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Beta Map RO-TractorWorks Beta 4

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#21
Actually, I checked the spawn volume and it is there and functional. The Russians do have multiple routes out other than the gate to the north of the rail yard. I can add something to cut down the angle more though so I will look at that. I'm not crazy about the upped reinforcements as seems to be coming out lately. I may cut them 15 or 20. At some point people have to realize that they need to stop wasting lives over lost objectives and trade space for time/lives on the other end. It's getting hard on the Germans and you have to have a coordinated team. The other thing that I could do but want to avoid is locking out the first floor objectives if the upper level is capped. Generally, the more full the server, the better for the Germans. At least when I have played.

-- edited the 'mine' zone moving it up to the corner of the blown out building in the main plaza area. Germans will no longer be able to get an angle into the railyard. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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#22
I'm sure everyone is tired of feedback from me, but I just wanted to add the amount of sappers should be reduced from 3 to 2. Not to cater to clans, but rather, to cater to greater class dependency -- currently, you have at most, 3 out of 16 guys capable of being able to take out tanks, or clear rooms with their satchel charges. As minor a change as it is, by reducing it to 2, you have to make the team work harder to protect those engineers, and add to a greater degree of teamwork in getting tanks destroyed or other tasks requiring engineers.

Otherwise, I have nothing incredibly negative to say about the map. It's one of the most immersive ones out there, that's for sure.
 
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#25
Maybe a bit late for such a game-changing element but how about some visible weak points in the walls internal to the main admin building? - these can be satchelled out. Not too many - just 3-4 destructo-meshes in there.

It gives the German sappers (or possibly the Russians) something else to do and adds an element similar to what happens in Kessel.
 
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#27
I just love this map, it's all time my favourite! I've played some rounds against good, teamplaying Germans, while having teamplaying partners also - it was such a blast! Seriously, I'm a little bit jealous - if only I could make such realistic, well balanced maps!
Also, it's has good layout for my trusty MG - *with Borat's voice* niice. :)
Thank you, Slyk, thank you, AH!
 
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#28
aktionman said:
A question on the area A1 to C3 on the map: nothing ever seems to happen there. Is there a way to change something to include this area more into the play?

There are more such "neglected" areas on the map that are mostly just bypassed during play, which is a pity.
Click to expand...

I have tried to shape the map to keep the focus on the current objectives. Opening up to those areas you mention would really dilute the gameplay. Actually, if I had another month to work on it, I would have done things differently and used more of that section. One under-used area is the big apartment building on the northwest corner of the monument square. Snipers should always consider that one.

Nestor: Yes, I have thought about that. Originally I wanted to make all the interior walls destructable but opted not to load the server with "more" things to manage so I just opened a few holes. Had I done the right thing with a center hall and rooms to each side, then maybe I would include your idea. I was just thinking the other day that making an outside wall on the south wing a destructible would be a good idea (1south area).

Bolt: Thanks. Glad you enjoy it. Nice to hear!
 
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#29
The new Russian AT guns are vicious, but to a German tank crew who knows where they are and is ready for them, it's really not a big problem.

This is probably my absolute most favorite map, but it does have a lot of intricate balance methods that I think a lot of players don't pick up on. The map is balanced, but it's done so in very subtle ways.

I love it. Excellent work!
 
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#30
Some ideas:Cut the german sapper to two seems ok after removing sapper from russians :).German enginneers blow barricades sometimes they try to kill the mighty t34,i mean they have a purpose but russians have one PT rifle guy along with sappers,and this pt rifle can blow german tanks too.
Deleted second one...
btw i really loved the beta 2's reinforcements.Maybe you should cut Russians a little more.
P.S:AT gun on the second floor is invisible,at least to me,must be really close to see it.
 
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#31
Slyk said:
Actually, I checked the spawn volume and it is there and functional. The Russians do have multiple routes out other than the gate to the north of the rail yard. I can add something to cut down the angle more though so I will look at that. I'm not crazy about the upped reinforcements as seems to be coming out lately. I may cut them 15 or 20. At some point people have to realize that they need to stop wasting lives over lost objectives and trade space for time/lives on the other end. It's getting hard on the Germans and you have to have a coordinated team. The other thing that I could do but want to avoid is locking out the first floor objectives if the upper level is capped. Generally, the more full the server, the better for the Germans. At least when I have played.

-- edited the 'mine' zone moving it up to the corner of the blown out building in the main plaza area. Germans will no longer be able to get an angle into the railyard. Thanks for pointing that out.
Click to expand...

That sounds about right, a reduction of 20 reinforcements on the allie side with the 40 minute time limit would prob be ideal. I would even reduce it as much as 30 but no less or more than a total reinforcement level of 350-360.
 
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#33
=GG= Mr Moe said:
I like the idea of dropping the Russian reinforcements just a bit. If they have too many, the battle just doesn't seem that desperate.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Played Beta 3 a couple of times where the Russians ran out reinforcements with a couple of minutes left on the clock and still won. Seemed about right to me - the Germans could adopt a strategy of just trying to kill as many Russians as possible to try to run them out of reinforcements, and the Russians had to be mindful of this, but it seemed like it was pretty balanced overall. Those last few minutes, as Russian reinforcements dwindle, are a lot of fun no matter which side you're on. (Same with Berezina.)
 
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#34
Bat Guano said:
Agreed. Played Beta 3 a couple of times where the Russians ran out reinforcements with a couple of minutes left on the clock and still won. Seemed about right to me - the Germans could adopt a strategy of just trying to kill as many Russians as possible to try to run them out of reinforcements, and the Russians had to be mindful of this, but it seemed like it was pretty balanced overall. Those last few minutes, as Russian reinforcements dwindle, are a lot of fun no matter which side you're on. (Same with Berezina.)
Click to expand...

Actually in Beta 3 I think the Russians ran out of reinforcements too fast but now in Beta 4 they don't run out fast enough. As for Berezina the reinforcements are fine now, they use to run out too fast on that map before. If you can get it so that the reinforcements in most games reach 0% with a little less than a minute to go you have achieved good balance.
 
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#36
just played it! after downloading for 15 minutes lol

it sure had gotten better, the only downpoint for me is that it pepresents a part of the stalingrad battle right? and i don't get that stalingrad feeling with waves of enemy's coming at you, constant intense fights etc... it looks more like a skirmish, in one round of playing i didn't see more than 20 enemy soldiers, and never had more than 2 teammembers close to me.
this map is so big and detailed it deserves a 80vs80 server to come to it's full potential!

the AT guns are fantastic btw!
 
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#37
Nestor Makhno said:
Random thought.

Slyk - ever considered making a map with, like, 3 or 4 caps?:p :D
Click to expand...


Nope. Never. You got plenty of shoe box mappers. I'm your cargo container guy. I used to have some funny pictures poking fun at CoD2, I'll have to find them again.

SchutzeSepp: Only the middle ground seems to spread out teams, the fighting should be fairly focused over the first three objectives and then the gate into the admin. Depends on who you play with I suppose. But, yes, it is big but a fraction of 'Berezina'. The fighting at this stage of the battle was over this ground represented. Of course it was more bloody and slow but no one had respawn either and there were thousands of troops, at least hundreds fighting over the ground depicted. If I do a part 2 map, moving into the factory halls, that will be a lot different and give you that close-quarters mayhem.
 
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#38
* This is directed to those individuals...

Why in all of God's Creation does an individual manning the mg on the Halftrack feel he must alert the lone T-34 to the halftracks presence by emptying the drum into it? Who are these people and just what the hell are you trying to accomplish? Are you soooo bored you can't wait the ten seconds for the drive to the Admin Building that you have to fire the mg, and in the process probably get all your fellow passengers killed?

In many instances, you are able to 'bypass' the T-34 by speed and stealth (sorta) just by not alerting it to your presence. Firing the mg at it is almost always a dead giveaway in that a halftrack with at least two players is approaching. Having operated the T-34 in situations such as this, it just makes my laugh inside as I hear the bullets ping off the hull. Now I am aware of the previously unknown halftrack and I have time to train the cannon on the approaching vehicle.

Anyway, knock it off!!!

~ rant ended ~

PS: Love this map!!!

-------------------------------
* applies to all maps
 
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#39
Excellent map so far. I've certainly gotten a lot of hours on it as of late.

A couple of ideas for improvement... I think perhaps the tank respawn times shoud be increased. As a tanker (having played both sides), it seems like all you're doing is looking for the next tank. I'd like to see a little breathing room to engage infantry if you're able to repeatedly destroy the enemy tank(s).

The halftracks have become a problem for the Germans. Halftracks get to their targets, unload their crews, and just stay there until they are blown up. In the meantime, you've got 3 empty halftracks sitting at the objective, and 10 Germans in spawn, wondering why the halftracks aren't respawning.

And got I wish that Mark IV had at lease some hope of penetrating that T34. I seem to have figured it out in the Stug, but the MKIV is just a death trap. Short barrel?!? What were the Germans thinking?!?! ;)

I agree about the russian reinforcements too, we've slaughtered them endlessly and they never run out. Does certainly remove some of the desperate moments that should be felt in the last few minutes of the rounds.

Teamwork is important in this map, especially in the last 1/2 after the south commons and monument have been captured. If the Germans don't FOCUS on taking individual objectives, they will be annihilated. That last 1/2 is a defenders dream. The T-34 can take care of most of the onslaught, while the infantry can hunker down inside and pick off people as they run through the entrances.
 
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#40
KH Reese said:
Word up- they have 4 other ways to enter the building- if they keep charging straight into HE shells and MG fire without calling their tank over for help that's their fault.
Click to expand...

Well, saying a tank is the answer is absurd. The germans get 3, russians 1. Plus the germans get halftracks, which the russians dont. What the germans did then was load up 2 halftracks with men and they stormed our spawn (they didn't even bother with the Main Gate...which they never capped.

But spawning, just coming down the stairs (either set, there are only 2) to get to the fight and then someone with an MP40 gunning your down is not fun.

Having no spawn protection is just being lazy. Simply hoping that the good in people's hearts means something is stupid. Take 5 seconds in UED...
 
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