Reasonable weapon/class upgrades

[RobfromEssex]

I'm no WWII gun expert but I'm sure TWI will do the gun tweaks as if it was in the real battlefield, So for example whatever changes people made to their gun like, maybe a cleaner new weapon or nice engraved butt, I dunno just something that you actually might see a lot in the battlefield.

 

[Flogger23m]

They usually carried one drum mag in the gun itself, and then several sticks, it wasn't one or the other.

I'm sure there where plenty of times where they only carried one type.

Especially early in the war, because the sticks where not invented yet.

But yes, they usually carried one drum and a few sticks once they became wide spread.



It would also be nice if there was a third option for having one drum and a few sticks as well.


Either way, I think it would have been more common to see a soldier with sticks only than a soldier carrying an MKB-42. So in terms of the game, I don't think it would matter much.

 

[Nicholas]

I'm sure there where plenty of times where they only carried one type.

Especially early in the war, because the sticks where not invented yet.

But yes, they usually carried one drum and a few sticks once they became wide spread.



It would also be nice if there was a third option for having one drum and a few sticks as well.


Either way, I think it would have been more common to see a soldier with sticks only than a soldier carrying an MKB-42. So in terms of the game, I don't think it would matter much.

Okay then you should have the option of....

3 drums (213)

7 sticks (210)

1 drum and 5 sticks (221)

Some might have more ammo than the others, but it really makes very little difference.

 

[Flogger23m]

Okay then you should have the option of....

3 drums (213)

7 sticks (210)

1 drum and 5 sticks (221)

Some might have more ammo than the others, but it really makes very little difference.

You can make it 8 sticks.

And aside from ammo amounts, as I said, you can make the sticks reload quicker. The disadvantage would be more frequent reloads.

Enough of a different for me.


And even if it does not make any difference, I would much prefer unlocks like this over any "perks" and whatnot that disadvantage new players. Examples: BF 2142 and CoD series.

 

[Nicholas]

You can make it 8 sticks.

And aside from ammo amounts, as I said, you can make the sticks reload quicker. The disadvantage would be more frequent reloads.

Enough of a different for me.


And even if it does not make any difference, I would much prefer unlocks like this over any "perks" and whatnot that disadvantage new players. Examples: BF 2142 and CoD series.

Not an unlock just an option, do you want more ammo, faster reloads, or a mix?

 

[Flogger23m]

Not an unlock just an option, do you want more ammo, faster reloads, or a mix?

I would prefer it to be an option without any unlocking or upgrading, but it seems like HoS is moving towards some unlocks and upgrades for more experienced players.

I am just saying that I would suggest subtle unlocks. The whole drum/stick thing balances out pretty well and doesn't change much, so players who are not "heroes" will not be at a disadvantage.

At the same time, the heroes get more options.

Again, going back to BF2142, the weapon unlocks and upgrades actually made a big difference. I would prefer not to have such a system in HoS.



Overall I would prefer no upgrades like in RO1, but that will not be an option.

 

[Nicholas]

I would prefer it to be an option without any unlocking or upgrading, but it seems like HoS is moving towards some unlocks and upgrades for more experienced players.

I am just saying that I would suggest subtle unlocks. The whole drum/stick thing balances out pretty well and doesn't change much, so players who are not "heroes" will not be at a disadvantage.

At the same time, the heroes get more options.

Again, going back to BF2142, the weapon unlocks and upgrades actually made a big difference. I would prefer not to have such a system in HoS.



Overall I would prefer no upgrades like in RO1, but that will not be an option.

The only thing people should "unlock" is first pick of classes.

 

[Extension7]

Maybe you unlock as you progress through out the campaign, and when it's over, you lose what you got? I mean, if you get a better sniper scope or a stick mag, everyone would have them by the 3rd month of release. How about, you earn them through out this multiple hour long campaign, use them to your advantage, and when you win, you go home and say cheers and start all over again.

It sounds kinda like "prestige" from CoD except it doesn't make you look like a addict asshole who wants to look cool.

 

[Flogger23m]

The only thing people should "unlock" is first pick of classes.

I think it should be first come, first serve.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I hope it will be a fair and good system. Having a computer that joins super fast should not put you in a better positions than people with decent computers. Classes that it is important is played right will need experience to be played. There should be a delay before the round starts so people with decent computers can be able to get "cool picks". Instead of having "once a class is picked, you get it" there could be a: "I want this class, if I dont get that I want this one, and then this one, and then this one". Then after X seconds have passed, the slot of SL is randomized out to all those that have applied for it. Then it is the next important class etc.

I hope you understand what I mean, if not I'd be happy to elaborate.

 

[Nicholas]

Maybe you unlock as you progress through out the campaign, and when it's over, you lose what you got? I mean, if you get a better sniper scope or a stick mag, everyone would have them by the 3rd month of release. How about, you earn them through out this multiple hour long campaign, use them to your advantage, and when you win, you go home and say cheers and start all over again.

It sounds kinda like "prestige" from CoD except it doesn't make you look like a addict asshole who wants to look cool.

You know everything in the game has advantages and disadvantages, you shouldn't have to "unlock" stick mags, or a more high powered scope, because they have their own disadvantages, rare guns should be rare, I say the MKB42/AVT/PPS should go to one guy on a team on certain maps, or if someone does really good in campaign.

 

[DraKon2k]

Seriously why are you still discussing whether it should be there or not? The game will feature such unlocks as a matter of fact and this thread is for suggestions as to what those unlocks could be.

 

[Flogger23m]

Seriously why are you still discussing whether it should be there or not? The game will feature such unlocks as a matter of fact and this thread is for suggestions as to what those unlocks could be.

Exactly.

I wish they would not be in, but they will be.

As long as the unlocks do not give the "heroes" more advantages, that is what matters.

But entire guns should be available from the start IMO. I think the MKB and the AVT should not be unlockable guns, but just rare guns (only a few on a map).

 

[Nicholas]

Exactly.

I wish they would not be in, but they will be.

As long as the unlocks do not give the "heroes" more advantages, that is what matters.

But entire guns should be available from the start IMO. I think the MKB and the AVT should not be unlockable guns, but just rare guns (only a few on a map).

Exactly what I meant.

Now my thing with WW2 in general, as long as the weapons are done right, they are alot more diverse than modern times, meaning most guns are different, say for example you have bolt action rifles, sub machine guns, light machine guns, sniper rifles, ETC eevrything is clearly defined, nowadays every single gun is an assault rifle and most have scopes.

 

[VariousNames]

Exactly what I meant.

Now my thing with WW2 in general, as long as the weapons are done right, they are alot more diverse than modern times, meaning most guns are different, say for example you have bolt action rifles, sub machine guns, light machine guns, sniper rifles, ETC eevrything is clearly defined, nowadays every single gun is an assault rifle and most have scopes.

Negative.

In the modern day you're average grunt is going to be equipped with an assault rifle, whether that means something with 5.56 NATO or an AK-47. Even LMGs now generally pack the same cartridges, probably for logistical reasons as well as fire superiority doctrine. M249, RPK, etc.

But then you've got all this crapola that resulted when NATO and Warsaw militaries realized, wuh-oh, what do we do when we need to engage a target at medium to long range.

Now we've got a whole collapsible chest of calibers like .50 BMG used in HMGs and sniper rifle/anti materiel rifles;

and the 7.62x51's seen a resurgence in NATO with DMRs like the M14 EBR for purposes of intermediate accurate fire;

and finally the 7.62x51's Soviet equivalent, the slightly extended 7.62x54 SVD, which is used as a marksman rifle and is integrated into the Russian military on pretty low levels.

If Wikipoopia is to be believed:

The Dragunov is an original rifle design for several reasons. First, it was not meant for highly trained and specialized sniper teams, but rather for designated marksmen, spread in every basic infantry unit. In every platoon of Warsaw Pact troops, there was a Dragunov rifle marksman.

Take that or research it more, I don't expect you to believe it.

In a nutshell, even modern militaries carry different weapons. For instance 7.62 LMGs are brought it in for heavy fire support in the US military, while 5.56 M249s are used most often in the LMG role. Carbines and full sized AR-15 type rifles are used in the US military to further differentiate. Warsaw has AK-74 and the 74U carbine variant which is very nearly suited for the submachine gun role. For longer range engagements there's a wide assortment of specialized calibers from 7.62 NATO to .50 BMG. The only thing that really died was the submachine gun, and that's just because people realized submachine guns suck.

No modern nation sends infantry out equipped entirely with assault rifles, looking stupid until something bad happens. They give a few specialized soldiers cool stuff like LMGs, bigger LMGs, HMGs, DMRs, sniper rifles and anti-materiel rifles.

This variety won't be realistically reduced without the introduction of a low power cartridge with exceptionally good ballistic properties like the 6.5 or some unknown equivalent. The 5.56 sucks for cover penetration, stopping power when it counts, and long range ballistics. The 7.62x39 AK-47 round is clunky and has miserable ballistics.

 

[Bobdog]

The only thing people should "unlock" is first pick of classes.

I think it should be first come, first serve.

Some classes will require you to have a certain ranking to play them; that way you don't have someone who has never played before in an important role like commander. There is also a system in place where some classes will be locked until a certain number of players join the server, to eliminate the fast computer advantage.

You know everything in the game has advantages and disadvantages, you shouldn't have to "unlock" stick mags, or a more high powered scope, because they have their own disadvantages, rare guns should be rare, I say the MKB42/AVT/PPS should go to one guy on a team on certain maps, or if someone does really good in campaign.

Exactly.

I wish they would not be in, but they will be.

As long as the unlocks do not give the "heroes" more advantages, that is what matters.

But entire guns should be available from the start IMO. I think the MKB and the AVT should not be unlockable guns, but just rare guns (only a few on a map).

Ramm has said that while the MKB etc will be unlockable, they're only going to allow 1 hero per team, so even if everyone has it unlocked, there will only be 1 guy running around with it on the server.

 

[Nicholas]

Negative.

In the modern day you're average grunt is going to be equipped with an assault rifle, whether that means something with 5.56 NATO or an AK-47. Even LMGs now generally pack the same cartridges, probably for logistical reasons as well as fire superiority doctrine. M249, RPK, etc.

But then you've got all this crapola that resulted when NATO and Warsaw militaries realized, wuh-oh, what do we do when we need to engage a target at medium to long range.

Now we've got a whole collapsible chest of calibers like .50 BMG used in HMGs and sniper rifle/anti materiel rifles;

and the 7.62x51's seen a resurgence in NATO with DMRs like the M14 EBR for purposes of intermediate accurate fire;

and finally the 7.62x51's Soviet equivalent, the slightly extended 7.62x54 SVD, which is used as a marksman rifle and is integrated into the Russian military on pretty low levels.

If Wikipoopia is to be believed:

The Dragunov is an original rifle design for several reasons. First, it was not meant for highly trained and specialized sniper teams, but rather for designated marksmen, spread in every basic infantry unit. In every platoon of Warsaw Pact troops, there was a Dragunov rifle marksman.

Take that or research it more, I don't expect you to believe it.

In a nutshell, even modern militaries carry different weapons. For instance 7.62 LMGs are brought it in for heavy fire support in the US military, while 5.56 M249s are used most often in the LMG role. Carbines and full sized AR-15 type rifles are used in the US military to further differentiate. Warsaw has AK-74 and the 74U carbine variant which is very nearly suited for the submachine gun role. For longer range engagements there's a wide assortment of specialized calibers from 7.62 NATO to .50 BMG.

No modern nation sends infantry out equipped entirely with assault rifles, looking stupid until something bad happens. They give a few specialized soldiers cool stuff like LMGs, bigger LMGs, HMGs, DMRs, sniper rifles and anti-materiel rifles.

This variety won't be realistically reduced without the introduction of a low power cartridge with exceptionally good ballistic properties like the 6.5 or some unknown equivalent. The 5.56 sucks for cover penetration, stopping power when it counts, and long range ballistics. The 7.62x39 AK-47 round is clunky and has miserable ballistics.

I may have overexagerated a bit, I understand that nowadays they still use bolt action rifles, battle rifles, SMG's, pistols and LMG's ETC....

But like you said most soldiers have assault rifles, which are somewhere in between full powered rifles and SMG's.

Lets take a look at all the weapons used by the US military....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ModernUSInfWeaponsNav

So we have....

5 assault rifles

16 designated marksman and sniper rifles

3 light machine guns

3 shotguns

1 sub machine gun

5 pistols

So it looks like assault rifles are completely outmatched?

Well....

2 of those assault rifles are standard issue, the other 3 are for special forces but pretty much do the same thing

The majority of those DM and sniper rifles are rare and only used by select units

Of the 3 LMG's, 2 are full powered LMG's, with one mostly phased out, the SAW is issued to every fireteam but it fires the 5.56 and many are shortened in length

Shotguns are only used for gaurd duty and CQB

SMG's are only used by military police

Pistols are completely outmatched in firepower, in WW2 a guy with a pistol actually could have a better chance against a guy with a bolt in cqb, now not so much....

So yes I understand theres still a diverse amount of weapons in modern times, just most of them are specialized or are for backup, assault rifles and the like make up the bulk force, and many of those have optics. And lets not mention that the majority of small arms used by insurgents are AK's.

 

[VariousNames]

I'll grant you without any further combat that assault rifles are by far the most common standard issue firearm in modern militaries and insurgent forces, barring those few militaries using battle rifles like the FAL and the surplus crap still in circulation with insurgents.

But other stuff's out there, obv. All I meant to say.

 

[Extension7]

So like, yeah. Unlocks. I'm fine by it.

 

[Bishop Miles]

I hope it will be a fair and good system. Having a computer that joins super fast should not put you in a better positions than people with decent computers. Classes that it is important is played right will need experience to be played. There should be a delay before the round starts so people with decent computers can be able to get "cool picks". Instead of having "once a class is picked, you get it" there could be a: "I want this class, if I dont get that I want this one, and then this one, and then this one". Then after X seconds have passed, the slot of SL is randomized out to all those that have applied for it. Then it is the next important class etc.

I hope you understand what I mean, if not I'd be happy to elaborate.

+1 I like this.

On the upgrade side of the thread as long as they are historically accurate (look and availability) and don't give the player using them a godly advantage over other players I'm fine with it.