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Official Dwarfs?! Axe Balance Thread

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Official Dwarfs?! Axe Balance Thread

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#41
HoopleDoople said:
Just to be clear, the Dwarfish Axe is great for kiting FPs. It takes a bit longer as you need to use the primary fire for knockback, but the knockback is well worth it. It's normally quite difficult to kite FPs without taking periodic hits. With knockback pushing the FP away before he swings it is substantially easier to dodge the hits.

As far as damage if the wikis are to be believed it scales from 235 to 470 for the primary attack and from 325 to 650 for the alt attack. This is very slightly higher than the Claymore.
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Based on my experience, the real danger while kiting FP is not from FP's swing, but from Husk/Siren, zeds spawn ahead of you, and accidentally bump into corner. Knock back from Dwarf Axe does not solve any of these problems. In fact, methinks, due to higher frequency required to hit FP in order to knock it back, in addition to lower reach, it become even more difficult to avoid such problems.

Oh, and about that "taking periodic hits" from FP, I seldom find that a problem while using Claymore because of its ridiculous (if you may) reach, and that's exactly why I consider Claymore being the real OP weapon and much better than Dwarf Axe in almost all occasion.
 
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#42
Mr.Xen said:
Based on my experience, the real danger while kiting FP is not from FP's swing, but from Husk/Siren, zeds spawn ahead of you, and accidentally bump into corner. Knock back from Dwarf Axe does not solve any of these problems. In fact, methinks, due to higher frequency required to hit FP in order to knock it back, in addition to lower reach, it become even more difficult to avoid such problems.

Oh, and about that "taking periodic hits" from FP, I seldom find that a problem while using Claymore because of its ridiculous (if you may) reach, and that's exactly why I consider Claymore being the real OP weapon and much better than Dwarf Axe in almost all occasion.
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I agree with this. Ultimately, in my opinion, the axe is fairly useless on Sui/HoE anyhow because of the increased speed. You will take hits no matter what, because of the extremely short range of the axe. This is where the claymore truly shines.


Edit: The only thing I could see the axe being used for in Sui/HoE is to throw an attacking scrake or FP off of a trapped team mate.
 
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#43
Everytime zerk gets something off the charts we get one of those threads. At first it was Buzzsaw now it's Dorf Axe. It's just a coop game, if you want to see something overpowered look at M14 and M32, they take a FP in mere 3-4 seconds.

I say knockback is fine, the damage is what makes it overpowered. I say reduce the damage but increase the head multiplier, and remove the knockback from powerswing. Else I couldn't really care less...
 
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#44
Finally updated my sig for more accuracy. :)

Seriously though, I'm going to sound like a tape recorder here but :

  • The knockback is pointless on scrakes as the alt stuns on head hits.
  • The knockback drags out a Fleshpound kite longer than necessary
  • Should you (or somebody else) rage the FP, the knockback is still quite difficult to pull off due to the short range (I can't imagine it being any easier on a real map and on a server). The FP continues to rage until it hits somebody.
  • If there was no knockback, the weapon would just effectively be a remodeled claymore with a worse range.
So yeah...Glad the majority vote is that its not op.
 
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#45
What, we're fine with regular axe kiting, but having something similar on another weapon is broken? No, it doesn't matter that axe kiting is hard to do, it's broken like the Dwarf axe is.

Have the knockback on a cool down so it can't be chained or something. Make it an emergency save instead of a way to chain it indefinitely. Also, fix axe kiting, already.
 
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#46
Zerkers on Suicidal with Axe got pwned by a few Gingerfasts and a FP.

Multiple times. (I don't own Dwarfs?!, I witnessed the events. Several times)

It is not OP, stop whining and find something more productive and useful to spend that rage on.

Hell, they upped the price on the Machete and Axe, how the hell am I supposed to gut something with a butter knife on Suicidal and HoE now? :IS2:
 
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#47
The only reason I vote unbalanced is because the berserk himself is now more unbalanced than he has ever been. Slightly increasing price doesn't change that the best class just got a MONSTER buff in the form of multi-hits for all his weapons. The game is best with a mix of classes working together in synergy. Not 4 berserkers and 2 medics kiting all day.

Suggestions: Reduce berserker speed and damage resistance.
or give the berserker the same resistance as the medic, binding it to his armor.
Just two thoughts.
 
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#53
SkullFinder123 said:
Killing Fleshpounds on HoE without a scratch is OP
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Because that totally wasn't possible before.

Its decently difficult to pull off on an actual server and a real map. Even on my own server I missed quite a few times and got hit. It takes mastery of skill and there is no problem with that. Its ok to not like a kiting set of zerks, but it is a valid strategy as is holing up.
 
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#54
Arblarg said:
Because that totally wasn't possible before.
Click to expand...

Kiting a Fleshie with any other weapon takes effort. Kiting a Fleshie with a weapon that allows you to push him away makes kiting much easier and takes much less effort. The zerk is already OP, and adding a weapon that can push back Fleshies even on HoE just makes the zerk even more overpowered
 
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#55
you know, this poll is wrong.

It should have been "Dwarfs Axe Balanced on Hell on Earth?"

Hard and below are meant to have fun and shoot stuff in the face. Anything goes. Balance isn't that important, unless something is really REALLY broken.

Suc and hoE are meant for challenge and this is where balance becomes really important.

Is it imba for Hard and below? nah!
Is it imba for Suc and HoE? damn right it is!
 
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#56
SkullFinder123 said:
Kiting a Fleshie with any other weapon takes effort. Kiting a Fleshie with a weapon that allows you to push him away makes kiting much easier and takes much less effort. The zerk is already OP, and adding a weapon that can push back Fleshies even on HoE just makes the zerk even more overpowered
Click to expand...
Sure its easier on test map, you can choose for there to be no other threats or obstacles. Pulling it off in game is far more time consuming than any other weapon. Time is health in killing floor and by you knocking it back and using the primary fire, you're extending the time that other specimen have to build up and for a possible second fleshpound to rage. I would still take a claymore or fire axe over the dwarf axe any day. The weapon is actually horrendous on higher difficulties. Its for fun, not much else.

You make logic clots head hurt.
logiclot.gif
 
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#57
Arblarg said:
Sure its easier on test map, you can choose for there to be no other threats or obstacles. Pulling it off in game is far more time consuming than any other weapon. Time is health in killing floor and by you knocking it back and using the primary fire, you're extending the time that other specimen have to build up and for a possible second fleshpound to rage. I would still take a claymore or fire axe over the dwarf axe any day. The weapon is actually horrendous on higher difficulties. Its for fun, not much else.
Click to expand...

Obviously its easier in testmap, it was just a demonstration. In actual play, the zerk can kite the fleshie while the rest of the team covers him. In other pub servers, the team just kills the fp without the need of the zerk.

When a zerk is going solo with a fp on his tail, all the zerk has to do is just slice out everyone else then focus on the fleshie when there's no one nearby to interfere

If a second fleshie appears, obviously the zerk is ****ed without backup

The gif did make me lol
 
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#58
SkullFinder123 said:
Obviously its easier in testmap, it was just a demonstration. In actual play, the zerk can kite the fleshie while the rest of the team covers him. In other pub servers, the team just kills the fp without the need of the zerk.
Click to expand...

So compared to these incredibly more efficient means of removing the Fleshpound (Demo's hand nades + m32, Support's hand nade + hunting shotty, Crossbow Sharp, M99 Sharp) how is the more time-consuming Dwarf's Axe Zerker kite overpowered? This isn't really directed at you, Skullfinder, you just kind of got me thinking.

Covering the Zerker while he kites the Fleshpound seems like it just takes too much time, but also endangers the team more. now you have 2 fewer people (Zerker, plus whoever is covering him) focusing on the Fleshpound and not the rest of the wave that's incoming to the team's position. I'm assuming the zerker is playing at the rest of the team's location and it's not a 4-zerk 2-med marathon. xD If the Zerker actually is playing with the rest of the team, why is this a bad thing? I've seen a lot of posts wishing the zerker would be reigned in and have to "be a team player." The Scythe made it easier to be that tanking Zerker. Although certainly goofier, I'd say the Dwarfs Axe lets you do the same. Especially if you have a demo that keeps raging Scrakes, or anyone that keeps raging Fleshpounds. (Though at that point your team is probably effed in the a no matter what.)

Sure, if the Zerker is the last person alive, I can see the knockback being more helpful. But a few other people have mentioned how using the Claymore or the Fire Axe is the better choice because you don't need as many hits. We all know that Zerkers can easily clutch the wave if they take enough time. I don't see how a goofy weapon like this makes the class any more "overpowered" than it already is. I would imagine myself wanting that Zerker to clutch wave 9-10. Maybe that's just me. :(

I'm almost done with this glass of coke, so I'll just let my post trail off like this...
 
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#59
SkullFinder123 said:
Obviously its easier in testmap, it was just a demonstration. In actual play, the zerk can kite the fleshie while the rest of the team covers him. In other pub servers, the team just kills the fp without the need of the zerk.

When a zerk is going solo with a fp on his tail, all the zerk has to do is just slice out everyone else then focus on the fleshie when there's no one nearby to interfere

If a second fleshie appears, obviously the zerk is ****ed without backup

The gif did make me lol
Click to expand...
I consider sirens a bigger issue than a second fleshpound. Truth be told, a lone zerk cannot operate like this :

partyhard.gif


Believe it or not, there is an art to zerking. It is not easy to do unless you know exactly what you're doing. It requires knowledge and skill mastery as does any other classes extermination tactics. Even then, you still have to account for the random occurences of husk spam and random sirens. The Dwarf Axes' knockback should hardly be seen as functionally op. Unless you're in solo, any ping you have will not be your friend when it comes to keeping a fleshpound constantly knocked back without hitting you. Its kind of like hot potato, except the fleshpound is mashed potatos.
 
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#60
Arblarg said:
Believe it or not, there is an art to zerking. It is not easy to do unless you know exactly what you're doing. It requires knowledge and skill mastery as does any other classes extermination tactics. Even then, you still have to account for the random occurences of husk spam and random sirens. The Dwarf Axes' knockback should hardly be seen as functionally op. Unless you're in solo, any ping you have will not be your friend when it comes to keeping a fleshpound constantly knocked back without hitting you. Its kind of like hot potato, except the fleshpound is mashed potatos.
Click to expand...

The nice thing about spending time playing as a zerker is that you learn just about every zed animation. That really helps when you're playing other perks, such as using an Axe/ Katana when you're a Support Specialist. Playing zerk definitely takes getting used to at first, especially if you don't have outside advice on how to take down Scrakes and Fleshpounds and have to figure it out on your own.
 
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