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Beta Map RO-Kriegstadt Beta 2

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#342
I played the map only for the third time today, but from what i've seen so far it seems as if the first objective is a weak point: It's too hard for the Russians to cap and too easy for the Germans to just nade spam every cap attempt. Usually we (Ruskies) spent half the map duration on that objective which is not too much fun (although it does get much better afterwards). The first objective overall seems not very believable too me, esp. since i can't go around the building and attack the Germans from behind or else the map will kill me :/
 
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#343
Yeah, that frustrated me as well. Tanks should move up and cut German spawn, but they can't. So, they're PF victims all around the first objective.

BTW I was playing with you, and I can assure you that our team was really really made of newbies. They preffered to stay outside the building rather than storming it.
 
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#344
Rak, a T-34 MG gunner can cut off reinforcements at the first objective, but only the MG gunner. You can drop the tank at the far end of the first road, go right, go to left of the fake/dummy/whatever dead tank there. You can't depress your turret enough to use the main gun, except maybe at the wall above the running soldiers, but your MG gunner can depress enough to shoot 'em up. Hobo, if this is an intended feature, it might be worth leveling the hill slightly to allow the main gun to aim downward. I'm guessing it's not, though.

By the same token, MGs and other infantry can get in the same spot, but it's within easy nade range of the corner.
 
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#345
EvilHobo said:
So...what of perhaps a system where the IS2 & T-34 respawn every 20 seconds and become the mainstay of the Russian tank support, and the SU76 respawns every 120+ seconds? This would increase its value and cause for it to hang back further as an Assault Gun, but keep the medium and heavy tanks in play for infantry support close to or on the bridge itself, where they can take more than one faust hit (the SU76 can be killed by just one Panzerfaust).
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Pffht, just increase the time the SU-76 takes to spawn by a bit, and possibly decrease the amount of HE it has. Maybe give the Germans another PaK 41/43, possibly in a better concealed position.
 
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#346
Major von Mauser said:
Pffht, just increase the time the SU-76 takes to spawn by a bit, and possibly decrease the amount of HE it has. Maybe give the Germans another PaK 41/43, possibly in a better concealed position.
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I think this may be a better solution than mucking around and adding another tank. A change that drastic may throw things off too much. If you could somehow better conceal those PaK's that would do wonders. Despite the fact that they spawn randomly, Russian tankers are already starting to pick them off before the Germans can man them in the first place.

As to the first objective, it's not that hard to take once you realize there are at least three or more ways to get into that building. Proper use of nades, as well as MG cover from across the street make those apartments relatively easy to capture. Once you get in there, send in an MG guy and one or two support troops, rush up to the third floor, and voila, you just essentially cut off German reinforcements from coming in.
 
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#349
EvilHobo said:
Well, in Beta 1 there was excessive griping over rooms that were not lit well enough, though I can make the effort to tone it down to an intermediate value between Beta 1 and 2. I still want them to be slightly illuminated to make it seem as though there is sunlight in those rooms (unfortunately, sunlight actors do not project their light in to zones). The other issue is that of interior fighting being too dark, where players had a difficult time finding/recognizing their opponents. Of course, one of the suggestions I had previously received but since forgotten was to include lanterns inside of the buildings for some form of lighting.

It's something else I'll have to work on :x
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Hobo, if you care to check out Danzig for faking daylight in interiors, that will probably help you a lot.

You don't need the sunlight actor to properly light interiors which light that comes in through windows and holes. What you do is use individual spotlights at the windows that mimic light casting in from the outside (make sure you use warm-ish colors for sunlit sides and colder tones for shadow sides of buildings). The next step is to fake bouncing light in the room by placing very dim lights deeper in the room that mimics the daylight being diffused in the room bouncing off walls etc. Hope that helps.
 
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#351
Yeah, I used Danzig as a bit of inspiration for the interior lighting, as it was done rather well. All I was lacking were the spotlights, and I was thinking about how best to implement those yesterday. Will do some more Danzig dissection when I have time.

Thanks for the link Das, bookmarked :)

For everyone else, I've been trying to cut down on the forums whoring ('tis something of a problem), but I'll address the issues brought up:

About the first objective, the minefield and such is in place because originally, the German spawn was in front of the Dornburg Apts, between the ruins and the Command Post block. If a Russian tank pulled up, it would have had a clear line of sight to the German spawn. However, for Beta 2, the German spawn was pushed back so that they would have a longer run to the first objective. I do not feel though, at this point, that heavy modification to the play of the first objective is necessary. Sometimes it will fall quickly, other times -- as KrazyKraut mentioned -- it can be held for extended periods of time. All it takes is the tanks suppressing the windows so that the infantry can move up to take advantage of the three entrances to the building, clear it, and set up in the windows overlooking the Kaschadeplatz to cut off reinforcements (I've done this many a time). I still do not intend for the tanks to be making it behind the objective, as I want it to be captured before they can advance.

Boogerhead, what you are stating is not an intended feature, but its also not something that should probably have to go either. I'll look in to it. If it does become something I'd like to keep, I may consider opening the windows in the Apartments looking out to it, as I closed these to reduce the amount of BSP triangles on the outside (performance stuff).

In regard to the tank loadouts at the final objective, I am leaning toward the implementation of the T-34/85 & IS-2 combo. With better MGs, I think they will be effective at suppressing any Axis that get to the windows, and their HE will be effective at taking out anyone who ducks down/retreats inside. The SU76 will be available for the Moltke Bridge Approach (Objective 8), but it will be up to the Russians to keep it alive for the Bridge (watch out for the PaK!). With the kind of changes that will make an appearance for Beta 3, I'm going to have to ask that everyone trust me on this one. Kind of like how people thought a lack of smoke was pure madness, it seems to work out pretty well in the gameplay sense.

I do hope to have more cover on the Axis side of the bridge, for both Axis and Allies alike. If I receive civilian vehicles and the like, you will probably see those and a few Opel Blitzes. This should also encourage Allied players to get up from off of the far barricade and attempt to gain a foothold in the buildings.
 
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#352
I played this for the first time last night. It was the most intense fight I've had in RO and easily the most exhilarating - not to mention it involved some incredible teamwork on our (German) part. We held the bridge for 20 minutes. Not one Russian crossed further than halfway. If one MG went down, a rifleman would pick it up and keep firing. My only major gripe (having joined about halfway through the game) is that the tracers could probably use a little more visibility, and the MG42 seems a bit insane at times.

Regardless, I can't wait for the final version. This has a lot of potential.
 
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#356
The deciding factor on this map is the skill, tenacity and teamwork employed by each side. I just played 2 rounds as axis and they never made it past the hotel. You know why? It wasn't because we had magic weapons, or because we were exploiting, it was because overall our team had better players.

The second round we could have easily lost, since at 50 minutes left, we were already at the hotel with a difference of 4 in between our reins and timeleft (50 minutes left, 54% reinforcements). Yet we finished the map with 7% reinforcements.

We barely had anyone on voice comms, but the upper tier of players was in constant text communication, discussing the state of reins, calling out enemy positions, planning traps. That's how you win Kriegstadt.

Plus it helps the enemy tankers were really, really awful.
 
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#357
I feel its my duty to lodge a serious complaint about this map. Its totally spoiled RO. Completely ruined it.

Everytime i log in i spend ages scouring servers and looking for Kreigstadt. Time was Danzig was fun, Odessa a blast and Berezina like mana from heaven. And now youve gone a ruined that for me Hobo. I hope your ashamed of yourself :p.

ps- looking forward to Beta 3 :D
 
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#360
Hamburgerphil said:
The deciding factor on this map is the skill, tenacity and teamwork employed by each side. I just played 2 rounds as axis and they never made it past the hotel. You know why? It wasn't because we had magic weapons, or because we were exploiting, it was because overall our team had better players.

The second round we could have easily lost, since at 50 minutes left, we were already at the hotel with a difference of 4 in between our reins and timeleft (50 minutes left, 54% reinforcements). Yet we finished the map with 7% reinforcements.

We barely had anyone on voice comms, but the upper tier of players was in constant text communication, discussing the state of reins, calling out enemy positions, planning traps. That's how you win Kriegstadt.

Plus it helps the enemy tankers were really, really awful.
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Yeah, this is the perfect map to teach armour to advance and infantry to follow, using the armour as cover. Once they got us back to the bridge, the tanks and assault guns just went off and sat their asses in the park, while the infantry tried to cross open ground and got absolutely hacked by our 42s. They just didn't get it, though maybe next time it'll occur to them that tanks make pretty decent cover.
 
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