Sharpshooter overpopulation

[SocksFoHands]

They probably should give the M14 less ammo, I'm not sure I agree with a nerf or removing the laser though. I've played across all the difficulty levels and I don't see this as the huge game breaking issue some people make it out to be. Getting 6 sharp shooters in a game has happened to me twice I think.

Both times we died too so it can't be that imbalanced. Bottom line it is a situation that needs a slight tweak but it's far from game breaking.

 

[DocDave]

Less ammo is a nerf.

I've only seen 6 SS in a game a few times myself.

However, SS is at least 2 or 3 times as common as some perks, easily the most common perk right now, and I have never seen a 6 FB or 6 Zerker game. In fact, if I see 2 FB it's already unusual.

 

[SocksFoHands]

Certainly they're the most common but 2-3 SS is actually quite a handy number to have in a suicidal game, mostly I only see one or two. And by nerf I meant damage reduction.

Reducing the ammo capacity of that gun wouldn't be a nerf anyway because there is no way you could go through all the ammo for it in a single round unless you were purposefully wasting ammo. Most people probably wouldn't notice the difference.

It might make them think twice about mindlessly spamming without aiming which is what most the SS complaints seem to be about.

 

[DocDave]

2-3 SS is actually quite a handy number to have in a suicidal game

This would actually be a sign that the other perks need to be brought up to par one way or another.

 

[9_6]

Reducing the ammo capacity of that gun wouldn't be a nerf anyway because there is no way you could go through all the ammo for it in a single round unless you were purposefully wasting ammo. Most people probably wouldn't notice the difference.

If you only had 100 shots you'd eat those words.

 

[SocksFoHands]

If you only had 100 shots you'd eat those words.

That's my point, 300 rounds is an obscene amount of ammo for a sharp shooter weapon.

 

[Jake48.2]

While I agree that the ammo available for the Tier 3 is insane, I'd say 120 would be a fair number. The main problem with the Sharpshooting weapons being use for run and gun is, well, you can run and gun with them. Since the LAW has proven you can prevent run and gun tactics by not allowing you to fire no scoped, I think the SS weapons should have a similar disadvantage. Perhaps having to be crouched for at least one second before firing would be the appropriate nerf for both rifles and the crossbow. I play demo with a LAR backup, and I find it obscenely easy to pick off zombies with the LAR while running. I usually suck no-scoping with rifle type weapons in most FPS's, even with a HUD crosshair , so it is a visible problem when I can pick off a small mob of zombies with 10 shots no scoped.

 

[Johnyfive]

Fleshpounds are the reason

Fleshpounds are the reason

Just wanted to add another note I believe contributes to the Overpop. Most of the maps, stock ones at least and a good number of whitelisted maps, require your squad be able to defend 2 (or more) points of entry. This boils down 2 (or more) ways for Flesh Pounds to attack the squad. And the best way to deal with a Flesh Pound is a single sharpshooter shot from a crossbow.

Now in addition to adding just one SS for every POE, you end up adding multiples of the class since each of the 5 randos that joined your game thinks THEY are a better SS for the job of keeping the team safe from FPs. In summation, because SS is the clear choice for tackling FPs (simply because no OTHER perks have any distinct advantage) you can expect an extra SS for all entry points in your holdout. Or extra multiples of them depending on your estimation of human nature.

My overarching point is that there are a lot of SSs because you "need" them. The EBR could come with 20 rounds and 4 round magazines, or deleted altogether and we'd still have an abundance of them because they are the FP class. There aren't more sharpshooter these days because they added an m14 to the game--even though that's the exact time the "problem" became evident--there's a lot of them because they can 1 shot FPs in 6 man suicidal games and if someone isn't doing that more squads wipe than should. FPs take less head damage to kill now than before the patch, they used to take 3 crossbow headshots now they take one, and SSs didn't get a triple damage boost from rank 5 to 6. Husks are more of a team Zed than FPs are now.

 

[Prostagmo]

Just wanted to add another note I believe contributes to the Overpop. Most of the maps, stock ones at least and a good number of whitelisted maps, require your squad be able to defend 2 (or more) points of entry. This boils down 2 (or more) ways for Flesh Pounds to attack the squad. And the best way to deal with a Flesh Pound is a single sharpshooter shot from a crossbow.

Now in addition to adding just one SS for every POE, you end up adding multiples of the class since each of the 5 randos that joined your game thinks THEY are a better SS for the job of keeping the team safe from FPs. In summation, because SS is the clear choice for tackling FPs (simply because no OTHER perks have any distinct advantage) you can expect an extra SS for all entry points in your holdout. Or extra multiples of them depending on your estimation of human nature.

My overarching point is that there are a lot of SSs because you "need" them. The EBR could come with 20 rounds and 4 round magazines, or deleted altogether and we'd still have an abundance of them because they are the FP class. There aren't more sharpshooter these days because they added an m14 to the game--even though that's the exact time the "problem" became evident--there's a lot of them because they can 1 shot FPs in 6 man suicidal games and if someone isn't doing that more squads wipe than should. FPs take less head damage to kill now than before the patch, they used to take 3 crossbow headshots now they take one, and SSs didn't get a triple damage boost from rank 5 to 6. Husks are more of a team Zed than FPs are now.

Yes, i agree with you... and it's nothing wrong with 3 ss per squad, as they are XBow snipers, and overwatch fp, scrakes or mobs near other mates... it's the most natural thing want to keep away the fps... the problem is with the ones who picks m14 and starts shooting to anything that moves, without aiming, or doing tentative aiming just for close distances... so those ss, kill a lot of mobs, but dont watches over fps FOR the team, a crossbowman kills fp quickly from distance, the m14 ss doesn't because he is busy spending bullets in near enemies... if the fp spawns in that way, fine, he kills it effortlessly with 3? hs...

m14 it's a good idea to add as a ss weapon, but at this time it's not really a ss weapon... many actual SSs, don't even had the enough skill to be called SS, just abuse of m14 capabilities

i think just by those changes, m14 can be a true ss weapon:
-less ammo, 10 - 9 clips
-laser removed
-little more recoil
-little less firing rate, just like single hc (right now its like dual beretta's firing rate) or reloading speed reduced a little.

the point, it to do the weapon designed to aim as main damage, or firing for close quarter combat.

 

[DocDave]

What you're saying, JohnnyFive, partly is caused by this underlying issue:

Everyone right now, including SS, can reliably take care of the "sweeper's job."

The SS, however, is about 3x as good as anyone else at taking care of the big guys, Scrake and especially FP. (I'm including SS weapons like xbow in the broad term "SS.")

This discrepancy will not be corrected by any amount of map changes, and there are only two ways of fixing it: Make everyone else good at killing FP and scrake as well, or reduce the ability of SS to sweep effectively.

Personally, I'm voting for the latter, since I'd rather see every perk be different than the same old carbon copies with slightly different weapon skins.

 

[izak]

That laser can be so inconsistent as it is, its frustrating. I have learned not to rely on it at all. It will mark a wrong target about a foot away from the intended target regularly. Its possible the m14 knows how much i hate it and is being spiteful.

An ammo decrease seems feasible. But the funny thing is, i dont even need the m14. I just use a pistol for clots, gores, bloats, stalkers, and crawlers. sirens, scrakes and fleshpounds get a crossbow bolt to the face. And as a level 6 SS i get both of those right off, all i need is some armor (maybe) and ammo (easily found).

meh.

 

[kfhero]

Well i didnt read the first 7 pages of this, but im going to add my 2 cents, and hope that im not repeating others in this thread.

The fact is that the sharp class in a skilled players hands (mine) can sweep just as well as the commando with the 9mm. Because the scrake hit box was fixed and the FP decap was taken out, the xbow now dominates, the ebr can be a win gun.

The scrake used to be a pain, but was manageable, as i could land the headshot (no decap) but it would drop him in one shot everytime. From the scrakes right side he was arguably the hardest specimen to kill...now if u ear hole him he drops 100% of the time.

The FP decap fix was the worst thing that happened to this game. Even though a 9mm or a knife could decap (and that doesnt seem right) it was a risk to get within close range and try the decap...knowing a fail would rage him and you were more than likely dead. And would further damage and panic your team (if they were left) this also gave every class a chance to take down FPs (with the right timing). Something that a medic can no longer due (unless he has an xbow...which is abused and cheap)

Coming from someone that has played suicidal since the middle of june (and i havent played lower since) suicidal has lost its prestige and challenge as now every major class (sharp, commando and support) can now all deal enough damage to individually take over the game! Not to mention the demo class IMO has made this game such a joke with pipebombs that drop FP and scrakes 100% of the time.

 

[Skunkee]

i think, it's an insuficient amount of bullets, because it's more of a sharpshooter rifle with the cqb role, or a not a camping one... this rifle doesn't stun big enemies (scrake to lower specs) as lever rifle does, in later waves when there's a full party, the amount of enemies will overwhelm the ss if only had 100 bullets or 120... right now, it has 14 mags 14x20 = 280 bullets way too much... but, 10x20 = 200 or 9x20 = 180... that's enough for a sharpshooter...

It's actuall 300 rounds currently. You have 20 in the gun, and 14 mags of 20 rounds. 15 x 20 = 300.

Honestly though, as someone that has a rank 5 sharpshooter and plays on suicidal pretty frequently, the gun only needs to have like 120 rounds max. 20 in the gun + 5 full magazines. Given its spammy nature, having a smaller ammo pool would encourage sharpshooters to be more accurate and aim for heads.

other reason, it's a tier 3 weapon... for "heavy" surviving, suicidal and hard... u cant do it, even if u are a monster head popping machine if alone, in wave 4; if had only 100 bullets (unless, the rifle does more dmg per shot and had penetration which it doesn't actually have)

I survive wave 4 on suicidal solo consistently using the LAR. On later waves when I have a M14, I barely go through 80-100 rounds on solo until about wave 10, where I usually die to multiple fleshpounds. I can understand the need for a bit more ammo in team games since the specimen count is obviously going to be higher, but it's just not fun for the rest of the team when you have one level 6 sharpshooter mopping up all the kills. Whether they're shooting the burning specimens that the firebug lights up, or they 2 shot the scrake that the berserker is attempting to delay/stun, it's just boring for the rest of the team.

less important, let's take a look at the prices of the sharpshooter (lvl 6) weapons... lever rifle $200, hc $150, cross $400, m14 $800... so, it must be a good weapon, at least better than lever and hc... can't compare with xbow.

It more than compares with the crossbow, given its damage/rate of fire ratio. The crossbow has such a slow rate of fire because of its damage.

compare it, with scar and aa12... aa12 by it's self has 120 shells, and it's a terrible zombie cleaner xD, scar kills a lot, and has 375 bullets, each one kills bye hs a gorefast... but not husk, just like m14.

The SCAR is another matter altogether (because it's fairly expensive even at rank 6), but yeah I'll agree that the AA12 is pretty much garbage.

 

[Nanostrike]

This topic isn't accomplishing anything anymore. Just repeating what people already know...

 

[CannibalBob]

I've made this suggestion on SPUF and want to bring it here;

Make FPs still enrage and charge directly at players after being beheaded (instead of running around randomly); they'll still 'bleed out' after 15s or w/e though. This would make other classes important.

The good ol' xbow will still be useful as a headshot does a lot of damage, but it won't be a one-hit kill.

 

[nath2009uk]

That idea is bad.
They run and instakill me in DA2 even after I decap them.

they just need no extra damage to the head, so I can't headshot them in 3 shots with the LAR.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

It's ironic when even the people who demand "proof" that the SS/M14 is broken admit they need to be nerfed.

you amaze me with your posts....glad to see two threads got locked already, this one is getting close.

people like myself will say that the m14 should be "nerfed" to an extent by reducing ammo capacity. however, what we are arguing is that the SS perk is not "broken" as you so foolished claimed. one weapon does not break a perk. did corrected hitboxes break the SS perk because they can actually do something against top tier specimen now??

the SS "overpoplution" does not break the game. period. people claim that there are servers with 6 SS that rape the game like it's nothing......so i'd like to see video confirmation of this. still waiting.....

 

[DocDave]

one weapon does not break a perk.

Well, let's not take the word of TWI for it or anything.

 

[Reise]

Opinions aside, Sharpshooter is far from "broken."

In fact, I'd say it's the least broken perk in the game.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Hold your horses people, back up a bit; A fair bit of this is just hype because of the fixed hitboxes. Try grabbing a Lever Action, on suicidal 6 man you can keep a scrake stunlocked. and on hard solo it decaps a fp with 2 or 3 headshots.

Alot of the newly discovered power in some classes is (IMO) probably in part due to the fact that you can get headshots.