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A Message To The Modding Community

Due the recent goings on in and out of these forums I feel that I need to say something.

As modders we have absolutely no legal protection on the mods we make. We can only rely simple courtesy and etiquette. There has been far too much stealing from servers, decompiling, rewriting/editing then releasing without so much as a simple 'could I take a look the source for such a mod'. You'd be surprised what a simple bit of courtesy will get you. If you take interest in a project and asked the mod author if they'd be prepared to send you the source they'll probably oblige. Maybe answer any questions you may have. While I can't speak on behalf of every modder out there myself and a lot of others I know would certainly be more amiable if extended this simple courtesy.

We modders tend to learn the ropes by looking at the works of others and that in itself is nothing wrong. The problem is when you start tearing apart someone's work without even asking. I've already seen modded versions of weapons I've created and I've not released the assets. Now I'm not offended that someone has wanted to improve or change the original. What offends me is that I'm not even asked if I would mind.

Let's take two of my weapons as examples; the Colt Python and the Medic Shotgun.

The Colt Python I released the assets when I deemed that I was done with the project asking that two things be taken into consideration. One, credit where credit is due which is simple courtesy. The second is that you tell me what you've changed and why. Why's that? Well maybe I'd like to learn from what you've done. Hell knows I can't balance a weapon to save my life. Just the Colt Python Assets alone have been downloaded 147 times and no one has created even a private version? Even if I'm not going to play with it or it's never going to go outside of a LAN I asked that I be told what changed and why. That is all.

The Medic Shotgun on the other hand is very much a work in progress. I've released test versions of it with the intention of getting feedback. (Ignoring the slow development pace, I do have other commitments) Now if filefront is anything to go by I've had over 1000 combined downloads. Well I certainly haven't had nearly that amount of feedback. Fair enough. But I have now seen someone editing the medishotgun, while one, it's still a project I'm working on and two, not even asked me if they could do so. And they would have had to decompile packages to edit the code and models as I haven't released the assets.

Folks, it isn't hard to ask, have some consideration and respect to those that put time and effort into creating these mods, some of which are simply amazing. Not all of us are easy to get on with or talk to, we are human after all. But nothing is more annoying and frustrating to see our work being tampered without our consent. If this continues I can only see more mods not being released and being kept behind pass worded servers.

Regards,

Whisky aka Gartley

tl;dr
Please have the decency to ask before pulling apart and editing our work to create your own versions.
 
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I'm not involved in KF modding at all, but I can see how some of them used without your aknowledgement: for example, you shared on of your mods, then someone took it and created thread with it at some local forum where most people don't even speak english or somestuff, and then one of those people took it and decided to rework. How he is going to know who created it, how to contact him and why to contact him? He probably doesn't even know this forum exists + this thread(or he may know, but can't get there because of bad/no english/or he may know of something like this forum but for sure doesn't know you're the author and how to contact you).

I'm not protecting anybody, just a thoughts how this can be connected outside from lack of respect.
 
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I'll tell you what TrueLolzor - I haven't done anything beyond suggests and tests in this community, i'm just so busy. but i've worked with other peoples stuff before. And when I do, a simple google search for the filename or mod name gets you an author. 99% of the time. There's no excuse for piracy of this kind, because over half the time the author will say Sure, or give you a damn good reason why he's not wanting you to mess with it yet.

For example, some people don't understand teh principles of RENAMING, and cause version mismatching. Or maybe, like gartley's medi-shotty or the WPC Isaac skin Metal ripped off, ITS NOT EVEN DONE.

I'm behind you on this one Gartley (not that i think i've ever really disagreed with most of this community, lol). Your content is yours alone, and the simple respect of asking to use it is a common courtesy like tipping the waitress - you do it because its whats expected (unless otherwise stated by management :p) and because its the right thing to do.
 
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I think that the cause of this topic were my post in this topic:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51150&page=5

Yes, I downloaded this shotgun from another forum. I found the author here later, after editing weapons and would like to point out his mistakes and how to fix it.
All this is done with good intentions and a desire to develop Killing Floor.
The language barrier is also very strong argument, if we will be describe each bug in the game, correction will be very slow. If I know how to fix a particular bug, why would not immediately show this author?
We are altruists who want to make the game more interesting and we need to work together, helping each other.
 
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@3xzet

Your post in that thread was part of the reason I ended up writing this, but it's not the only reason. With that particular mod you had to have decompiled it to start editing. Had you sent me a message saying "Hey, I've spotted a couple of problems with the medishotgun, do you mind me taking a look?" I would have been thrilled. And I would have sent you all the raw assets with the same conditions with all my mods, credit where credit is due and tell me what you've changed and why. You don't' need to justify the changes, just give the reason why "I thought it wasn't powerful enough so I increased the damage up to x amount"

I'm more annoyed that you didn't even try to open a dialogue with me before editing my work. I understand that language can be a barrier but that is no excuse for not attempting. You may continue with my blessings, just where possible explain, even in your native tongue if you lack the knowledge of English as I have contacts could translate if need be, what you changed and why. :)
 
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I think that by making the release of his work, the author must understand that, not modders, and the owners of servers immediately disassemble them for parts, adjusting to your own server, well, fix a few bugs to look more interesting. As an example, the same shotgun medic, he was completely finalized within a few hours after the release of a very long time and is almost all GM servers at the same time, the authorship of one does not awarded. For example, I can not imagine that all this time, the shotgun was standing on my server, with the bugs that are present in the original. If the author does not want to have ruled, even if not unfinished puts a weapon that can be quickly corrected. And it's better to change the name of the topic, because your work is not ruled by modders and regular users, in order to put themselves on a dedicated or local serv and play without the stupid bugs.
By the way you talk about the reverse impact, and as an example 3xzet decided to offer you assistance in your work, pointed out the bug and how to edit it, and you took it very strange. This is very bad of you, I think.

PS Sorry for bad English
 
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By the way you talk about the reverse impact, and as an example 3xzet decided to offer you assistance in your work, pointed out the bug and how to edit it, and you took it very strange. This is very bad of you, I think.

PS Sorry for bad English

He didnt, he just did it and pointed out what he had changed. He should have asked to help out and then do the changes
 
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I think that by making the release of his work, the author must understand that, not modders, and the owners of servers immediately disassemble them for parts, adjusting to your own server, well, fix a few bugs to look more interesting. As an example, the same shotgun medic, he was completely finalized within a few hours after the release of a very long time and is almost all GM servers at the same time, the authorship of one does not awarded. For example, I can not imagine that all this time, the shotgun was standing on my server, with the bugs that are present in the original. If the author does not want to have ruled, even if not unfinished puts a weapon that can be quickly corrected. And it's better to change the name of the topic, because your work is not ruled by modders and regular users, in order to put themselves on a dedicated or local serv and play without the stupid bugs.
By the way you talk about the reverse impact, and as an example 3xzet decided to offer you assistance in your work, pointed out the bug and how to edit it, and you took it very strange. This is very bad of you, I think.

PS Sorry for bad English
Sorry but Hemi is right. If you re-read the post he put, he asked "why isn't it like this?" There was no acknowledgement on saying "I might be able to help you, have you thought of this?" or so on.

See this is why I have full credit to all modders. I can admit I have maybe decompiled a few things from other modders and altered the code slightly BUT I do this to balance it for MY server. I have built my server on 12 players with 12 levels and as this all stands, I mainly just edited the weapons to support custom perks. I have given full credit and have given none to myself at all on my custom ServerPerks page of what I have used from others. One thing I wouldn't do is alter anyone's resource files (animations, textures, etc) without permission and why I have done this. I still need to talk to two modders about specific weapons on a bug that has been caused on many servers to see if I can help them out.
 
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I am not looking for greatness. I'm just an intermediary between users and modders, get nothing from the users, and in no way obliged to modders. These are the realities of life in Killind Floor Community

Someone has to make the first step into making this community "scum" free. Your obliged to the modders because your taking credit for an idea you didnt have in the first place. Parasite, low-life...so many names for people that take the credit away from people that put in the hours of making these mods so YOU can have a fun server. Asking for the source is the least you can do. 0 effort, and it opens doors (maybe the modder wants to make more mods for your server...who knows)...while taking the stuff without us knowing only closes them and makes us quit modding KF all together. AKA no one wins, and you have nothing to steal anymore. :D
 
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Someone has to make the first step into making this community "scum" free. Your obliged to the modders because your taking credit for an idea you didnt have in the first place. Parasite, low-life...so many names for people that take the credit away from people that put in the hours of making these mods so YOU can have a fun server. Asking for the source is the least you can do. 0 effort, and it opens doors (maybe the modder wants to make more mods for your server...who knows)...while taking the stuff without us knowing only closes them and makes us quit modding KF all together. AKA no one wins, and you have nothing to steal anymore. :D

I do not play on my server, I play classical killing floor, I'm not taking anything from the users on the server for the game with mods, I just want to make their game more comfortable, asking nothing in return. The definition of "parasite" obviously does not apply in this case, is not it? It feels like you are living in a suitcase, do not see anything, and can not adequately assess the situation.
 
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