equipping either sniper rifle takes a full second. This second is to for the shooter to acquire his stance, bring the weapon up, and get a good sight picture. Switching from the sniper rifle takes a full second.

3) The tier 4 weapon has a 12x zoom. It is a single shot bolt action rifle and there is a 1.5 second delay between shots. Maximum 20 shots.

4) The tier 3 weapon has a 6x scope and is semi-automatic. There is a 1 second delay between shots. Five shot magazine. Maximum 30 shots.

5) At the current balance level, I've got no problem with the tier 4 weapon4 single shot headshot the scrake. If there is a rebalance (which I hope) then 2 headshots for the kill.

6) Tier 4 weapon penetrates 3 targets. Tier 3 penetrates 2.

7) The tier 4 weapon weighs 9 and the tier 3 weighs 7.

8) Perk level bonuses are a tenth of a second less delay per shot per level and additional ammo.


Ok, here is my thinking.

To prevent high powered weapons from being used up close instead of the standard weapons, there is the delay in equipping, and there is the high level zoom. I want the zoom high enough so that the sniper doesn't have a good view closer than 30 feet. The sniper should be someone who stays in the back and picks off targets. The delay between shots is the ensure the sniper isn't someone who can solo a wave. If everyone dies and there are more than a few specimens, then that sniper rifle is useless.

Comments?

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

you can't just make it impossible to fire one weapon from the hip while letting every other weapon be fired from the hip. plus, that's just not realistic as in real life, you can easily fire this type of weapon from the hip.

the issue regarding this is the accuracy when firing from the hip. the only solution to that would be for TW to impliment freeaim into KF, which i highly doubt they'd take the time to bother.

btw, what are you defining as a "sniper" rifle? techincally the game currently doesn't have any specified "sniper" rifles. only the bow has a scope (which is low powered anyway). the LAR is far from a "sniper" rifle, but the ironsights allow it to be good for sharpshooting. the EBR is just a battle rifle that shouldn't even be in the sharpshooting class, plus it doesn't have a scope. i'm guessing you assume that TW will be adding in an actual "sniper" rifle like a bolt action (SMLE) that has a high powered scope on it?

 

[HCX]

I can kinda agree with an inability to fire those rifles from the hip. In Infiltration, you had to first bring up your scope before firing a shot and it did little to interfere with the weapon's role, while still forcing you to use a secondary weapon in more intimate situations. Considering their bulk, I might even be okay with the delay in switching to or from a sniper rifle.

Some of the items on this list seem unnecessarily cumbersome or arbitrary, though.

• Having the scope come up immediately upon switching to the rifle sounds extremely irritating, and unless the zoom is adjustable, I can't see a 12x scope being useful on the vast majority of KF maps.

• A fixed delay between shots also sounds a bit silly to me if you're not working a bolt.

• I'm not a fan of the extremely limited ammo either unless the rifles are somehow light enough that I can carry a good secondary for sirens and husks, which would otherwise cost precious ammo better spent on scrakes or fleshpounds.

If the idea is to force the perk to take their time with each shot, I'd rather have some scope sway introduced and give the crouch action some purpose. Instead of a fixed delay between shots, why not have it so you can crouch for a moment to steady your scope and fire, after which the sway must be brought under control again? In the same vein, added sway control would give the perk a special affinity for their weapon that other perks have with their own (e.g. damage bonus, magazine capacity). These are the RO devs we're talking about, so I don't think it'd be excruciating for them to implement this if they wanted.

Furthermore, dongs everywhere. Obvious flaws aside, I think the Sharpshooter fits in neatly as-is.

 

[avp2501]

The upcomming Balance patch should sort the weapons out anyway.

I agree that snipers should stay back but they got to have a chance if they are the only ones left.

Just make it so they only get their perk bonus' if they shoot the zombies in the head.

 

[nutterbutter]

you can't just make it impossible to fire one weapon from the hip while letting every other weapon be fired from the hip.

LAW.

btw, what are you defining as a "sniper" rifle?

Any rifle with a 12x or 6x scope on it

• Having the scope come up immediately upon switching to the rifle sounds extremely irritating, and unless the zoom is adjustable, I can't see a 12x scope being useful on the vast majority of KF maps.

Exactly. Zoom isn't adjustable to expressly keep the weapon from being useful within 30 feet or so.

• A fixed delay between shots also sounds a bit silly to me if you're not working a bolt.

Recoil and having to reacquire a good sight picture. Someone with a high powered rifle shouldn't be able to lay down fast accurate fire with a 6x scope.

• I'm not a fan of the extremely limited ammo either unless the rifles are somehow light enough that I can carry a good secondary for sirens and husks, which would otherwise cost precious ammo better spent on scrakes or fleshpounds.

There has to be some drawback to high powered rifles.

If the idea is to force the perk to take their time with each shot, I'd rather have some scope sway introduced and give the crouch action some purpose. Instead of a fixed delay between shots, why not have it so you can crouch for a moment to steady your scope and fire, after which the sway must be brought under control again? In the same vein, added sway control would give the perk a special affinity for their weapon that other perks have with their own (e.g. damage bonus, magazine capacity). These are the RO devs we're talking about, so I don't think it'd be excruciating for them to implement this if they wanted.

Not a bad idea, but that is a lot to implement. I'd rather have additional weapons implemented in the current environment than no additional weapons that need serious reworking of the engine. Because if they have to implement crouching for improved stability and swaying, then they would need to implement it for all weapons.

I agree that snipers should stay back but they got to have a chance if they are the only ones left.

They do. They just have to ditch the sniper rifle first.

 

[C_Gibby]

Sniper perk

I think you might mean sharpshooter.

Anyway, adding sniper rifles is something that has been discussed, but of course, the sharpshooter is a broken perk so it needs fixing. I'm all for adding a sniper rifle to the sharpie perk, but I'd rather wait till all the mess revolving around it is fixed.

 

[nutterbutter]

I think you might mean sharpshooter.

Not adding to the sharpshooter. Either a sniper perk or sniper rifles for everyone to use.

Anyway, adding sniper rifles is something that has been discussed, but of course, the sharpshooter is a broken perk so it needs fixing. I'm all for adding a sniper rifle to the sharpie perk, but I'd rather wait till all the mess revolving around it is fixed.

I don't think sharpie is broken. The m14 needs to be nerfed and I think the xbow should be more expensive with fewer bolts. But that is a problem with a couple weapons not the perk.

 

[YoYoBatty]

12x zoom wud set your FOV to around 7 or 8, type in FOV 7.5 in the KF console offline and see how intensely the zoom is :\

 

[HaTeMe]

LAW.

Thats not exactly the same as a sniper rifle. Theres nothing stopping you from hipshooting with rifles, but try that with a rocket launcher or alike and youll most likely end up blowing yourself up.

I think that if they were to implement an actual sniper rifle, the easiest way to balance it would be giving a small clip and long delay beetween shots so you cant spam it. Therefor, firing from hip would be possible but not recommended. They could also give it a huge recoil when firing from hip.

Also, its funny how the crossbow scope (at least the textured one) doesnt "follow the players movements". I mean, you could be jumping up and down and side to side and still have flawless aim because the scope keeps on the center of the screen no matter what you do. I dont rly know how to expalain it so hope someone understands. If you think about the COD series for example, you had to hold your breath before taking a shot for maximum accuracy, just like in real life it would be. Something like this should also be implemented in KF so you have to focus on the shots and the sharpshooter could actually be called a sharpshooter...

 

[9_6]

12x zoom is a bit over the top.
No map is that large and I don't even think you can see enemies from that far away.

The crossbow has a zoom of 3x or something and it's quite a lot already.

 

[timur]

Isnt this just what the ss was supposed to be?

 

[HaTeMe]

12x zoom is a bit over the top.
No map is that large and I don't even think you can see enemies from that far away.

The crossbow has a zoom of 3x or something and it's quite a lot already.

Indeed.

12x zoom would be 4 times more than the crossbow has so where would you ever need that? Maybe in a gigantic map with no distance fog what so ever, but even then specimens tend to spawn very close to you, and therfor youd never had the chance to snipe then afar anyway.

 

[nutterbutter]

Thats not exactly the same as a sniper rifle. Theres nothing stopping you from hipshooting with rifles, but try that with a rocket launcher or alike and youll most likely end up blowing yourself up.

Not really.

I think that if they were to implement an actual sniper rifle, the easiest way to balance it would be giving a small clip and long delay beetween shots so you cant spam it.

Then why use it? Small clip means nothing because people will simply stack them on the deck. And who is going to use it if there is a long delay? Balancing means still having a reason to use the weapon but it doesn't overwhelm everything. My suggestion of having very powerful scopes and a significant delay in switching to and from the weapon may not be the perfect solution, but it doesn't nerf the weapon once it is being used. It is just makes it fit in a role and it makes it a pain to start using it but not keep using it.

12x zoom is a bit over the top.
No map is that large and I don't even think you can see enemies from that far away.

The crossbow has a zoom of 3x or something and it's quite a lot already.

12x scope sets a minimum effective range. If someone needs a sniper rifle on a smaller map then they can pick the 6x scoped rifle.

Isnt this just what the ss was supposed to be?

I don't think so. I think sharpie fits really nicely with the pistols, LAR, and hopefully nerfed xbow and m14.

Just because a weapon has a scope doesn't mean it is sharpie only. At least that is how I see it.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Not really.

YES really. seriously please videotape yourself attempting to hipshoot a LAW in real life so that we can all laugh at you unintentionally killing yourself in the process

 

[nutterbutter]

YES really. seriously please videotape yourself attempting to hipshoot a LAW in real life so that we can all laugh at you unintentionally killing yourself in the process

I've fired an AT4. I don't think one recoilless rocket is much different from another recoilless rocket.

 

[Azukki]

Sounds like the basis of Sharp Shooter, (reward of large damage in return for accuracy necessity) taken to a more extreme level, to the point of frustrating uselessness.

I think Sharp should lose some versatility and be more like this, but nowhere near this extent. A major part of that would be a big change to the M14 and loss of handguns' application to the perk.
(and optionally give those handguns to a gunslinger, who could serve the 'jack of all trades, but a master of none' role)

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

I've fired an AT4

from the hip?

actually don't even bother saying yes to that question......

 

[nutterbutter]

from the hip?

actually don't even bother saying yes to that question......

Nope. But still "I don't think one recoilless rocket is much different from another recoilless rocket." It isn't the same thing as shooting an M2. I've cut a car in half with one of those. And "no", I didn't fire it from the hip either.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

ok so to put this point to rest.......

Thats not exactly the same as a sniper rifle. Theres nothing stopping you from hipshooting with rifles, but try that with a rocket launcher or alike and youll most likely end up blowing yourself up.

Not really.

YES really.

And "no", I didn't fire it from the hip either.

so firing a LAW from the hip is absolutely nothing like firing a rifle from the hip...... that was the initial arguement you were making, not is there a difference between two types of recoiless rockets

 

[HaTeMe]

Then why use it? Small clip means nothing because people will simply stack them on the deck. And who is going to use it if there is a long delay? Balancing means still having a reason to use the weapon but it doesn't overwhelm everything.
.

Why use it...? Everyones using crossbow and it also has a delay beetween shots and only 40 shots overall. And, I said small clip not overall ammo, so the sniper could have something like 150 ammo overall but 10 in a single clip or something. Delay beetween the shots could be approx the same as the crossbow has, maybe less but still some delay so you cant just spam it like you do with m14.

If the sniper rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game damage wise, explain me hows it gonna be balanced if theres no limitations to its firing speed, clipsize or overall ammo? This permanent scope you suggested is more of an annoyance than anything else, especially with this insane 12x zoom. I dont think any core map is big enough for that, probably not even farm due the fog.

Personally I wouldnt use a weapon which gives me a one second delay every time equipped and throws me directly to a scope with 12x zoom, basically making me blind...

so firing a LAW from the hip is absolutely nothing like firing a rifle from the hip...... that was the initial arguement you were making, not is there a difference between two types of recoiless rockets

Exactly. You COULD fire a recoiless rocket from hip, but that would be stupid and pointless while firing a rifle from hip would actually be recommended if the enemy happens to stand on your face.