Criticism for TWI - useful for their next game

[Solo4114]

I feel that many gamers are being led astray by hype, good graphics and sequels of games that have long stopped being as good as they used to be, and I feel that many people aren't playing games for the right reasons anymore. No one played Pacman because of its awesome graphics or how those ghosts were "so realistic", they played for fun, and that should be just as true with todays games as it was then.
Now go forth TWI, go forth and have fun. . . while you make fun!

Abso-friggin-lutely. People get sucked into franchises and keep buying games to chase the high they got from the original. The BF series is a prime example. BF1942 was fantastic. All subsequent games are far below it. From what I can gather, this is also true of the COD games, which started out as pretty impressive, and now are basically just an excuse to show off eye candy with tiny MP gameplay and short SP campaigns (if you can even call it a campaign at 5 hours of play).

The shame of it is that gamers seem to be a pretty non-descriminating lot anymore. They just don't seem to care that the last game in the series was mediocre, poorly supported, and covered its striking lack of features with "unlockables" or whathaveyou. They get wowed by ZOMG!! LOOKIT DA GRAFIX!!!! and shell out their cash again. And, of course, the reviewing magazines and websites aren't any better, since they're apparently staffed with people who are no different from the gaming market at large -- driven by hype and ZOMG GRAFIX!! while ignoring otherwise ho-hum gameplay.

 

[PUTZ]

....And, of course, the reviewing magazines and websites aren't any better, since they're apparently staffed with people who are no different from the gaming market at large -- driven by hype and ZOMG GRAFIX!! while ignoring otherwise ho-hum gameplay.

but isn't that the whole basis of media? to review what most people go for.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Unfortunately, without actually playing a game and seeing how good it is, you are usually left looking at pictures in a magazine (the game's graphics) or maybe a video of the game in action (again, mostly the game's graphics).

It's probably much harder to sell a game based more on it's gameplay if it's graphics are only average. So the graphics do need to be good, just not at the expense of gameplay. My opinion.

 

[Slyk]

"Marketing". Get the lazy-a$$ publisher to actually spend money on marketing the game. Very sad what happened with this release. Nothing, anywhere compared to most games. The community could have been much larger.

 

[Zetsumei]

the main publisher was steam, and steam actually brought quite some attention actually. Without steam ostfront would never have been released.

Bold was the only retail publisher they could find, believe me we should be grateful that it got published and quite widely too ^^.

 

[Yoshiro]

I see alot of good comments here that I am sure Tripwire will take to heart.

So please keep the lists coming.

 

[Slyk]

the main publisher was steam, and steam actually brought quite some attention actually. Without steam ostfront would never have been released.

Bold was the only retail publisher they could find, believe me we should be grateful that it got published and quite widely too ^^.

Steam schmeam. A lot more people don't play on Steam than do. More ads, more PR. The coverage was really disappointing.

 

[BubbaG]

I'm sure it's nothing TWI doesn't know but advertise..advertise..advertise!!! Once the new game comes out you need to promote it through alternative outlets.(ie... liveleak.com, youtube.com, myspace.com). If the game is going to still be based off the Eastern Front, AND IT BETTER, then you can always rename it to give the game a fresh start. The people that currently own the game will still buy the new one even though it's under a new title. Once you conduct a media blitz before it's release you can then relax on the advertisement as word of mouth has way more effect on sales then printed words or short demo videos.

I know the myspace.com sounds corny but there are a lot of little rugrats and high schoolers out there that live on that stuff and would eat something up like Red Orchestra.

Different uniforms would be nice too. I already mentioned introducing the other axis/allied countries, but give the players choices at the start up screen of varying their uniforms (camoflage, para smocks, Russian one piece sapper camo suits, ability to wear white suits or not during winter maps, helmets or soft caps).

If you go the route of including a single player campaign then make it super uber mod friendly for skins, vehicles, weapons, sound effects, and visual effects.

Somehow make a 50 player TWI controlled multiplayer campaign server that starts on Jun 22, 1941 and ends at the gates of Berlin. Create a visual map of Eastern Europe so players can track movements of armies. Player participation determines the winners, not history. As you progress in maps you introduce new vehicles/equipment that fit with the time lines. Make sure this server has auto balancing so maps are rolled one way or the other. On the visual map list destroyed tanks and killed infantry on both sides for battlefield immersion

New and improved Team killing/cheating system. Appoint multiple hardcore Red orchestra as mods on your servers so retribution can be swift and painful for players that destroy the game for others. There should be enough mods so all times zones and times of day are covered.

Just some ideas to chew on...

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Steam schmeam. A lot more people don't play on Steam than do. More ads, more PR. The coverage was really disappointing.

He's right. While Steam can be a good thing and will probably get better as time goes on, I know people who will not purchase ROOST because of Steam. A few others have it and despite that, curse Steam endlessly.

Another thing is the Price. Now one of the primary reasons I bought the game was the price, if I didn't like it, it only cost me $22.49 off of Steam (unlike COD2 - $59.99 big mistake). Keeping the price low can be a good thing, however, I do know on one occasion when I was in WalMart and saw two kids looking at ROOST. Because of the price, they were saying it either a cheap budget game or old. I mentioned I had it and it was great then moved on....don't know if they bought it or not. Damned if you Do, Damned if you Don't situation.

Another thing I just thought of was the original packaging. My son commented on this when he saw it in the store. He said the box art didn't do justice to the game, made it look sorta 'cartoony'. He said he wouldn't buy it based on the original box art.

Of course, all of the above are marketing concerns, and hopefully TWI will have a little input into that.

I am sure I will have more to add on later

 

[{8.SS}Bottcher]

And, of course, the reviewing magazines and websites aren't any better, since they're apparently staffed with people who are no different from the gaming market at large -- driven by hype and ZOMG GRAFIX!! while ignoring otherwise ho-hum gameplay.

I assume you don't read PCZone or PCGAMER magazine then, they base their ratings on everything, but each reporter makes their review a personal review. Many times when i read a review i see a phrase along the lines of: "This is perfect for gamers like me, but *Insert specific genre lover label* gamers may struggle to find the appeal that i do."

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I assume you don't read PCZone or PCGAMER magazine then, they base their ratings on everything, but each reporter makes their review a personal review. Many times when i read a review i see a phrase along the lines of: "This is perfect for gamers like me, but *Insert specific genre lover label* gamers may struggle to find the appeal that i do."

I think I still have that PCGamer review. It was an average review, but obviously they didn't play it much at the same time. Their comment about having a very limited view looking thru the vehicle vision slits comes to mind. OPEN UP THE HATCH

~edit~ but in all fairness, overall it was not a bad review...

 

[Nilsson]

I like the game and agree with the postiv facts in the posts before .

neagative
-you can not paly the game with few players like cod . There you got 2 friends irc and you can play funwars all night

-more explosions and interactions with the world would bring more fun in my opinion .

 

[entertainer]

I like the game and agree with the postiv facts in the posts before .

neagative
-you can not paly the game with few players like cod . There you got 2 friends irc and you can play funwars all night

-more explosions and interactions with the world would bring more fun in my opinion .

Huag exploshuns, moar imershun, moar motion bluuuur, omg its liek fun.

 

[Rak]

MG42 recoil, mantling / climbing, etc. These are all highly desired features.

MG42 recoil is perfect after the Fall Update. The only weird thing is the firing animation, because it doesn't fit to the recoil the weapon is firing which misleads you that the gun can't hit a barn. I'd just like them to fix the animation, and bring the Mod one back

 

[Solo4114]

"Marketing". Get the lazy-a$$ publisher to actually spend money on marketing the game. Very sad what happened with this release. Nothing, anywhere compared to most games. The community could have been much larger.

Yep. That's a big part of it. This actually (I think) connects to the reviewing mags issue.

Ever notice that the games that seem to get the best reviews -- despite having lackluster this or that -- are the ones that had tons of pre-release coverage, "Previews", banners on the site, hype, etc.?

I really think hype plays a BIG role in how at least some outlets review the game. Pre-release hype is also a great way to boost initial sales. I know plenty of gamers who will buy a game based solely on the "previews" they see in gaming mags and news they gather online. "OMG, this is gonna be AWESOME! Already pre-ordered."

Releasing an actual demo (as opposed to "free weekends" and such) may also help. For more skeptical gamers like me, a demo is a useful way to "preview" the game myself, without all the extraneous hype.

But anyway, I think a lot of the gaming mags are FAR more forgiving of the flaws in heavily marketed and hyped up games than they are of the otherwise unheard-of games that are just as solid but had less marketing push behind them.



So, I'd say:

- Work the PR route by giving plenty of pre-release info and interviews to gaming mags.

- Put out a demo (in addition to "free weekends/weeks" on Steam) that solidly displays what the product does.

- Build up the hype machine because you know you can deliver.



That last one is particularly important. I watched the hype around BF2 before it came out. I played the demo and really liked it. I played the full game and grew to despise it. I didn't preorder, but I did buy shortly after release. I know a LOT of people who preordered and were disappointed, though.

TWI does what it does very very well. Hype, in this case, would actually work to build the brand name. Unlike EA/Dice or other huge developers/publishers, hype for a TWI game needn't be used to highlight the good stuff (while simultaneously drawing attention from the bad), but rather can be used to showcase the game, and have that promise ultimately delivered to the gamer.

 

[Aeneas2020]

i've worked on some marketing for some major companies during my limited time working and i have to say advertising is great but it costs a lot of money...so while yes TWI needs to advertise a lot it may not have been cost effective for them to advertise as much as say EA or Activision could (i know those are pubs not devs but uget what im saying)...have to remember in the grand sea of games design TWI are mere guppies...hopefully with their next project they may make their way to Tuna or maybe even Remora status...and yes i've been watching far too much discovery channel recently.

 

[Solo4114]

Oh I don't mean to suggest they try to emulate EA. But I do think that EA's ability to do marketing blitzes ensures high sales figures for otherwise mediocre games.

 

[Aeneas2020]

cudn't agree more. In fact EA probably only puts out 1 good game a year (discarding sports franchises etc which ill get flamed on for saying the latest fifa/madden game isnt actually as good as everyone thinks but hey ho). But yeh their blanket marketing means they sell a lot of games. I guess if TWI wishes for their next project ill wear a t-shirt with the product name on it for 2 months prior to the release and do lots of crazy things in it trying to get the attention of TV crews etc, all in good taste however.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

but isn't that the whole basis of media? to review what most people go for.

I disagree.
A review shouldnt be written for a certain kind of gamer, but for all gamers.
Not everybody likes the same games. I know my tastes are far away from most mainstream gamers, at least.
Does that mean they shouldnt review games i like, wich might probably not be to the liking of others? Should i miss those gems just because i'm a minority?

Now, back on topic?

 

[pusspounder]

If you gonna do bullet drop and sniping weapons please include range adjustments please (and windage if possible).

Also the current game would be complete if range adjustments on the sniper scopes is included in some type of upcoming (last) patch. Then RO would be perfect!