Ok, I think I've figured out how to implement a sniper perk

[Aze]

So you wanna add a Sniper perk, when we have the Sharpshooter?
Go ahead and add a Rocket Launcher perk then too, when we have the Demolitions.
Or add a Machine Gun perk, when we have the Commando.
Or why not add a Fighter perk, when we have the Berserker. Maybe also a Barbarian one, or a Lumberjack...

Come on Nutterbutter, you are making a fool out of yourself...

 

[nutterbutter]

so firing a LAW from the hip is absolutely nothing like firing a rifle from the hip...... that was the initial arguement you were making, not is there a difference between two types of recoiless rockets

Nope. Your point was that firing a LAW from the hip would likely up in blowing that person up. My reply was "Not really." THAT was my point. That it should be perfectly safe to shoot a recoilless rocket from the hip. And I still don't see how it wouldn't be.

 

[nutterbutter]

So you wanna add a Sniper perk, when we have the Sharpshooter?
Go ahead and add a Rocket Launcher perk then too, when we have the Demolitions.
Or add a Machine Gun perk, when we have the Commando.
Or why not add a Fighter perk, when we have the Berserker. Maybe also a Barbarian one, or a Lumberjack...

Come on Nutterbutter, you are making a fool out of yourself...

Are you always this much of an ***? Everyone has been clamoring about sniper rifles I thought I had figured out a way to include them. Still it is fun to watch you get annoyed with something (God only knows why) and then you just keep on going and going and going...

Oh, BTW, there are rockets without a rocket launcher perk and the rockets aren't in the Demolitions perks.

 

[C_Gibby]

Oh, BTW, there are rockets without a rocket launcher perk and the rockets aren't in the Demolitions perks.

That gives me an idea....

I remember when KF retail was new and there wasn't any "tiers." It was just sidearm, primary weapon and special weapon. A real definition of a "special" weapon is the LAW. It didn't belong to any perk, it had a high price, it was useful to everyone and it behaved differently to all other weapons in the game.

If it was assigned to a perk, it would be given a "tier" but that never happened.

If it was assigned to a perk, it would have bonuses that make the weapon obsolete for people who don't play as the designated perk.


Nutter's trying to compare this sniper rifle with the LAW when KF retail was still a baby. A giant sniper rifle that was good for anyone to use, but with a massive weight value and price making it hard to take control of and it dealt massive damage in a certain style. The same idea could be put towards a Heavy machine gun.

For example:

• LAW blows things up. Massive damage in a radius (can kill yourself). It does an explosive role better than anything else. Has to be aimed to be fired.
• Anti-material sniper rifle makes incredible headshots. Slow RoF, and not usable in close range. It does a sniping role better than anything else. Has to be aimed whilst crouching to be fired at distant targets.
• LMG has a massive ammo capacity with very high RoF and decent damage. It does a crowd-controlling role better than anything else. Has a hipshooting system similar to RO's MG-34. You have to "aim" to hipfire the weapon, whilst moving slowly. Otherwise, the weapon is held in a sort of sideways position.
• *other ideas*

They're extremely expensive and heavy and act as the game's unique superweapons that you only get rarely. They're not easy to use, but when mastered, they are deadly. They don't receive any bonuses, discounts or anything like that.

An extra idea:

In a balanced world of KF, the Anti-material rifle can be the same as the crossbow as we have it now. One-shot kills on Fleshpounds. The balance here of course, is the extreme price of the weapon and the vulnerability when crouching and aiming.



This post deserves it's own thread, I think. Might as well do that when I can be bothered.

 

[CA_Hiro]

Overall, I agree and dissagree on what you are suggesting
the overall 3 special weapon suggestion, you made was just the "best" weapon capable of doing the purpose of it. Quick elimination, crowd-control and uhm. Quick elimination & Crowd control

• LAW blows things up. Massive damage in a radius (can kill yourself). It does an explosive role better than anything else. Has to be aimed to be fired.

Might as well just be the best weapon to the Demolition as the alter choice instead of the 2 nade launchers, but then cause of the ridiculously high weight, he can't carry pipes either

• Anti-material sniper rifle makes incredible headshots. Slow RoF, and not usable in close range. It does a sniping role better than anything else. Has to be aimed whilst crouching to be fired at distant targets.

The same idea here. Could just be the alter choice instead of the xbow, you use the Anti-material rifle.

*SIDE NOTE*
Wouldn't it be nerfing a sniper rifle that much be ridiculous unrealistic as how the LAW is right now?

Anyway, if there has to be a sniper, it has to be a decent sniper, which almost does the same job as the Xbow, otherwise it has to be much more powerful, which also means being so powerful that it almost onehits Patty (or am I wrong?)

• LMG has a massive ammo capacity with very high RoF and decent damage. It does a crowd-controlling role better than anything else. Has a hipshooting system similar to RO's MG-34. You have to "aim" to hipfire the weapon, whilst moving slowly. Otherwise, the weapon is held in a sort of sideways position.

As for this one, I can't really put this weapons in the hands of the Commando, though the job of spotting enemies earlier and being able to see the zeds is good, the LMG needs it's perk of it's own IMO, like the LMG suggestion, there is somewhere on the forum.

This post deserves it's own thread, I think. Might as well do that when I can be bothered.

Sure it does. But it sure do needs some more thinking, my good sir.

 

[CandleJack]

An anti-materiel rifle would be quite powerful, and possibly hard to implement.

A good example of an anti-materiel rifle is the Barrett M82A1 12.7x99mm NATO firing sniper rifle. Developed by Ronnie Barrett in the 1980's specifically for this purpose, it has racked up kills at over 2km away. That's like 6000 miles or something. The M82's street name is the Barrett .50 cal. You could also choose any 12.7 NATO rifle that's bolt-action as an alternative.

I prefer the Barrett M99 12.7mm NATO rifle. It is single shot, meaning it has to have a round manually fed into the ejection port and the bolt pushes it into the chamber. This style would help balance out the high damage output of the weapon, with the 20-25 rounds that people insist the Xbow should have.

 

[CA_Hiro]

I prefer the Barrett M99 12.7mm NATO rifle. It is single shot, meaning it has to have a round manually fed into the ejection port and the bolt pushes it into the chamber. This style would help balance out the high damage output of the weapon, with the 20-25 rounds that people insist the Xbow should have.

But again. What about the damage. How much damage are we talking about? that kind of weapon should also make some serious damage?

 

[YoYoBatty]

A good example of an anti-materiel rifle is the Barrett M82A1 12.7x99mm NATO firing sniper rifle. Developed by Ronnie Barrett in the 1980's specifically for this purpose, it has racked up kills at over 2km away. That's like 6000 miles or something.

Thats my new signature!

 

[CandleJack]

But again. What about the damage. How much damage are we talking about? that kind of weapon should also make some serious damage?

It would have some massive damage, but about even with the crossbow, for balance.

I'll make this chart with random numbers to illustrate my idea, ok?

9mm = 40 damage
HC = 70 damage
LAR = 80 damage
M14 = 75 damage
M99 = 130 damage
Xbow = 160 damage

These aren't even accurate to the damage proportions but they serve my purpose.
The M99, or shall we say BAR? is to fill in as an alternate option for the Xbow, with a faster projectile with severely decreased penetration. This is so that only headshots will penetrate the target into the next, stopping after 2.

*The price will also be jacked up a bit, to around 800-1200.
*The recoil will also be very high, about the same as the M14, before perk bonuses kick in. Although i don't see why *recoil is that important with this particular weapon, but high recoil is pretty fair.
*It will also take up all 14 weight slots, so you either get good with the 9mm or get your team to help.

For reference here is a large picture:

Spoiler!

This gun weighs 11.4kg (25lb). for comparison, the SCAR weighs 3.8kg (6.7lb)

 

[CA_Hiro]

I like your example and the ideas of the anti-material rifle, but because of the looks, I just think it looks so powerful

What about this sniper rifle then?

The United States Rifle M14

Weight: 4-5kg
Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic
Muzzle velocity: 2,580 ft/s (790 m/s)
Effective Range: 600-800m
Magazine Size: 5-, 10- or 20-size

 

[C_Gibby]

I like your example and the ideas of the anti-material rifle, but because of the looks, I just think it looks so powerful

If it can one-shot a Fleshie, then it will work. And it would be balanced because of the minus points of using/getting the gun and the crossbow could be nerfed.

(not in a thinking mood right now )

 

[CA_Hiro]

If it can one-shot a Fleshie, then it will work.

If we try to realize it (realize a FP? Yeah, why not? >_>) Most snipers should be able to one shot it. So why a powerful weapon? If we use a anti-material rifle it should at least be able to take 3/4 of pattys health, no matter what difficulty, it is.

... the minus points of using/getting the gun and the crossbow could be nerfed.

Minus points from using/getting what?

 

[C_Gibby]

If we try to realize it (realize a FP? Yeah, why not? >_>) Most snipers should be able to one shot it. So why a powerful weapon? If we use a anti-material rifle it should at least be able to take 3/4 of pattys health, no matter what difficulty, it is.

Minus points from using/getting what?

You'd need a powerful weapon for headshotting an FP because if you look, the FP's head is mostly metal.

The minus points of getting this powerful rifle would be the cost and the weight, etc.

 

[Sammers]

Isnt this just what the ss was supposed to be?

Exactly. I'd rather fix the SS.

 

[CandleJack]

I like your example and the ideas of the anti-material rifle, but because of the looks, I just think it looks so powerful

What about this sniper rifle then?

The United States Rifle M14

Weight: 4-5kg
Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic
Muzzle velocity: 2,580 ft/s (790 m/s)
Effective Range: 600-800m
Magazine Size: 5-, 10- or 20-size

I'd prefer an Enfield EM2. Although it's a fully automatic battle riflebut it can fire semi auto. It features a scope as standard, it's British and is a good quality bullpup. It's chambered in 7x43mm Mk1Z, or alternately 7.62 NATO. The latter must have been done after the decision to standardise weapons to 7.62x51mm, otherwise the Brits would have used it in the 50's and 60's. It is visually similar to the SA80/L85 rifles, and it may have influenced them in their design process.

And a picture:

Spoiler!

 

[Uk1t4k3]

Sniper perk could be implement to prove it's role is better at taking targets from very far distances than sharpshooter. By doing so you will have to remove crossbow bonuses away from sharpshooter and plant it over to sniper perk. Also a way to balance it is to increase weapon weight size to max so that they will not be able to defend them from close range thus relying on sharpshooter for that.

 

[YoYoBatty]

Me and Jack-Carver are making an M99 Anti Material Rifle btw so yeah its no turning back now.

 

[human_gs]

Pointless thread

First, I don't care what the sniper rifles are. Everyone can debate which models and how much damage is done (and pretty much everything below). What I am suggesting is how snipers are implemented.

Agree on that one though, it's not really relevant and I hate it when people posts threads talking about weapon names rather than a real balance reason for them to exist. That's the problem though, there is no real balance reason for a new sniper to be implemented. Xbow is KF's sniper rifle and does it's work very well. If you're going to add a new sniper they should remove xbow or change it completely, but I don't think that will ever happen.

1) Sniper rifles can not be fired from the hip. Equipping the sniper rifle immediately brings the scope up to the shooter's eye.

That would be extremely annoying and basically broken. Crippling gameplay is a lame solution for balancing.

2) Equipping either sniper rifle takes a full second. This second is to for the shooter to acquire his stance, bring the weapon up, and get a good sight picture. Switching from the sniper rifle takes a full second.

How about allowing a very inaccurate hip shooting and taking a second to aim properly? Maybe making it awkward to shoot standing up? I think that should do it.

3) The tier 4 weapon has a 12x zoom. It is a single shot bolt action rifle and there is a 1.5 second delay between shots. Maximum 20 shots.

Again, making a weapon deliberately flawed is a lame solution for gameplay, such a ridiculous zoom is out of the question. I'm all for low ammo though (that could be implemented to the Xbow, the already existing sniper). The delay should be shorter but should require the player to go back to hip stance to load the next round.

4) The tier 3 weapon has a 6x scope and is semi-automatic. There is a 1 second delay between shots. Five shot magazine. Maximum 30 shots.

Two more snipers? That's kinda unnecessary. Plus the tier 4 would be worse due to ridiculous zoom.

5) At the current balance level, I've got no problem with the tier 4 weapon4 single shot headshot the scrake. If there is a rebalance (which I hope) then 2 headshots for the kill.
6) Tier 4 weapon penetrates 3 targets. Tier 3 penetrates 2.
7) The tier 4 weapon weighs 9 and the tier 3 weighs 7.

A heavy weapon with slow rate of fire, good headshot damage for big ZEDs and penetration to take out many small ones? Isn't there a weapon that already has that role? Again, you're just thinking of a more glitchy xbow with a different model.

8) Perk level bonuses are a tenth of a second less delay per shot per level and additional ammo.

Kind of a pointless gimmick.

Ok, here is my thinking...

Before trying to come up with a new weapon and proper balancing you should have thought why that weapon is needed in the first place. In this case, it's not, so you should stick to trying to balance the current ones.

 

[Vaecrius]

I think everything he says here is applicable to KF. At any rate, given we have the crossbow what meaningful gameplay difference would adding a "sniper rifle" add?

 

[EricFong]

Me and Jack-Carver are making an M99 Anti Material Rifle btw so yeah its no turning back now.

Can i see a WIP shot? :IS2: