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The Full 1016 Balance Change Log

What in particular do you not like here? I mean, yeah, stuff doesn't automatically curl up and die for you when you whip out an xbow, but I'm guessing your not whining over that.

It does play very differently, like it used to. But I unless you say exactly what makes it different in a bad way, it can't really be helped, sorry.

And take in mind, if your playing on pubs, there is a massive surge in new players who appear to have the filter set on 'any difficulty'.

And wise demo dont really use pipebombs anymore. Because two gorefasts can set it off. Even you kill that siren right after she shows, her magical scream can again make your $195 worth pipebomb disappear.

And yeah, if you get the "ears of god" you can tell where the fleshpound will come and lay down one after he spawns, and then pray not more than two gorefasts/groups of crawlers/headless bloats will accidenly step on it.

If you have sight of the pound, why dont you just spam your M32? Why run into the front line and lay down a pipe?

Now I rather give all my money to teamates after I refill both GL and armour than buying pipes for $195 each.

Oh well...
 
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And wise demo dont really use pipebombs anymore. Because two gorefasts can set it off. Even you kill that siren right after she shows, her magical scream can again make your $195 worth pipebomb disappear.

And yeah, if you get the "ears of god" you can tell where the fleshpound will come and lay down one after he spawns, and then pray not more than two gorefasts/groups of crawlers/headless bloats will accidenly step on it.

If you have sight of the pound, why dont you just spam your M32? Why run into the front line and lay down a pipe?

Now I rather give all my money to teamates after I refill both GL and armour than buying pipes for $195 each.

Oh well...

yeah, the pipe price is a tad controversial. I remember that people used to totally spam wave 11, but I think it may need a little lower price for demos.
 
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If the pipebomb price is to stay, you should have a trigger in your inventory. Drop a pipe and whip out a clicker, you can trigger the pipe when you want to, not whenever it decides to go off.

Agreed. It'd be nice if before laying a pipe bomb you could use alt-fire to toggle auto detonation, meaning if you don't want specs to automatically blow it up you just leave it turned off.
 
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Oh yes please...the pipe price right now is ridiculous, as well as the HS starting ammo. Also, I hate how the m32 is in slot 4 now, it just doesn't seem right. If the pipe prices aren't going to change, at least give demos a bigger discount on grenade/m32/m79 ammo so we can actually start the next round with enough ammo to go by...
 
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I am disappoint

I am disappoint

I started playing KF about six months ago, so obviously I'm not as gifted as some here, but I've reached level 5 as a medic and got Bad Santa.

TBH, this patch has sucked most of the fun out of the game.

I understand the Xbow and the pipebombs were rolling over levels, but making them extortionate, less powerful AND less ammo seems overkill. Especially as they've been reduced to expensive jewellery.

The Husk is a monster now. Soaks up damage from all source and fires heatseeking blasts that incinerate everything near.

The Siren shatters anything nearby. I'd rather take on a Scrake than either of those two things as I at least know what I'm trying to do.

The ammo clips simply aren't sufficient to last a wave without pin-point tracking, something I'd expect on HoE or Suicidal, but not on Normal.

Remember: To new players, Normal is seen as default for starting FPS players.

Pyros are at least useful now, but 1000 fire damage from the Mac? That took me 3 shots.

Sharpshooters have been nut-crunched, Demos are begging for half ther weapons, Pyros are now front line until the Husks come and then they cry, Commandos just give up, Berserkers get clogged with the Crawlers and who does that leave as the best?

The Medic.

My level 5 Medic zips around faster than the Fleshpound raging, nipping shots into them, kiting as he heals and unless it's against Paddy, wipes the floor with them all.

And all I have is the Machete, shotgun and bullpup.

Now, I'm not going to try and say what needs to be done, but here's some basic ideas to get things interesting and above all FUN. This is not a military simulator guys, and a level 5/6 team should not be getting wiped out continually on round 3 due to overwhelming.

Demos: Increase discount to pipes, but increase set time.
Pyros: Probably ok.
Sharpshooters: Give them their bonuses when scoped only.
Medics: Not sure on this.
Commandoes: Give a bonus to damage cloaked figures. Worthwhile now.
Berzerkers: Hits reduce Zed speeds.

On the Zed side: Just tone down damage from the Husk and the Siren. They're supposed to be support, not AOE death machines.

Possibly I'm gonna get flamed, but meh, I used to enjoy the game - now it's just frustrating as once my ammo clip is empty - I get swarmed and die.
 
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I started playing KF about six months ago, so obviously I'm not as gifted as some here, but I've reached level 5 as a medic and got Bad Santa.

TBH, this patch has sucked most of the fun out of the game.

I understand the Xbow and the pipebombs were rolling over levels, but making them extortionate, less powerful AND less ammo seems overkill. Especially as they've been reduced to expensive jewellery.

The Husk is a monster now. Soaks up damage from all source and fires heatseeking blasts that incinerate everything near.

The Siren shatters anything nearby. I'd rather take on a Scrake than either of those two things as I at least know what I'm trying to do.

The ammo clips simply aren't sufficient to last a wave without pin-point tracking, something I'd expect on HoE or Suicidal, but not on Normal.

Remember: To new players, Normal is seen as default for starting FPS players.

Pyros are at least useful now, but 1000 fire damage from the Mac? That took me 3 shots.

Sharpshooters have been nut-crunched, Demos are begging for half ther weapons, Pyros are now front line until the Husks come and then they cry, Commandos just give up, Berserkers get clogged with the Crawlers and who does that leave as the best?

The Medic.

My level 5 Medic zips around faster than the Fleshpound raging, nipping shots into them, kiting as he heals and unless it's against Paddy, wipes the floor with them all.

And all I have is the Machete, shotgun and bullpup.

Now, I'm not going to try and say what needs to be done, but here's some basic ideas to get things interesting and above all FUN. This is not a military simulator guys, and a level 5/6 team should not be getting wiped out continually on round 3 due to overwhelming.

Demos: Increase discount to pipes, but increase set time.
Pyros: Probably ok.
Sharpshooters: Give them their bonuses when scoped only.
Medics: Not sure on this.
Commandoes: Give a bonus to damage cloaked figures. Worthwhile now.
Berzerkers: Hits reduce Zed speeds.

On the Zed side: Just tone down damage from the Husk and the Siren. They're supposed to be support, not AOE death machines.

Possibly I'm gonna get flamed, but meh, I used to enjoy the game - now it's just frustrating as once my ammo clip is empty - I get swarmed and die.

I agree with everything, while we used to play Killing Floor all the time when new content came out, now we just poked at it, found it a lot less fun and a lot more frustrating, and plain buggered off... I have to drag out a couple of mates just to get them to play... And they're NOT the sharpshooters, we generally had one with a crossbow, now noone wants to do it and I have to :(
It's bull****.
 
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The game was fine without all these so called fixes. Put it back two patches ago and make it fun again. I agree with gam3bill on this one. Yeah they say they increased the scar by 15%, but he IS right about beserking anything from behind always took more than one shot to kill as opposed to a frontal assault. If players think the game is too easy the way it was, play suicidal or the new HOE. What exactly is wrong with laying a ton of pipes down anyways? It comes in handy when you have a ton of noobs on the server using out of class weps and trying to take a FP down with a pistol.....I prefer the sharpshooter class, now why bother, they have effectivly been nerfed......Yeah when you have 6 players that know how to play and act a sa team, the game is easy, I can see why they would want to decrease money and make perks less powerful, but isn't that what suicidal and HOE are for?
 
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The game was fine without all these so called fixes. Put it back two patches ago and make it fun again. I agree with gam3bill on this one. Yeah they say they increased the scar by 15%, but he IS right about beserking anything from behind always took more than one shot to kill as opposed to a frontal assault. If players think the game is too easy the way it was, play suicidal or the new HOE. What exactly is wrong with laying a ton of pipes down anyways? It comes in handy when you have a ton of noobs on the server using out of class weps and trying to take a FP down with a pistol.....I prefer the sharpshooter class, now why bother, they have effectivly been nerfed......Yeah when you have 6 players that know how to play and act a sa team, the game is easy, I can see why they would want to decrease money and make perks less powerful, but isn't that what suicidal and HOE are for?


If you try to use pistol for the bigs, you are doing it wrong. Why should you win?

But pipe bomb is still too expensive in good player's hands. Sharing with teamates is much better than wasting $195 (or $750 for non-demo) for 4 crawlers or 2 gorefasts.
 
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Sharpshooters have been nut-crunched, Demos are begging for half ther weapons, Pyros are now front line until the Husks come and then they cry, Commandos just give up, Berserkers get clogged with the Crawlers and who does that leave as the best?

The Medic.

My level 5 Medic zips around faster than the Fleshpound raging, nipping shots into them, kiting as he heals and unless it's against Paddy, wipes the floor with them all.

Er what. I'd like to know what game you're playing.

Buncha whiners.
 
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I always think it's hilarious when whingers tell veterans to "play on a higher difficulty" instead of fixing things. We did, and it was easy anyway. That's the whole point. Don't try to project your own incompetence on to the rest of us.

kinda like the "whinging" you guys did because it was "too easy"? you can't have it both ways. you saying it was broken and needed to be fixed is no different than people now saying it needs to be fixed back.
 
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kinda like the "whinging" you guys did because it was "too easy"? you can't have it both ways. you saying it was broken and needed to be fixed is no different than people now saying it needs to be fixed back.
Except that they're not the same at all, for one simple reason: Whereas the game previously catered to casuals but alienated veterans, it now caters to both, just at different difficulty levels. Less skilled players mightn't cut it on HoE any more but Normal and Hard are still perfectly accessible. If Normal and Hard were too difficult, then they might have something worth complaining about, but the new inconsistencies between Hard and Suicidal were introduced specifically to make sure that wouldn't happen. So, in short, whereas veterans once had no higher difficulty on which to play, the only thing stopping today's whingers from migrating to a lower difficulty level is their own pride.
 
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I just wonder was the whole balance patch judged by "veterans only"? I mean how many so called "normal/average/casual" players really participate in these betas and give feedback..? (how many people DID participate btw?)

Just a thought, don't get me wrong. I generally like the changes. The biggest complain *personally* might be that demo is almost unaffordable occupation now. I initially thought that the M79 ammo price was to be lowered to what the M32 ammo used to cost. But to have it the other way around... ouch! Also *personally* i would like the higher level (at least lv 6) demo pipe discount to be a little more, those darn things cost strawberries and honey now :D

Or the previously mentioned selectable remote trigger for pipes would kind of get around that "$195 pipe for 1 bloat/2 gorefasts/etc" and be really cool otherwise too :p

Still, the first things i would like to see changed/fixed are the bug/feature fixes for:
1. "missing the zeds on my face (especially shotguns, also noticed it with hand cannon)" (is this some bigger engine related problem or is it something that is possible/relatively easy/manageable to fix??)
2. "zeds gliding on the floor towards the team ghost-style when stunned/head down"
[3. "zed hitboxes (especially head hitboxes) seem kind of strange sometimes (for example when playing sharp (meaning even with the bonuses), if the first head hit to even a clot does not rip his head off, it sometimes takes half a clip or more to kill him even with lv6 sharp (!!). Usually it helps to stop for 1-2 seconds or to kill another zed and then punish him again. Maybe it's just me beeing a total n00b... :p]
4. "network code related 'features' (failures to connect to server etc.)" (this was mentioned in some thread as "not going to happen" since it is unreal engine problem(?))
5. Improved server browser: a column for current/last waves on a server (for example 3/10, so the same format as in-game)
 
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@ RoAE

Aren't Firebugs immune to the Husk blasts? Why would they be crying? Just whip out your Mac10 and blast the f*cker in the face.

Why are Commandos giving up? Not enough Crawlers/ Gorefasts/ Stalkers/ Bloats to shoot at?

Berserker is a class that absolutely requires good situational awareness. If he sees a mob of crawlers hopping toward him, he should be competent enough to move back and whip out the 9mm/ lar or toss a nade. That's assuming there's no Firebug/ Demo/ Commando to help him.

As for the Sharpshooters, it's the m14 spamming, body-shotting ones that got "nut-crunched." The ones that take their time and aim for headshots seem to be doing ok.
 
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Came back after a long break and tried it. Keep in mind that I only play on Hard and up! However, here are my impressions:

Demoman:
-Pipes price increase cripples their usefulness. On harder difficulties, you'll be spending so much on Nades and Body armor that there's just no way you can afford a pipebomb that's likely to be tripped by a rushing pair of Gorefasts or Crawlers instead of that Fleshpound you just laid it for (Usually killing you). If you're not a demoman, they're so ridiculously expensive that you can just forget 'em. ADDING MANUAL DETONATION FOR PIPES WOULD BE GREAT AND WOULD JUSTIFY THE PRICE HIKE, IMO. Alt-fire could be for the usual proximity detonation. Just a suggestion...

-Nade launcher ammo price increase makes the pipe price hike worse. Like I said, most, if not all money goes to nades now. Can hardly ever afford pipes. Hand Grenade buff was nice, though.



Sharpshooter:
-Married to the Crossbow/Handcannon combo now. The M14 isn't even an option on higher difficulties anymore. The M-14 needs a better scope or bigger headshot damage (Preferably both), because right now, it's just a trash-cleaner and the Handcannon can easily do it's job for cheaper and with less weight.

-Crossbow price increase was needed, but now that the class is pretty much stuck with it and it has less ammo, the Sharpshooter struggles to be useful until Scrake/FP waves.


Support:
-Still plagued with ammo issues. You'll be lucky if your shotgun rounds last an entire wave once Scrakes/FPs start appearing, even with generous use of the 9mm on Trash. Shotgun still can't down a Gorefast in 1 shot without a solid Headshot, meaning that you'll often burn 2 shells on 1 enemy. Shotgun damage might need to be upped a bit or ammo capacity upped.

-Spawning with 25% Hunting Shotgun Ammo (And no backup shotgun!) makes it a TERRIBLE starting choice for Suicidal/HoE.



Firebug:
-Still joined at the hip with the Flamethrower. Makes the class relatively boring to play. And still 110% useless against anything bigger than a Gorefast. Flamethrower's damage becomes bad in Suicidal and almost insignificant in HoE. You'll run out of ammo halfway through a wave almost constantly, even firing in short bursts and using melee/9mm. All-in-all, NOT a viable class for harder difficulties at all!

-Mac10 is great. Could use a bit more ammo, as it eats it insanely quick, but it's a good "Husk-slayer" (1 Clip to the face up until HoE) and picks off enemies that your Flamethrower doesn't quite kill. The Fire effect on it, however, is almost useless because the damage is so low. Not feasable to be used as a main weapon at all, thus the Firebug is still stuck with the clunky, low-damage Flamethrower.



Commando:
-Almost perfect, really. Bullpup/AK good for trash cleaning, SCAR good for sniping and can be switched to Full Auto to rock 'n roll on bigger stuff easily. Outlasts Supports and Firebugs ammo-wise and is far better at sweeping than the Firebug. A solid, well-balanced class and probably my current favorite now.
-Only real complaint is that, to me, the AK-47 is too weak to be considered a true "Upgrade" to the bullpup when you factor in it's extra recoil, lack of reflex sights, and inaccuracy after the first shot. It needs something. Dunno what, but something. Honestly, at Level 6, I'd rather spawn with a Bullpup and Body Armor than an AK.
-Suggestion: Like I keep saying, increase the range of the health-viewing/Stalker seeing. This would help TONS in outdoorsy maps.


Berserker:
-Ah, my former favorite class... It's not unplayable anymore. It's just...a bad class. Chainsaw is a viable option and the Katana's auto-fire really helps stop click-spam finger fatigue. Damage reduction was ABSOLUTELY needed and allows you to last more than a few seconds on Suicidal/HoE.
-Still near useless on harder difficulties. Melee weapons are still largely single-target and don't do enough damage to drop things before you take at least a few hits. And on HoE, a few hits can be it for you, even as a Berserker. There's little the Berserker can do at close range that a Support can't do better with the addition of Shotgun AoE. The Katana having a slower rate of fire helps the enemies sneak hits in on you easier.
-Machete/Axe are still useless so it's still about Chainsaw and Katana. Katana is for mobility/hit and run, while the Chainsaw is about holding ground and taking down hordes, but honestly, neither one does spectacular damage for the risk you take at close range.
-Both Chainsaw and Katana alt-fires need their attack speed reduced but a BIG damage boost. They should be attacks you need to aim but when they hit, they HURT. As it is, you're almost better off spamming normal swings instead of alt-firing. Alt-fire should be what you use to take on bigger targets. As it is, Berserker is good vs Scrakes, but useless vs FPs.
-Suffers from the medic's problem of "No boosted ranged weapons", making it VERY hard to deal reliable damage on harder levels without taking a beating or dying, especially against Sirens/Husks, but also against Crawlers. All-in-all, an extremely challenging class to play, but not hugely rewarding anymore. Not really a class I like to use these days.



Field Medic:
-Plays largely the same, but makes a bit more money from heals.
-The Mac-10 adds another nice Point Defense weapon for the medic. A combo of the Bullpup, Mac-10, and MP7 make you an up close bullet-spraying machine. Or a Crossbow adds some sniping capability.
-Still tanks like a beast, giving the Zerker a run for his money...until the armor runs out.
-HUGE damage problems on higher levels. Your guns might as well be BB guns against HoE enemies. Pretty much limits you to just healing and defending yourself occasionally. Still a pretty solid class.



TL;DR summary:
Lots of stuff fixed, but Berserker still sucks and isn't fun to play, Firebug is still stuck with the boring and ineffective (On harder levels) Flamethrower, and Support still doesn't have enough ammo. Much more fun but still has quite a few flaws.
 
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I disagree with some of the points:

Sharpshooter:
-Married to the Crossbow/Handcannon combo now. The M14 isn't even an option on higher difficulties anymore. The M-14 needs a better scope or bigger headshot damage (Preferably both), because right now, it's just a trash-cleaner and the Handcannon can easily do it's job for cheaper and with less weight.

Umm... a 6-man HoE pound ONLY takes 10 M14 head shots to kill. And most of the time I fire 12-15 shots because I WILL MISS. But EVEN I miss up to five shots, I STILL kill it before he hits me. How much time you need to fire 15 shots? And How much time you need to fire 4 bolts of xbow?

I really think people should start to partise with the M14 more.

-Crossbow price increase was needed, but now that the class is pretty much stuck with it and it has less ammo, the Sharpshooter struggles to be useful until Scrake/FP waves.

Xbow price is DOUBLED. And you now need 2x more ammo on scrakes and 4x more ammo on pounds. And total ammo is decreased to 36. Later wave is likely to spawn 10+ scrakes. Not counting pounds in already eating nearly 60% of your ammo IF YOU NEVER MISS. And husks and sirens is also your target. You simply cannot help enough to kill pound but just raging him. Let your demo buddy to kill it if you are holding xbow. Focus on scrakes and sirens and husks. It will USE UP your ammo in later waves.

So, $800 just dont worth it. Those three shotguns have 10x better AoE while still kills sirens and husks fast enough. With a much lower selling price and ammo price. (AA12 can be really good in nearly EVERY suituation so it worth its price)

-Spawning with 25% Hunting Shotgun Ammo (And no backup shotgun!) makes it a TERRIBLE starting choice for Suicidal/HoE.

Joining in the middle of the game is ALWAYS an issue. It dont seems that will be fixed.

Berserker:
-Still near useless on harder difficulties. Melee weapons are still largely single-target and don't do enough damage to drop things before you take at least a few hits. And on HoE, a few hits can be it for you, even as a Berserker. There's little the Berserker can do at close range that a Support can't do better with the addition of Shotgun AoE. The Katana having a slower rate of fire helps the enemies sneak hits in on you easier.

-Stun scrakes (while scrakes becoming the real threat of many perks cos it rages @ 75% health and katana no longer save you from scrakes).
-best tank next ot medic (still able to take one hit from a raging fleshpound with full health without armour)
-save ammo for teamates cos they can leave every clots to you. And may be gorefasts and stalkers.


-Machete/Axe are still useless so it's still about Chainsaw and Katana. Katana is for mobility/hit and run, while the Chainsaw is about holding ground and taking down hordes, but honestly, neither one does spectacular damage for the risk you take at close range.

In fact now the machete is for other perks to fill the 1kg unused weight.
And axe one-shot husks and sirens on 6-man HoE (and suicidal) while katane cannot. Axe stun scrakes from behind or head shot from the front and katana now can only cancel scrakes attack once (not sure if katana is able to stun scrakes from a head shot from behind).

-Both Chainsaw and Katana alt-fires need their attack speed reduced but a BIG damage boost. They should be attacks you need to aim but when they hit, they HURT. As it is, you're almost better off spamming normal swings instead of alt-firing. Alt-fire should be what you use to take on bigger targets. As it is, Berserker is good vs Scrakes, but useless vs FPs.

On wide open maps berserkers can kite and axe the fp to death without taking any damage from him. In CQB map it is still possible if you have a really good team. And again, you can tank when needed.
 
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